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Thread: Probiotics may not be that helpful – and could actually do some harm

  1. #1

    Probiotics may not be that helpful – and could actually do some harm

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/probiot...-do-some-harm/

    Probiotics may not be as helpful as you think – and may even be harmful in some cases. Researchers studying the human digestive tract found probiotics have questionable benefits and may delay the return of normal bacteria when taken on antibiotics.

    Probiotics are found naturally in products like yogurt, sauerkraut, and pickles, and probiotic supplements are widely marketed for their ability to maintain gut health. It's common for doctors to recommend taking probiotics, which are pills of live bacteria, during a course of antibiotics to counteract what antibiotics do, which is wipe out bacteria – both the good and the bad.

    The studies found that the types of bacteria found in probiotics would then start to dominate the G.I. tract and slow down the gut's natural ability to return to normal.

    "So it's not just it does no harm. It could actually delay recovery from antibiotics," CBS News medical contributor Dr. David Agus said.

    But it's not all bad news.

    "They took the normal bacteria out of individuals and made a pill of their own bacteria and they gave them to those people and those people recovered in days, versus up to six months when they took the probiotics. So we're going to have personalized pills of bacteria going forward and that's what's going to be exciting," Agus said.

    As for what the studies say about taking probiotics while you're not on antibiotics: There's no quick fix for a happy gut.

    "What it says is gut health is tremendously important. The data are right. It controls your brain, it controls your immune system, what you absorb from food, diabetes, all of those. But a simple pill isn't a quick fix to gut health. … There's complexity there. It's going to take a little while but gut health is going to be a way we prevent disease and treat disease in the future. But the simple fix of probiotics is now out the window."
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #2
    My normal bacteria and probiotics are the best of friends.
    Last edited by RonZeplin; 09-08-2018 at 12:48 PM.
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  4. #3
    Fermentation is the best probiotics.


    FOOD PRESERVATION THROUGH FERMENTATION
    https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/2...-fermentation/
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  5. #4
    What brand of probiotics did they use in the experiment?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What brand of probiotics did they use in the experiment?
    In a couple of stories I read they were saying yogurt, but commercial yogurt have been tested before and there not nearly enough beneficial bacteria to help out the gut. Activia was caught pushing that in their commercials, they had to stop.


    Fermentation is the best:

    Vaughn AR, Sivamani RK. Effects of Fermented Dairy Products on Skin: A Systematic Review. J Altern Complement Med. 2015 Jun 10.
    Carasi P, Racedo SM, Jacquot C, Romanin DE, Serradell MA, Urdaci MC. Impact of kefir derived Lactobacillus kefiri on the mucosal immune response and gut microbiota. J Immunol Res. 2015;2015:361604. doi: 10.1155/2015/361604.
    Cetojevic-Simin DD, Bogdanovic GM, Cvetkovic DD, Velicanski AS. Antiproliferative and antimicrobial activity of traditional Kombucha and Satureja montana L. Kombucha. J BUON. 2008 Jul-Sep;13(3):395-401.
    Szaefer H, Krajka-Kuniak V, Bartoszek A, Baer-Dubowska W. Modulation of carcinogen metabolizing cytochromes P450 in rat liver and kidney by cabbage and sauerkraut juices: comparison with the effects of indole-3-carbinol and phenethyl isothiocyanate. Phytother Res. 2012 Aug;26(8):1148-55. doi: 10.1002/ptr.3692.
    Park KY, Jeong JK, Lee YE, Daily JW 3rd. Health benefits of kimchi (Korean fermented vegetables) as a probiotic food. J Med Food. 2014 Jan;17(1):6-20. doi: 10.1089/jmf.2013.3083.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  7. #6
    More details: http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/d-.../#.W5QqfkZKiUk

    In two papers released in the journal Cell, researchers from The Weizmann Institute of Science examined how the 11 most widely used bacteria strains found in probiotics affect us.

