View Poll Results: Is Deep State the natural state of the State?

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  • No

    1 9.09%
  • Yes

    8 72.73%
  • What?

    0 0%
  • Other

    2 18.18%
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Thread: Deep State as the natural state of the State.

  1. #31
    Natural state of man.

    Man thinks he's in control, and he'll prove it to you with aggression and deceit. Kinda been happening for a while now...
    gotta chain a government of men down, because... men.





    Oh, sorry google, too soon?
    Fear of man will prove to be a snare, but whoever trusts in the LORD is kept safe. Proverbs 29:25
    "I think the propaganda machine is the biggest problem that we face today in trying to get the truth out to people."
    Ron Paul

    Please watch, subscribe, like, & share, Ron Paul Liberty Report
    BITCHUTE IS A LIBERTY MINDED ALTERNATIVE TO GOOGLE SUBSIDIARY YOUTUBE



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The major (perhaps only) issue is who actually has power.

    I think there might be a problem with the formalist view, in that it conflates recognizing power structures with creating them.
    I wouldn't say that. I would say formalists like Moldbug want recognize how the state actually works so it can formalized and therefore run better and have actual good governance. Whether formalist prescriptions would lead to that is a different story. Regardless, hierarchy should be clear and easily identifiable, not bureaucratic.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    In theory perhaps but reality has never even come close to the theory.
    That's how most societies were throughout most of history. This mysterious, bureaucratic order where no one knows where the sovereignty really stops is a relatively recent phenomenon. All societies have aristocrats or oligarchs, but throughout history, most of them could be clearly identified because they were open about who they were. Liberal democracy doesn't have that.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    That's how most societies were throughout most of history. This mysterious, bureaucratic order where no one knows where the sovereignty really stops is a relatively recent phenomenon. All societies have aristocrats or oligarchs, but throughout history, most of them could be clearly identified because they were open about who they were. Liberal democracy doesn't have that.
    One kind of those who seek power has always sought the shadows, they understand that stealth is power, you will never be rid of them or force them out of the shadows.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    One kind of those who seek power has always sought the shadows, they understand that stealth is power, you will never be rid of them or force them out of the shadows.
    Soft power is a thing, of course, but I'm talking about statecraft. You can't eliminate figures who seek to influence the sovereign in surreptitious ways, but you can create a clear hierarchy that makes it clear just where the buck really stops.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    I wouldn't say that. I would say formalists like Moldbug want recognize how the state actually works so it can formalized and therefore run better and have actual good governance. Whether formalist prescriptions would lead to that is a different story. Regardless, hierarchy should be clear and easily identifiable, not bureaucratic.
    I have no practical objection to the formalist program.

    But there's a problem with the theory itself.

    If we reconcile the reality and appearance of power, without changing the reality, this serves no purpose; nothing happens.

    On the other hand, if this action changes the reality of power, then it isn't simply a matter of reconciling reality and appearance, is it?

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