Russia going to invade Israel?Originally Posted by phill4paul
Doubt that. Might lose a sub due to a "chain of tragic circumstances." Might lose some operatives here or there. Might just load Syria up with some S-400's and let them do the dirty work. Hard to tell. But, I'm pretty sure Putin lives for this kinda $#@!.
Well he did invade Georgia and Ukraine- and they didn't even attack him. Wouldn't surprise me. Peace loving kinda guy he is.
Will he attack Syria for shooting down one of his planes?
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-18-2018 at 05:10 PM.
Negotiations are underway to build a wall in Poland. Good news is that they are gonna pay for it.
Once Vlad converts Bibi to Russian Orthodox, he's be sucking up the Chorizo de Puercos grande.
Make America the Land of the Free & the Home of the Brave again
Elijah J. Magnier
Russia, USA, Israel, Iran and Syria: a continuous struggle to trigger or avoid war
https://ejmagnier.com/2018/09/18/rus...-or-avoid-war/
All the warnings said that will happen with so many war planes flying and hundreds of missiles being fired in middle east region.
►There is some good background and fact stating in this article...
Al-Masdar News
Russia officially blames #Israel for downing of IL-20 plane off Syrian coast
https://aml.ink/FJlYU
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-19-2018 at 07:45 AM.
===
Russia begins probe into downing of IL-20 aircraft off Syrian coast
https://aml.ink/wu3vN #IL20
Originally Posted by fatjohn
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-19-2018 at 04:36 PM.
Russian President Vladimir Putin’s response seemed timid and was at odds with statements from his Defense Minister Sergei Shoigu and more recent statements from Russia’s Foreign Ministry.
Putin backed off on explicitly blaming Israel for the downing of the IL-20 ELINT aircraft which killed 15 Russian servicemen, but made it clear he holds them responsible for the attack as a whole.
My thoughts on what the goals of the attack were are the focus of my latest article at Strategic Culture Foundation.
It was obvious to me that this attack was designed as a provocation to start World War III in Syria and blame the Russians for attacking a NATO member without proper cause, since the Syrian air defense forces were the ones responsible for shooting down the plane.
Lying us into war is a time-honored American political tradition, whether we’re talking Fort Sumter, Pearl Harbor or the Gulf of Tonkin. All of these incidents were avoidable by Presidents intent on getting into a conflict while simultaneously playing the victim card by getting the other side to shoot first.
I’m sorry if that is a controversial statement but the historical record on them is very, very clear.
From Strategic Culture:
The setup is pretty clear. Israel and France coordinated an attack on multiple targets within Syria without US involvement but with absolute US knowledge of the operation to provoke Russia into going off half-cocked by attacking the inconsequential French frigate which assisted Israel’s air attack.Now take that basic, honestly off-the-cuff, analysis of what happened and mix it with a skillful bit of decoding of Russia’s statements on the attacks by Fort Russ News and you have, I think, a pretty clear picture of what the intent was and why Putin seemed to downplay the event calling it a “… chain of tragic circumstances, because the Israeli plane didn’t shoot down our jet.”
Any denunciation of sinister intent by Israeli Defense Forces is hollow because if they had not intended to provoke a wider conflict they would have given Russia more than one minute to clear their planes from the area.
That would constitute an attack on a NATO member state and require a response from NATO, thereby getting the exact escalation needed to continue the war in Syria indefinitely and touch off WWIII.
This neatly bypasses any objections to a wider conflict by President Trump who would have to respond militarily to a Russian attack on a NATO ally. It also would reassert NATO’s necessity in the public dialogue, further marginalizing Trump’s attacks on it and any perceived drive of his for peace.
My hat is off to Joachin Flores for his analysis here. It is long and involved and worth your time to read. I will summarize it here. His thesis? Putin is trying to save Russian/French relations by not naming France as the culprit for the lost plane and the 15 men.
That Russia noted French missile launches but didn’t say what or who they hit. And before the Russians said anything about the attack the French denied they had any involvement in the attack.
Instead, Russia went along with the story the U.S. et.al. prepared in advance, which doesn’t fit what facts we know about the situation, that Syrian Air Defenses shot down the IL-20 by mistake.
Both the French denial and the U.S. statements about Syrian air defenses being the culprit came before anything official came from the Russians.