    In one study, the team tested the microbiomes of 25 people to see what their natural composition of gut bacteria was. Then, 15 of them — about half the group — got divvied up into two groups: one that received a mix of the 11 bacteria strains and another that just got a placebo treatment. In both of these groups, the doses came in pills that participants took twice a day for four weeks. (The second half of the 25 was the control group and didn’t get anything.)

    After checking in on the participants’ microbiomes around the three-week mark and following them for about two months, the team found that most everyone’s microbiomes were different, no matter which treatment group they were in. But generally, some people fell into what the researchers call “persisters.” These folks’ guts were a lot friendlier to the probiotics, allowing the bacteria to stick around and colonize, changing their microbiome. Others, though, were so-called “resisters” who, as you’d guess from the moniker, didn’t have much luck getting their probiotic bacteria to take up residence.

    Adding Antibiotics to the Equation
    But what about taking probiotics post-antibiotics? Does it do any good?

    To find out, researchers set up a second study where they gave antibiotics to 21 people split into three groups. People in the first group didn’t get anything, leaving their gut flora to recover on its own. The second group got the 11-strain probiotic mix over four weeks. And members of the third group got the pleasant little gift of receiving a fecal transplant of their own stool, samples of which were taken before they went on antibiotics.

    For the volunteers in group two, the probiotics had a much easier time making themselves at home, thanks to the antibiotics clearing out the natural gut bacteria. But it turns out the new residents made things difficult for the original tenants; it took months for people’s natural microbes to return to pre-antibiotic levels. Only those lucky few who’d gotten a fecal transplant saw things return to normal quickly; for them, it only took a few days for their gut flora to reestablish themselves.

    Together, the studies support the idea that “that probiotics should not be universally given to the public as a ‘one size fits all’ supplement,” says Eran Elinav, an immunologist at the Weizmann Institute, in a press release. In the future, it seems we need to focus on treating people’s microbiomes at an individual level. For post-antibiotic treatment in particular, Elinav continues, “personalized treatment — replenishing the gut with one’s own microbes—was associated with a full reversal of the drugs’ effects.”
    First study: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...ecsectitle0075

    Second study: https://www.cell.com/cell/fulltext/S...674(18)31108-5
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-08-2018 at 02:12 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  8. #7
    One day something is good for you. The next it's not. The next week it is and then it is not. Fug it. Everything in moderation. Except when you feel like excess.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    One day something is good for you. The next it's not. The next week it is and then it is not. Fug it. Everything in moderation. Except when you feel like excess.
    Things just get over-sold. A product gets labeled either a miracle or deadly. It will make you younger, fight cancer, live longer. Or it will cause cancer and kill you. Great for click bait. Both are usually wrong- often because the amounts of the item are not big enough for the promised effect. You would have to consume/ use massive amounts which has other issues. Everything has good properties and bad ones.

    As you say, moderation in everything is the key. And variety.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-08-2018 at 06:55 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Things just get over-sold. A product gets labeled either a miracle or deadly. It will make you younger, fight cancer, live longer. Or it will cause cancer and kill you. Great for click bait. Both are usually wrong- often because the amounts of the item are not big enough for the promised effect. You would have to consume/ use massive amounts which has other issues. Everything has good properties and bad ones.

    As you say, moderation in everything is the key. And variety.
    Sounds like Big pHARMa sale ad's-- the only problem with that is you can't take what is prescribed in moderation. Then they give you another pill to help the problem that the other pill caused and before you know it your on ten pills.
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Fermentation is the best probiotics.


    FOOD PRESERVATION THROUGH FERMENTATION
    https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/2...-fermentation/

    donnay wins the debate and zippy loses:

    https://kresserinstitute.com/rhr-res...ora-long-term/


    4 reasons somebody may not be able to tolerate fermented foods or probiotics

    Chris Kresser: Yeah, absolutely. We got a question from – I can’t remember where it was from, maybe Facebook or sent in through the contact form, and it was how to restore gut flora and function when unable to tolerate probiotics and fermented foods not likely due to histamine allergy. This is a great question, it’s one that I get a lot, and it turns out there are several potential reasons why somebody may not be able to tolerate fermented foods or probiotics, and one of them is histamine intolerance, which the questioner mentioned in the question.

