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Thread: US threatens to arrest ICC judges who probe war crimes

  1. #1

    US threatens to arrest ICC judges who probe war crimes



    US National Security Advisor John Bolton described the International Criminal Court as 'outright dangerous'
    US National Security Advisor John Bolton described the International Criminal Court as 'outright dangerous' (AFP Photo/WIN MCNAMEE)


    Washington (AFP) - The United States threatened Monday to arrest and sanction judges and other officials of the International Criminal Court if it moves to charge any American who served in Afghanistan with war crimes.

    White House National Security Advisor John Bolton called the Hague-based rights body "unaccountable" and "outright dangerous" to the United States, Israel and other allies, and said any probe of US service members would be "an utterly unfounded, unjustifiable investigation."

    "If the court comes after us, Israel or other US allies, we will not sit quietly," Bolton said.

    He said the US was prepared to slap financial sanctions and criminal charges on officials of the court if they proceed against any Americans.

    "We will ban its judges and prosecutors from entering the United States. We will sanction their funds in the US financial system, and we will prosecute them in the US criminal system," Bolton said.

    "We will do the same for any company or state that assists an ICC investigation of Americans."

    Bolton made the comments in a speech in Washington to the Federalist Society, a powerful association of legal conservatives.

    more..https://www.yahoo.com/news/us-threat...wer&soc_trk=tw
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?



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  3. #2
    Is this what "moving the ball in the right direction" looks like?
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #3
    You can never go wrong with too much liberty.

    Bolton, Giuliani and other anti-swamp MAGA has surrounded himself with are the best of the best America has to offer.

    War crimes trials can cause unnecessary complications when we are mainly trying to spread freedoms and demoacry to these '$#@!hole' countries people who probably can't even afford good NDA attorneys let alone war crimes lawyers.

  5. #4
    International Criminal Court unaccountable and outright dangerous ? Yes , I guess I agree with Bolton . I pretty well feel that way about courts in general , being in europe certainly is not going to improve that.
    Do something Danke

  6. #5

  7. #6
    ... cuz we can do no wrong?

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Is this what "moving the ball in the right direction" looks like?
    Effectively invalidating a world court? yeah. What, you want global government or something?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    Is this what "moving the ball in the right direction" looks like?
    Yes, the ICC is a globalist sovereignty destroying kangaroo court, the wars and crimes of the US and our "allies" are a problem but the ICC is not the answer, it is just another problem.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    ... cuz we can do no wrong?
    Cuz the UN is not and should not be the boss or judge of us or anyone else.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    #exceptionalism
    #Independence and #Sovereignty
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Actually , arresting ICC judges sounds like a helluva lot of fun . I could take one here to shovel some manure . That way taxpayers are not on the hook to feed them.
    Do something Danke

  14. #12
    3D chess move.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, the ICC is a globalist sovereignty destroying kangaroo court, the wars and crimes of the US and our "allies" are a problem but the ICC is not the answer, it is just another problem.
    Would you agree with sending George Bush or Donald Rumsfield to Iraq to face trial? If your answer is for them to be tried here, what is your proposed solution to the regime taking care of its predecessors (Obama Administration refusing to investigate Bush Administration, Trump Administration refusing to investigate Obama Administration, etc.)?

    How do you feel about people such as Manual Noriega facing trial in the US? Even the forcible extradition of said foreign national?

    Did you know the US frequently shelters foreign war criminals and terrorists and refuses to extradite them to the countries their crimes were committed?

    I am not in favor of the ICC, but at the very least, publicly branding war criminals as war criminals and making it harder for them to travel abroad seems okay. So long as we are not funding it, I don't really care. And as well, John Bolton, et. al. probably should be tried for war crimes.

    FFS, they 'erroneously' invaded Iraq resulting in some 1.5 million deaths, creating the modern Islamic State, and furthering humanitarian crises across the region.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Actually , arresting ICC judges sounds like a helluva lot of fun . I could take one here to shovel some manure . That way taxpayers are not on the hook to feed them.
    You must spread some reputation around before giving it to the merciless Injun savage again
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Would you agree with sending George Bush or Donald Rumsfield to Iraq to face trial?
    That is a difficult question that depends on the judicial culture of the foreign country in question, American citizens should not be handed over to governments that will violate their rights and fail to give them a fair trial.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    If your answer is for them to be tried here, what is your proposed solution to the regime taking care of its predecessors (Obama Administration refusing to investigate Bush Administration, Trump Administration refusing to investigate Obama Administration, etc.)?
    Elect better administrations, the odds are poor but they are better than a UN kangaroo court that is not accountable to American citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    How do you feel about people such as Manual Noriega facing trial in the US? Even the forcible extradition of said foreign national?
    Did they commit crimes against us? Will we respect their rights? Was the influence used to gain their extradition just and proportionate?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Did you know the US frequently shelters foreign war criminals and terrorists and refuses to extradite them to the countries their crimes were committed?
    We should put an end to that, but in cases where their guilt is in dispute we should try them here to decide whether or not to hand them over to any regime where their rights aren't guaranteed.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    I am not in favor of the ICC, but at the very least, publicly branding war criminals as war criminals and making it harder for them to travel abroad seems okay.
    It seems okay if you assume the UN is fair and impartial, since they are not we shouldn't allow them to come here on their witch hunts, if they find sufficient evidence to indict war criminals in countries where they are welcome and other countries make it harder for them to travel then that is the choice and responsibility of those other countries.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    So long as we are not funding it, I don't really care.
    I insist that we not fund it but I also do care to keep the witch hunters out of America for the reasons I have already given.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    And as well, John Bolton, et. al. probably should be tried for war crimes.
    Many should.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    Actually , arresting ICC judges sounds like a helluva lot of fun . I could take one here to shovel some manure . That way taxpayers are not on the hook to feed them.
    Sounds like you have a lot of $#@! to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people...