This is a classic “preparing the narrative” technique used by the West all the time. Seize the story, plant seeds of doubt and put your opponent into a rhetorical box they can’t wiggle out of with the truth.
MH-17, Skripal, Crimea, chemical weapons attacks in Ghouta, Douma etc. These operations are scripted.
And Flores is exactly right that this script was going off as planned with one small problem.
The Russians went along with it.
Russia, and Putin, did the one thing that makes this whole thing look like a frame job, it accepted the narrative of Israeli malfeasance in the interest of stopping a wider conflict by accusing and/or attacking a NATO member, France.
Flores makes the salient point that the S-200 friendly fire scenario is highly unlikely. That, in fact, France shot down the plane, was prepared to accept blame (which it did by preemptively denying it was involved) and destroy what was left of Russian/French relations.
Now Russia can use the excuse of Israeli betrayal as justification for upgrading Syria’s air defenses. Citing the very thing that caused the tragic death of their soldiers, antiquated air defense systems which didn’t properly identify friend from foe.
More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...e-attack-syria
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-19-2018 at 08:33 PM.
Ok,, But it looks like a burned out empty warehouse...Images reveal results of Israeli strike on Syria's Latakia
No sign of Collateral munitions evidence... also noticed on several strike videos. Single boom.
Ammo storage is generally multiple collateral explosions.
They hit mostly empty storage
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
that is far too complementary.lolz Charles Lister(wat a putz)
Last edited by pcosmar; 09-20-2018 at 09:46 AM. Reason: o
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Ron Paul 2004
Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
It's all about Freedom
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu vowed Tuesday that Israel would keep acting against its arch foe Iran in Syria, after a Russian aircraft was accidentally downed there by Syria during an Israeli missile strike.Netanyahu's office said he told Russian President Vladimir Putin by phone that "Israel is determined to stop Iranian military entrenchment in Syria, and the attempts by Iran, which calls for the destruction of Israel, to transfer to Hezbollah lethal weaponry (to be used) against Israel."
More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/israel-de...164212716.html
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Israel MoD blames 'unprofessional' Syrian military for shooting down Russian aircraft
https://aml.ink/EQGdC
Friend of Foe System not to blame for downing of Russian aircraft off Syrian coast: MoD
https://www.almasdarnews.com/article...ian-coast-mod/
The Saker: “Russian Response Options To The Latest Israeli Provocation”
https://southfront.org/the-saker-rus...i-provocation/
Over the past 24 hours the Internet, including this blog, have been flooded with opinion on what everybody and anybody would do if they were in Putin’s boots. Proposals range from declaring an no-fly zone over Syria to, I kid you not, send a couple of Russian SSBNs (subs which carry intercontinental ballistic missiles) off the coast of Israel. Furthermore, since Putin has failed, at least so far, to implement any retaliatory measures, the usual chorus of “Putin is a traitor” has been swamping my poor mods with sanguine expressions of disgust about Putin, Russia and yours truly :-)
I do realize that nothing I say would change the minds of this latter group, but for the rest of us in the real world, a short reality check might be helpful. So, here it is a a short bullet-point format.
Putin is absolutely right to take his time and not announce any immediate measures. Not only is this region of our planet extremely dangerous, he also needs the inputs of all the experts. In Russian we say that “haste is only needed when catching fleas”.
Furthermore, there *are* questions which need to be investigated. For example, the Russians have declared that the Russian air defenses and the Syrian ones have now been integrated. Most people don’t realize that an S-200 battery does not just fire by itself or by the decision of the crew. At the very least, this decision is taken by a air defense command post which evaluates the threats and allocates targets. There is a high probability that Russians were also involved in the chain of events which lead to the downing of the Il-20.
Declaring a no-fly zone over all of Syria is simply not in the current Russian capabilities. Like it or not, that is a fact. However, declaring an air exclusion zone over Khmeimim and Tartus is something the Russians could do, especially with the help of the Russian Navy ships near the Syrian coast and the Russian AWACS in the air (putting a pair of MiG-31BMs on combat air patrol over northern Syria would also be an option). The size of such an air exclusion zone over Russian forces would have to be very carefully agreed upon with all the relevant experts and lawyers (yes, Russia does care about international law).
So let’s not speculate about all this and wait for the Kremlin to take some kind of decision. Then we can evaluate it. Right now all these speculations are just a waste of time.