    Fermented foods tend to be very high in histamine, and some people have either a genetic mutation that impairs their production of the enzyme that breaks down histamine. Other people have disruptions in the gut flora, which makes them less able to tolerate histamine, and so when they eat fermented foods like cheese or yogurt or sauerkraut or wine or vinegar, they experience all kinds of different symptoms ranging from headaches to hives, skin issues, fatigue, bloodshot eyes, nausea, all of which are mediated by histamine, which is what is involved in the kind of allergic response, like if you get stung by a bee. So that’s one possible reason that people don’t tolerate fermented foods, although that wouldn’t necessarily cause an intolerance of probiotics.

    Another potential reason is SIBO, small intestinal bacterial overgrowth, because SIBO sometimes involves an overgrowth of certain types of bacteria that produce lactic acid, and Lactobacillus acidophilus is one of those kinds of bacteria, and that’s frequently included in probiotics, and it’s also in fermented foods. So if you have SIBO, you have an overgrowth of this kind of bacteria, and then you take probiotics or fermented foods, you could actually end up making yourself worse. I’ve seen that a lot, and actually sometimes intolerance of probiotics is one red flag for me that makes me want to look for SIBO and other gut issues.


    Have you seen that as well, Steve?

    Steve Wright: Yeah, it’s been in a lot smaller population from the case studies and what we’ve seen. It seems like maybe – I don’t know what it is, but it definitely seems like a minority of people who can’t tolerate the lactobacillus strains who have SIBO. Before you were kind of talking about this, sort of our go-to had been a lactobacillus strain that was very pure, and we had seen a lot of good results, but we had seen some reactions to it. As far as my digging goes, there seems to be an issue with the clearance of D-lactate, like a genetic potentially or an environmental trigger that happens. I think it’s interesting. It’s definitely developing. I think, like you said, if you’re having a probiotic intolerance, there is digging to be done there, and there is definitely something going on.

    Chris Kresser: Yeah. From what I’ve seen, it depends on the type of bacteria that’s overgrown in SIBO. It also depends on the specific nature of the dysbiosis. You could have not enough good bacteria and too much bad bacteria, and that can cause probiotic intolerance. I’ve seen gut infections cause probiotic intolerance, like parasite infections, particularly. Inflammatory bowel disease can cause probiotic intolerance because in some cases in IBD people react negatively to their own commensal gut bacteria, the bacteria that’s normally in their gut, and if you introduce new bacteria to a really inflamed gut, that can also be problematic even if those bacteria are beneficial.

    Steve Wright: Especially if you’re somebody who’s really messed up with a really bad leaky gut where you’re reacting to most all the foods out there when you introduce a probiotic strain sometimes. Jordan, for instance, actually had to start with, like, one strand of sauerkraut.

    Chris Kresser: Yeah, exactly, and we’re going to get to that. I have my own story about that, too.

    The last thing is FODMAP intolerance. People who are sensitive to FODMAPs, I’ve found, can sometimes be more sensitive to probiotics and fermented foods.

    Now, here’s the really tricky thing or the catch-22 about this, which is generally the extent to which you react adversely to probiotics and fermented foods and prebiotics, which we’re going to talk about in a second, is roughly proportionate to how screwed up your gut is. In other words, the more strongly you react to these things, the more likely it is that you need them over the long term, and that’s the tricky thing about working with these situations because it’s always a dance between addressing the short-term issue, like symptom alleviation, making somebody feel better and comfortable, and then making sure that you’re progressing and dealing with the long-term problem, and that always involves restoring healthy gut flora.

    Steve Wright: Have you seen that with FODMAPs, Chris? That’s an experience that I’ve seen, is that the more intolerant you are to FODMAPs, typically the more messed up you are and that that intolerance alleviates over time as everything improves.