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Sounds like you have a lot of $#@! to deal with.
    I will get a load in special for any judges .
    Do something Danke

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Would you agree with sending George Bush or Donald Rumsfield to Iraq to face trial?
    for what? What crimes exactly are they accused of committing while they in Iraq?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    How do you feel about people such as Manual Noriega facing trial in the US? Even the forcible extradition of said foreign national?
    What crimes did Noriega commit while in the US?

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Did you know the US frequently shelters foreign war criminals and terrorists and refuses to extradite them to the countries their crimes were committed?
    In general I don't think the US should do that, but there are always exceptions.

    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    FFS, they 'erroneously' invaded Iraq resulting in some 1.5 million deaths, creating the modern Islamic State, and furthering humanitarian crises across the region.
    unless they actually did this themselves in Iraq, then all that matters is whether it was legal in the jurisdiction they were in. eg: the US.

  22. #19
    and what does the ICC say about the 15 Saudis that committed 9/11 and the victims families suit against the Saudi government? yeah I thought not.
    I just want objectivity on this forum and will point out flawed sources or points of view at my leisure.

    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 04/20/16
    There won't be a contested convention
    Quote Originally Posted by spudea on 05/30/17
    The shooting of Gabrielle Gifford was blamed on putting a crosshair on a political map. I wonder what event we'll see justified with pictures like this.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Would you agree with sending George Bush or Donald Rumsfield to Iraq to face trial?
    This question is too reckless and goes against our basic human rights stance, should never have ben asked.

  24. #21
    “If I were doing the Security Council today, I’d have one permanent member, the United States, because that’s the real reflection of the distribution of power in the world. All international laws are invalid, meaningless attempts to constrict American power.”
    — John Bolton

    if it was a dog
    I'd have to put it down. (even as it whimpered 'sovereignty, sovereignty').
    I'd do it to protect my children.
    It's raging, rabid, remorseless and blood thirsty. defiant. no reasoning.
    I'd probably do it with a mill stone.

    Last edited by goldenequity; 09-12-2018 at 07:50 AM.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post




    "If the court comes after us, Israel or other US allies, we will not sit quietly," Bolton said.


    There are some reports suggesting this stance may be related to below GOP-Jarvanka wing defended Israeli vioelnce against civilians of some non-chosen races:





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    Full transcript of US president’s Rosh Hashanah call to American Jewish leaders: ‘As we hear the Shofar’s sound this year, we have much to celebrate as a nation’

    By TOI staff 6 September 2018


    US President Donald Trump (right) alongside his son-in-law and senior adviser Jared Kushner during a meeting at the White House, February 23, 2017. (AFP Photo/Saul Loeb)

    US President Donald Trump held a 20-minute call with US Jewish leaders on September 6, 2108, to mark Rosh Hashanah. The following is the White House transcript of the conversation, which was hosted by Trump’s son-in-law and adviser, Jared Kushner.




    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pK9LWhsd3QI



    US blocks UN call for independent probe of Gaza protests
    16h ago

    Ivanka Trump and Kushner 'blessed' by top Israeli rabbi who compared black people to 'monkeys'

    However, this NYDN cover may have crossed the line:


    From:Trump to Close Palestine’s DC Office

  26. #23
    Maybe if we quit spreading death and destruction around the world the likes of John Bolton wouldn't have to be frightened about international courts coming after him and his neo con buddies. Just sayin'.
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  27. #24
    You can be against the ICC, there are good arguments for that. They are however not these.

    Wiki:
    The ICC has jurisdiction over these crimes in three cases: first, if they took place on the territory of a State Party; second, if they were committed by a national of a State Party; or third, if the crimes were referred to the Prosecutor by the UN Security Council.
    Not much risk of being prosecuted for US nationals who did something in Iraq it seems.