Also, speaking of Syria: has anybody noticed that the agreement between Turkey and Russia has removed any justification for a US attack on Syria and that the Israelis have organized their latest little bloody stunt right after this deal was announced?
Israel said on Thursday it would not halt strikes on Syria but would do more to “deconflict” them with Russian forces, after Moscow accused it of “irresponsible and unfriendly actions” that led to Syrian ground fire mistakenly downing a Russian plane.
Although Russian President Vladimir Putin initially described the downing as “tragic chance”, Moscow has made its anger clear.
“Moscow views as irresponsible and unfriendly actions of Israeli Air Force, which exposed Russian Il-20 aircraft to danger and led to death of 15 servicemen,” the Russian embassy in Tel Aviv said on Twitter in English, adding that Russia would “take all necessary measures to eliminate threat to life and security of our military fighting against terrorism”.
Israel has struck Syria scores of times during its seven-year civil war to prevent what it says are transfers of weapons to Hezbollah fighters and other Iranian allies. Russia has largely overlooked the sorties, which the Israelis say pose no direct threat to Moscow’s ally, President Bashar al-Assad.
Israel dispatched its air force chief to brief Moscow about the incident on Thursday. Expressing regret at the loss of life, Israel denied wrongdoing and blamed what it called wanton Syrian anti-aircraft fire after its jets had withdrawn back over the border.
Speaking to Army Radio, Defence Minister Avigdor Lieberman made clear that Israel would not halt attacks in Syria.
“We will do whatever is necessary to safeguard the security of Israel’s citizens ... and we will not hold these discussions over the airwaves,” he said.
But when pressed during the interview, Lieberman avoided asserting Israeli “freedom of action” over Syria, a term he has used in the past.
Naftali Bennett, another member of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s security cabinet, said “deconfliction mechanisms” would be improved, referring to a Russian-Israeli hotline designed to avoid inadvertent clashes with forces Moscow sent to Syria as part of a military intervention mounted in 2015.
“We will of course strengthen these mechanisms. We will do everything so as not to harm anyone we do not intend to, God forbid,” Bennett told Army Radio in a separate interview.
More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-m...-idUSKCN1M01J7
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
(apparently the crocodile tears bullshiit is 'not enough' of an apology nor policy change.)
Pro-Assad network of @AlmayadeenLive reports that Russia has rejected the Israeli report on the shooting down of the IL-20 in Syria
https://syria.liveuamap.com/en/2018/...e-reports-that
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-21-2018 at 09:37 AM.
I SUSPECT
►to me
this means DIRECT Israeli electronic warfare actions were (possibly) involved and are suspected in 'confusing' the Syrian and Russian air defense batteries.
If so...
it means Russian assets and lives are presently exposed and at risk AND THEREFORE
it would no longer be 'acceptable' to take Israel at their 'word'
but that a full on 'no fly zone' would be the only method remaining to gain the advantage against further Israeli air assaults.
Russian lives are at risk.
Do NOT trust Israel or any globalist promise or excuse.
They lie and deceive continually.
)
monitoring
@warsmonitoring
Intel from meeting in Moscow:
Russians are not interesting in Israel theories about Hezbollah, Iran, and Syrian responsibility for death of Il-20 crew.
Blame is on Israel for being there to strike some targets in a first place.
https://www.kp.by/daily/26885.7/3928752/
monitoring
@warsmonitoring
Surovikin made it clear that it was the actions of Israeli aviation that provoked the tragedy that day.
And reminded them of the words of Shoigu:
"The fault for the downed Russian plane and the death of the crew lies entirely on the Israeli side." This is our principled position.
monitoring
@warsmonitoring
Cooperation to continue, but serious adjustments to be made to the Russian-Israeli agreements (deconfliction line?) that were established three years ago.
Question about '1 minute warning' from Israelis before the strike were very unpleasant question for Israeli representatives.
----------
Big News if true
ELINT News
BREAKING: Russia to close airspace over Syria’s territorial waters after Sept 26 exercises end- Al-Mayadeen
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-22-2018 at 09:51 AM.
A minute-by-minute account of the Il-20 downing shows Israel's culpability and either its military bosses' lack of appreciation of relations with Moscow, or their control of commanding officers, the Russian defense ministry said.
https://www.rt.com/news/439150-russi...20-negligence/
Russia: Israel to blame for downed plane over Syria, deliberately misled us.