    Chris Kresser: Absolutely. That’s absolutely true, and the same principle applies there with FODMAPs and prebiotics. Most people who have a screwed-up gut are really sensitive to prebiotics and FODMAPs, but fermentable fibers, which is what FODMAPs are and prebiotics are, are absolutely crucial to restoring healthy gut flora over the long term. In fact, I’ve mentioned this before, but the most recent research has shown that probiotics do not quantitatively affect levels of beneficial bacteria in the gut. So you could take probiotics all day long, and it’s not going to increase the levels of certain bacteria like bifidobacteria and lactobacilli over the long term.

    Probiotics seem to have more of an immunoregulatory effect, so you take probiotics, they have a tuning and regulating effect on the immune system and the gut immune system, which is incredibly beneficial and important, but they don’t necessarily fill up the tank, so to speak, in terms of the beneficial bacteria you have in your gut. That’s what prebiotics, fermentable fibers, do,
    things like resistant starch, non-starch polysaccharides like inulin and fructooligosaccharides and galactooligosaccharides, those kinds of things. They provide food for the beneficial bacteria in your gut and can increase their levels by orders of magnitude.


    So it’s another catch-22 where you have someone with FODMAP intolerance who can’t handle any kind of fermentable fiber or prebiotics, where in my work with them I will very, very gradually introduce those things over time so that eventually they become less intolerant of FODMAPs and fermentable fiber because their gut flora is in a better situation.

    How to improve your tolerance for fermentable fiber and probiotics

    Here are the basic steps that I would use in this situation: The first thing would be, if possible – and I know this isn’t always possible – hook up with a functional medicine provider and get some testing done to see if you have SIBO, dysbiosis, gut infections, FODMAP intolerance, etc., because knowing what you’re dealing with can really accelerate things in terms of what kind of treatment you want to do. But even if you can’t do that and if you do, do that and you find you have some SIBO or overgrowth of bacteria in your gut, you can do a herbal, botanical antimicrobial protocol for SIBO. I’m going to be writing a post on this soon, but I just came across a study which I was really excited about that showed that botanical protocols are more effective than Rifaximin, which is the drug of choice for SIBO, and not only are they more effective, they’re, of course, much safer, they don’t tend to produce as many side effects, nor do they have as negative of an impact on the gut flora, and they’re even effective in people who have done Rifaximin and haven’t had success with it. This is exciting, and it means that a lot of the herbal preparations out there – there are many different varieties. There’s GI-Synergy or H-PLR from Apex, which I use a lot in my practice. Pretty much every major brand name like Thorne or Pure Encapsulations or Apex or Innate Response – all of these companies that are high quality supplement manufacturers have an antimicrobial protocol with many of the same botanicals in them, and these can be effectively used in many cases to deal with SIBO.


    That’s the first step. You find out what’s going on. The second step is you can use a protocol to knock back some of the bacteria in the small intestine that may be making you intolerant of these probiotics.

    Steve Wright: Chris, I have to jump in really quick.

    Chris Kresser: Yeah.

    Steve Wright: I just want to add in that there’s a really sexy – just coming from my own experience, and maybe you can relate to this – but there’s a sexy idea here that somebody’s going to be able to just execute these protocols with skipping step one and just going to step two and treating. And while I guess I’m saying that’s not the worst case in the world, I would caution and say that in my own health history as well as a lot of the people that I’ve worked with, SIBO doesn’t just grow by itself. When you have a really messed-up gut and therefore the more intolerant you are to a lot of these things that we’re talking about here today, the higher the likelihood that you have a deeper infection that maybe a general SIBO protocol is not going to take away. Especially those of you who are super sensitive, don’t skip over step one, which is getting testing and working with somebody who gets this stuff.

    Chris Kresser: Yeah, I wish it was easier for people to find someone to work with because I often hear from people when I go speak elsewhere – you know, I just did a one-day seminar with Robb in New Jersey, and so many people came up and said, how can I find someone who has this kind of perspective to work with? It’s really difficult. I’ve been trying for a long time, and it just seems impossible. So I totally agree, Steve. For sure, the ideal would be to find a practitioner like that, and I also know that that’s not possible for a lot of people.

    And I think that many of the botanical protocols are generally safe, and even if you don’t necessarily get to the full root of the problem with it, you might get some improvement.