    Finally the General Assembly convened a conference in Rome in June 1998, with the aim of finalizing the treaty to serve as the Court's statute. On 17 July 1998, the Rome Statute of the International Criminal Court was adopted by a vote of 120 to 7, with 21 countries abstaining. The seven countries that voted against the treaty were China, Iraq, Israel, Libya, Qatar, the United States, and Yemen.[10] Israel’s vote against was due to the inclusion in the list of a war crimes of “the action of transferring population into occupied territory”.
    Especially the last bit is really nice. No, no, we're not against the court, we're just against the part that will go after us. Which I can understand, but it's not a particularly good argument to be against this court.
    "I am a bird"



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post

    Not much risk of being prosecuted for US nationals who did something in Iraq it seems.

    Especially the last bit is really nice. No, no, we're not against the court, we're just against the part that will go after us. Which I can understand, but it's not a particularly good argument to be against this court.
    ICC should have minded its own biz and stayed with investigating mostly African SWCs. Targetting our closest ally and only non-racist democracy in mideast or Iraqi freedom events will cross too many red lines.




  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    “If I were doing the Security Council today, I’d have one permanent member, the United States, because that’s the real reflection of the distribution of power in the world. All international laws are invalid, meaningless attempts to constrict American power.”
    — John Bolton

    if it was a dog
    I'd have to put it down. (even as it whimpered 'sovereignty, sovereignty').
    I'd do it to protect my children.
    It's raging, rabid, remorseless and blood thirsty. defiant. no reasoning.
    I'd probably do it with a mill stone.

    If Bolton was a dog I'd have him put down too, and I'd shoot the ICC dog in the head the same day.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    John Bolton vs. the International Criminal Court: A Simple Solution

    by Thomas Knapp Posted on September 12, 2018
    In a September 10 speech to the Federalist Society, National Security Advisor John Bolton offered “a major announcement on US policy toward the International Criminal Court.” The US government, per Bolton, considers the court “fundamentally illegitimate. … We will not cooperate with the ICC. We will provide no assistance to the ICC. We will not join the ICC.”

    Bolton threatened sanctions against the court and those who resort to it or cooperate with it in investigations of war crimes involving the United States or Israel. He also announced the first such sanction, closure of a Palestine Liberation Organization office in Washington in retaliation for the state of Palestine’s referral of charges against Israel for actions in the West Bank and Gaza.

    What’s with this sudden interest in the court and its jurisdiction?

    Why is Bolton suddenly so concerned with protecting notions of “sovereignty” (he uses the word nine times) that the US government itself routinely ignores at its convenience, claiming global jurisdiction over individuals and organizations outside its own borders in matters ranging from the 17-year “war on terror” to its financial regulation and sanctions schemes?

    The answer, in a word: Afghanistan. The regime installed by the US after its 2001 invasion of that country, and maintained in power by the US since then, ratified the Rome Statute in 2003. Crimes committed in Afghanistan since then, regardless of the perpetrators’ nationalities, therefore fall under the ICC’s jurisdiction.

    Bolton finds it unconscionable that an American – in particular an American soldier, sailor, airman, Marine, or politician – accused of crimes committed in Afghanistan might be tried in a court Afghanistan’s government has duly accepted the authority of. So much for “sovereignty.”

    Bolton wants it both ways. On one hand, the long arm of US law must reach everywhere, be it to a bank in Switzerland, to a hacker’s keyboard in the United Kingdom, or to a battlefield in the Middle East. On the other hand, no foreign arm of law must ever reach a US citizen, regardless of the alleged crime or where it was committed.

    Pretty messed up, but there’s a simple solution. All the US government has to do is close its embassies and consulates in, withdraw its troops from, and advise its citizens not to travel to, any of the 120-odd countries which recognize the International Criminal Court as their judicial authority for war crimes, genocide, and crimes against humanity.

    Starting with Afghanistan.

    Problem solved.

    https://original.antiwar.com/thomas-...mple-solution/
    "The Patriarch"

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Not going to happen.
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    The man did not think clearly. It was almost as if he had brain cancer of something.
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I missed out on the dick pills , they any good ?

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes, the ICC is a globalist sovereignty destroying kangaroo court, the wars and crimes of the US and our "allies" are a problem but the ICC is not the answer, it is just another problem.
    What is your solution? Or do you want US war crimes to go unpunished for all eternity? Cuz that's how it appears.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    What is your solution? Or do you want US war crimes to go unpunished for all eternity? Cuz that's how it appears.
    I address that in another post:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6679555

    And it would still be better to let them go unpunished by man than to enable a globalist sovereignty destroying kangaroo court.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I address that in another post:
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6679555

    And it would still be better to let them go unpunished by man than to enable a globalist sovereignty destroying kangaroo court.
    Unpunished by man, for all intents and purposes, is completely unpunished, as there is absolutely no evidence that any sort of "personal god" exists and engages in the judgment of human beings.

    Why do we punish people in the first place for wrongdoings? So that it will decrease the likelihood that similar wrongdoings will be done in the future. If no one will punish US leaders/generals/etc. for obvious war crimes against OTHER COUNTRIES, then they will continue to occur. What is the argument, anyways, against an international body governing disputes between countries? No one is advocating for the UN to prosecute criminals for things they committed within the borders of the US, unless you want to argue a slippery slope fallacy.

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