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-...d-us-1.6494034
Reconstruction of the Russian Il20 aircraft crash
MoD held a special briefing to provide detailed information on the crash of the Russian Il-20
Ali Özkök - علي أزكوك
Russia made Israel directly responsible for the downing of its Il-20 plane near Syria.
Last edited by goldenequity; 09-23-2018 at 10:47 AM.
(moar antisemitism)
Russian MoD warns against misrepresenting briefing on #Il20 downing, says other evidence proving Moscow's stance available
Russian MoD Has Compelling Evidence to Back Up Account of Il-20's Last Moments
https://sputniknews.com/world/201809...ssia-il20-idf/
The fault should be with whomever fired the missiles which hit the plane. Don't they track their target along with other possible items in the area? Know your target before you shoot. If you are shooting at a deer and hit your brother is it your brother's fault for getting too close to the deer?
It is interesting to see that Russia seems to let Israel do pretty much whatever they want to in Syria as long as they give advanced notice of what they are up to. In this case, the complaint seems to be that they didn't give enough notice.President Vladimir Putin later called it “ "It looks like a chain of tragic circumstances, because the Israeli plane didn't shoot down our jet," .”
When asked about comparisons to Turkey's downing of a Russian aircraft in 2015, Putin said: "This is a different situation. The Turkish fighter jet knowingly downed our plane."
https://gulfnews.com/opinion/thinker...game-1.2280402
Russia concerned about Iranian presence in Syria?Putin’s approach has always been based on the Kremlin’s desire to maintain the military presence it has enjoyed in Syria which dates back to the Cold War. The Iranians, by contrast, have a more ambitious plan, and believe that, in return for the heavy losses they and their Hezbollah allies have suffered in Syria, their reward should be to build a network of new military bases that enhances their ability to threaten Israel.
The Kremlin, though, has no interest in confronting Israel. On the contrary, Putin enjoys cordial relations with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, to the extent that, on several occasions in recent months, the Russians have given their tacit approval for air strikes against Iranian and Hezbollah positions in Syria. Furthermore, Tel Aviv has made it abundantly clear that it will not allow Iran and its Hezbollah proxies to establish a new network of offensive positions in Syria, and Israel’s uncompromising position could spell trouble for Putin’s love-in with the ayatollahs.
The tensions caused by Israel’s determination to prevent Syria from becoming another Lebanon, a base from which Iran can threaten the security of population centres, have already resulted in the accidental shooting down of a Russian aircraft.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-23-2018 at 01:15 PM.
More than one person can be at fault, Israel is at fault for not giving Russia sufficient notice and using the Russian plane as a shield.
Perhaps they are concerned about Iran or perhaps they just don't want to start WWIII by attacking Israel.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
That analogy is devoid of any semblance of common sense. This was not a deer hunt. Israel invaded Syria and was bombing the nation. It was self defense against a criminal assailant mass shooter. Had the evil mass shooter not invaded and attacked, there would be no need to shoot back at all.
So when a mass murdering shooter, invades a building and starts shooting up the place, and then intentionally uses a bystander as shield and the bystander as a result gets shot, by the Zippy logic the mass shooting home invader that initiated the violence bears no responsibility.
"Which idiotic county initiated this aggression?
Which Idiotic country intentionally started bombing Syria in the first place, without which none of this would have occurred? .
Which Idiotic country triggered Syria to launch missiles in self defense.
Which Idiotic country intentionally failed to notify Russia until 1 mintue before its attack, thereby deliberately preventing Russia from moving its planes out of the area.
Which Idiotic Country deliberately used the larger, slower Russian plane as a shield , intentionally drawing the missile toward it?
Last edited by AZJoe; 09-25-2018 at 08:01 PM.
"Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
"War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.
Know your target. Russian made missiles launched by their ally Syria shot down a Russian airplane. Even you boss says so.
President Vladimir Putin later called it “ "It looks like a chain of tragic circumstances, because the Israeli plane didn't shoot down our jet," .”
When asked about comparisons to Turkey's downing of a Russian aircraft in 2015, Putin said: "This is a different situation. The Turkish fighter jet knowingly downed our plane."
moved
Last edited by Swordsmyth; 09-25-2018 at 02:02 AM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Posting Permissions
Reply With Quote
Connect With Us