    I’ve also talked about Lauricidin, which I like, on the show before, and then there are some prebiotics and probiotics, and we’ll talk about that in a second.
    From a dietary perspective, a low FODMAP diet can be really helpful. If you’re not tolerating probiotics or fermented foods, it’s likely you have FODMAP intolerance or dysbiosis of some kind, and a paleo version of a low FODMAP diet can be really helpful.

    Now, in terms of probiotics and prebiotics, as I said, even though taking them in normal doses might cause problems initially, that doesn’t mean that you don’t want to take them at all and that you should just write them off forever. What I suggest instead is starting at an extremely low dose and building up very, very slowly over time. Steve just mentioned that Jordan had to start with, like, a single strand of sauerkraut. Some people even just start with a tiny bit of the juice from the sauerkraut, like maybe a half a teaspoon of the juice once a day. When I was really restoring my gut, I started with a half of a teaspoon of kefir, and it took my nine months to build up to the point where I could have a full cup of kefir a day.

    Now I could drink, you know, three glasses of kefir in a day and feel great, but it was rough initially. I had a lot of reactions, there was a lot of starting and stopping, two steps forward, one step back, and unfortunately that’s just how it often has to be to begin with when you’re dealing with a situation like this because you’re really dramatically changing the composition of your gut flora, and because the gut flora affects virtually everything, that can produce a lot of different symptoms. So I suggest starting with very low doses, being methodical about it. One of the mistakes I often see in my practice is people will get excited, understandably, about being able to tolerate more and they’ll go too quickly, so just be very slow and methodical about it.

    Steve Wright: Just to kind of differentiate here because we’re speaking on Jordan’s story with sauerkraut, your story on kefir, and we’ve also mentioned probiotics and prebiotics, is there a pattern that we should look for, because for instance, kefir might be a worse choice due to potentially the milk casein issue. Sauerkraut, you’re dealing with a FODMAP for sure, so the source of the fermented food has a role here, and then, of course, there’s also choosing a standardized commercialized product.

    Chris Kresser: Yeah.

    Steve Wright: Do you have sort of any thoughts on differentiating which one to start with?

    Chris Kresser: I don’t think there’s really much of a FODMAP issue with sauerkraut because the sugar in cabbage is what is the FODMAP component, and when sauerkraut is made that sugar is consumed mostly by the bacteria, so there shouldn’t be much sugar left in cabbage, which means that it wouldn’t really be a FODMAP anymore, so I do think sauerkraut is a good starting place for a lot of people for that reason. Dairy kefir, as you pointed out, can be problematic if people are intolerant of the proteins; however, if you have lactose intolerance, dairy kefir is not an issue if you make it at home and you ferment it for at least 24 hours because all of the lactose will be gone, and in fact, there are some studies which suggest that you can cure lactose intolerance or at least significantly improve it by consuming fermented dairy products like yogurt and kefir. So if you know that the dairy proteins aren’t a problem for you, as I did, then dairy kefir can actually be very healing. Another option is water kefir. You can get water kefir grains from someone like CulturesForHealth.com, and you just make it with sugar and water. The cultures consume all of the sugar, and then you can flavor it with a little bit of fruit, and that has a very therapeutic effect as well. Beet kvass is another great fermented beverage that I’ve found to be pretty therapeutic, and then, yes, you get into the commercial probiotics.

    My experience, especially over the last year, is that a lot of people who don’t tolerate lactic acid-based probiotics do tolerate soil-based organisms and often very well, and I know you guys have had the same experience. I’ve talked to a lot of colleagues who have had the same experience. Prescript-Assist, which is the product that I sell in my store, is by far my favorite right now as a general use product, and I think it’s safe to use in SIBO. It works well for people with constipation, and those people often tend to be the ones who don’t respond well to probiotics. It also works well for people with loose stools or diarrhea, too, but it’s really versatile and really safe and well tolerated and really effective, which is why I find myself using it a lot.

    If you’ve tried other kinds of probiotics and fermented foods and you don’t react well to those, you could start with Prescript-Assist, but instead of taking two capsules a day, which they recommend on the bottle to start with, you would take maybe a third of a capsule. You actually open the capsule, pour a third of it in a little bit of water or just directly into your mouth – it tastes fine – and take it that way and then just gradually build up to one capsule, then gradually build up to two capsules and stay on that dose for maybe two to three months therapeutically, and then you can go back down to one capsule as a maintenance dose. You can, of course, do that same approach with any kind of probiotic, but if you’re having trouble tolerating them, I definitely would recommend starting with something like Prescript-Assist. [Update: Chris no longer uses Prescript-Assist and recommends Primal Probiotics instead.]

    Is it better to eat fermentable fibers in whole food, or is it better to use supplements?

    This brings us to the same question that you asked, Steve, about prebiotics: Is it better to eat fermentable fibers in whole food, or is it better to use supplements? Well, over the long term, I think, you’ll probably guess what my answer is. I think it’s better to get it from food. But in the short term, I actually find that it’s easier to use supplements to start, and the reason for that is that prebiotics tend to really cause problems for people who have a screwed-up gut, and I’ve found that it’s easier to adjust the dose and build up really slowly and cautiously over time with a prebiotic powder than it is to do with food.

    It’s just harder to control the exact amount of prebiotic fibers you’re getting when you’re eating whole foods than it is using a powder. We’ve talked about resistant starch as one potential prebiotic that you could use to do this, and potato starch is the version that’s most often used, and then there are things like Prebiogen, which I also sell in my store, which is a blend of non-starch polysaccharides, and I actually recommend that people use both because they stimulate the growth of different kinds of bacteria in the gut. Resistant starch will stimulate growth of a certain type of groups of bacteria, and then the non-starch polysaccharides will have an effect on other types of bacteria.

    But let me remind you again that starting at the full dose which is often recommended, like one or two tablespoons twice a day, is absolutely not advised for people with gut issues! I just talked to another patient last week who ended up in the hospital because she was so certain that she was having appendicitis or some major issue in her gut, and what had happened is she had started taking one tablespoon twice a day of resistant starch, and on the second or third day, she was curled up in a ball on the floor for hours until she went to the hospital. It turned out it was just gas pains that were causing that pain.

    They can be super, super intense, and some people who are listening might have experienced this. That really triggered a flare for her that lasted about two and a half or three weeks. That’s not a typical response, but I just tell you that story to emphasize the importance of starting slowly with any prebiotics. I would say, like, a half of an eighth of a teaspoon, like, a sixteenth of a teaspoon, an eighth of a teaspoon, and then just really, really slowly build up over time. That way, I think, you’ll eventually get to reach the goal, but it could take months or even years to finally get to where you’re going, but you’ll see improvement all along the way, so that’s the bright side.
    https://kresserinstitute.com/rhr-res...ora-long-term/
    Last edited by dannno; 09-08-2018 at 08:58 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    " In fact, I’ve mentioned this before, but the most recent research has shown that probiotics do not quantitatively affect levels of beneficial bacteria in the gut. So you could take probiotics all day long, and it’s not going to increase the levels of certain bacteria like bifidobacteria and lactobacilli over the long term."

    Pretty much what the OP article says.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-08-2018 at 09:16 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #12

    Cool

    Ate the 30Billion 12 strain Ultimate FLORA & 10Billion 10 strain Spring Valley probiotics.

    Feelin' Groovy.
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    " In fact, I’ve mentioned this before, but the most recent research has shown that probiotics do not quantitatively affect levels of beneficial bacteria in the gut. So you could take probiotics all day long, and it’s not going to increase the levels of certain bacteria like bifidobacteria and lactobacilli over the long term."

    Pretty much what the OP article says.
    Funny how you missed the biggest print in the whole article:

    Probiotics seem to have more of an immunoregulatory effect, so you take probiotics, they have a tuning and regulating effect on the immune system and the gut immune system, which is incredibly beneficial and important
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    Anything you take in pill form that is supposed to enhance the natural ability of the body that produces it ends up screwing the body up. The body/brain are very efficient. Once you start providing something to the body the brain recognizes it is there and adjusts the natural production. Give the body serotonin via pill and brain stops making serotonin.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Anything you take in pill form that is supposed to enhance the natural ability of the body that produces it ends up screwing the body up. The body/brain are very efficient. Once you start providing something to the body the brain recognizes it is there and adjusts the natural production. Give the body serotonin via pill and brain stops making serotonin.
    of course your body doesnt' actually produce bacteria, so not really relevant.

  18. #16
    Recent research PROVES that a gut imbalance destroys your liver; probiotics found to help protect

    Thursday, September 13, 2018 by: RJ Jhonson

    Don’t underestimate the tiny organisms living in your gut. These bacteria not only affect your ability to digest your food, they can also make or break your chances of contracting and developing liver disease.

    Recent studies demonstrate the vast importance of a well-balanced microbiome, the microorganisms that call your gut home. Imbalance in the gut has been linked to increased risks, as well as actual diseases, including Type 2 diabetes, obesity, cardiovascular disease, neurodegenerative disease, and cancer. And to drive home the importance of gut bacteria, a number of studies add yet another item to this list – liver disease.

    A study at Johns Hopkins University in 2003 found that gut microbiome has an impact on the development of non-alcoholic fatty liver disease (NAFLD). Normally, the excessive use of alcohol causes the accumulation of fat in the liver. In the case of NAFLD, fat accumulates because of factors besides too much alcohol. The condition can lead to various diseases and is linked to heart disease and stroke.

    The researchers at Johns Hopkins found that intestinal bacteria played an important role in hepatic insulin resistance related to liver disease. After feeding mice with a high-fat diet, they discovered that that bacteria in the animals’ intestine converted choline into methylamines. Choline is a chemical that is key to the metabolism of fat.

    The loss of choline means that the body is unable to transport fat from the liver, causing it to accumulate in the organ instead. The study confirmed that by improving the balance of gut microbiome, insulin resistance can be minimized and the occurrence of too much fat in the liver can be prevented.

    But how do you make this balance possible? A good way to ensure that your gut is populated with friendly bacteria is by taking probiotics. (Related: Probiotic twice a day zaps ‘bad’ cholesterol, could prevent heart disease.)

    About 85 percent of the bacteria in your intestine are “good” bacteria. Over time, however, you lose them gradually because of a number of factors, including aging and the use of antibiotics. Probiotics are friendly bacteria which you ingest in various edible forms so they can colonize your gut and re-invigorate your microbiome population.

    Eating these probiotic foods is good for your gut and your general well-being:

    Yogurt – This is made from milk that has been fermented by bifidobacteria and lactic acid bacteria. It has all the benefits of milk – improving the health of your bones and helping control your blood pressure – but may be better for people with lactose intolerance. However, not all types of yogurt are created equal. In buying yogurt, go for types that have live or active cultures. Avoid low-fat and fat-free varieties, too, as these tend to have high amounts of sugar.

    Kimchi – This side dish is made from fermented vegetables and a variety of seasonings, including chili, garlic, ginger, salt, and scallion. Its ingredients and how it’s made give it its characteristic pungent odor and strong taste. It is a good source of vitamins and minerals, as well as lactic acid bacteria for your gut.

    Kombucha – This is black or green tea fermented with both yeast and bacteria. Some studies point to possible health benefits, but its fermentation process gives it strong probiotic properties.

    Pickles – These preserved cucumbers are a great source of vitamin K and other minerals, as well as lactic acid bacteria. When buying pickles, make sure to look at the ingredient list to determine if it contains live bacteria or not. Pick ones that were preserved in water and salt, as those that were made with vinegar don’t offer probiotic benefits.

    Sauerkraut – This is cabbage fermented by lactic acid bacteria. It is a popular side dish in many European countries. Besides its probiotic benefits, it also contains plenty of antioxidants, vitamins, and minerals.

    Learn how you can live longer with the right nutrients at Longevity.news.

    Sources include:

    NaturalHealth365.com

    MedicineNet.com

    Healthline.com
    https://naturalnews.com/2018-09-13-r...zen.yandex.com
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens



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  20. #17
    Could probiotics cut our need for antibiotics? Study finds children who take a daily supplement are 30% less likely to need the drugs

    By MIA DE GRAAF HEALTH EDITOR FOR DAILYMAIL.COM
    PUBLISHED: 15:49 EDT, 14 September 2018

    Probiotics could help in the fight against antibiotic resistance, a new study suggests.

    Researchers in the US, UK and Netherlands reviewed 12 studies on the health outcomes of infants and children who received a daily probiotic supplement.

    The US lead author Daniel Merenstein, of George Washington University, admits they were somewhat surprised by 'how strong the findings were' showing that those who took probiotics did not need as many antibiotics.

    The study is one of the first to probe this connection, but Dr Merenstein and his colleagues in Cambridge and Utrecht insist it offers exciting prospects as the medical community grapples for ways to slow antibiotic resistance.

    Antibiotic resistance is widely acknowledged as the most critical issue facing modern medicine.

    The overuse of these drugs has allowed dangerous viruses and bugs to become acquainted with their defense mechanisms.

    Increasingly, bugs are getting savvier, adapting and mutating in ways that are even difficult to quash with combinations of antibiotics.

    Dr Merenstein, director of the research division for family medicine, has been studying antibiotic resistance for years, looking at prevention strategies and trying to uncover alternatives.

    In the last few years, during trials and panels, probiotics have come into his sphere.

    'One thing I always get asked is: "should healthy people take probiotics?" So we invited different people from around the world to have this discussion, to look at the data. We thought this was the first good [area] to look at, because of antibiotic resistance.'

    Probiotics are live bacteria, microorganisms found throughout the human body and in other things, like fermented food products. Though probiotics are hardly a recent phenomenon, 20th century Russian zoologist Elie Metchnikoff is credited as the first to have suggested that they could benefit human health in 1907.

    Fast-forward a century, and it's hard to walk through a pharmacy or a supermarket without seeing stacks of milks, yogurt drinks, and bottles of tablets marketed as being 'filled with probiotics'.

    More and more, we're told to consume them as much as possible, in part due to the recent boom in research on gut microbiota.

    Research is still in its early phases but scientists are coming to understand that each person's individual make-up of gut bacteria can affect everything from their sleeping patterns to brain health to (as is key for Dr Merenstein's study) immunity.

    'Obviously antibiotic resistance is a huge problem,' Dr Merenstein told DailyMail.com when the study was released on Friday in the European Journal of Public Health.

    'We'd seen results like this before, how probiotics decrease gastrointestinal and respiratory illnesses, but I was interested to see how it affected [antibiotic resistance].'

    The results were stark - more, even, than Dr Merenstein and his colleagues had expected.

    Gathering data from 12 studies, they found infants and children were 29 percent percent less likely to have been prescribed antibiotics if they were already taking a daily dose of probiotic supplements.

    They then cut down the quota, to only include the more rigorous studies. In that selection, the correlation was even stronger: kids were 53 percent less likely to need antibiotics if they were taking probiotics.

    Dr Merenstein cautions that this is merely the first study to show such a connection, and more studies are needed.

    And when it comes to probiotics, as most in the field agree, this is still an imperfect solution. The goal with all areas of medicine is that it should be individualized.

    A group of Israeli researchers, who are pioneering much of the world's gut health research at the moment, have published two acclaimed studies showing that our approach to administering probiotics is flawed: each person's make-up of bacteria is different, so getting everyone to dose up on a general cocktail of bacteria may work for some but not for others.

    Dr Merenstein agrees, but he says that the reality is 'we're still really far off' from having a technique to map each person's microbiome and match them to their ideal probiotics.

    'For diet, for exercise, for drugs, we think that everything should be individualized, but aside from something like cancer drugs, it's just not possible yet,' he said.

    'We can't be very specific yet. If someone asks "which probiotic should I take?" We don't have the answer to that. Should it be one strain or multiple strains? We don't know. So, until we are there, we have to say that, based on this data, a blanket approach appears to work.'
    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...tibiotics.html
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens



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