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Thread: Trump ready to ratchet up China trade war with more tariffs

  1. #1

    Trump ready to ratchet up China trade war with more tariffs

    https://www.nasdaq.com/article/trump...20180830-00957

    Next round of tariffs could hit in one week. Comment period ends September 6th.

    WASHINGTON, Aug 30 (Reuters) - U.S. President Donald Trump is prepared to quickly ramp up a trade war with China and has told aides he is ready to impose tariffs on $200 billion more in Chinese imports as soon as a public comment period on the plan ends next week, Bloomberg News reported on Thursday.

    The White House declined comment on the Bloomberg report, which cited six unidentified sources, and deflated markets. The S&P hit session lows, and the U.S. dollar, Chinese yuan and U.S. Treasury yields also fell.

    The world's two largest economies have already applied tariffs to $50 billion of each other's goods in a tit-for-tat trade war. Talks aimed at easing tensions ended last week without major breakthroughs.

    The new proposed 25 percent tariffs would affect consumer products including home building supplies, technology products, bicycles and apparel.

    A public comment period on the proposal is set to end on Sept. 6, and Trump plans to impose the tariffs after that deadline, Bloomberg said.

    Some sources said Trump had not made his final decision, the Bloomberg report said. Trump administration officials have been divided over how hard to push Beijing.

    Trump, who has threatened to impose duties on virtually all of the more than $500 billion of Chinese goods exported to the United States each year, told Reuters in an interview earlier this month that resolving the trade war with China would "take time" and that he had "no time frame" for ending it.

    The report on Trump's China stance coincides with U.S. negotiators pushing to hammer out a deal with Canadian counterparts to overhaul the North American Free Trade Agreement.



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  3. #2
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    ..
    I see you learned what a GIF is.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I see you learned what a GIF is.
    I've used them many times before (including as replies to "you"), you must be a new zippy team member.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I've used them many times before (including as replies to "you"), you must be a new zippy team member.
    It is probably hard to get new people. Nobody wants to be a punching bag despite Zippy's claims to the contrary.

  7. #6
    Next round of tariff wars could start today. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1LM0YN

    The Trump administration is ready to move ahead with a next round of tariffs after a public comment period ends at midnight in Washington on Thursday, but the timing is uncertain, people familiar with the administration’s plans told Reuters.

    The new duties will start to hit consumer products directly, including furniture, lighting products, tires, bicycles and car seats for babies.

    Trump said he was not prepared to make a deal with China “that they’d like to make.”

    “We’ll continue to talk to China,” he said at the White House on Wednesday.

    “But right now we just can’t make that deal. In the meantime, we’re taking in billions of dollars of taxes coming in from China, with the potential of billions and billions of dollars more taxes coming in.”

    Given the smaller amount of goods China imports from the United States on which it could slap duties, Beijing has vowed to hit back with unspecified “qualitative” and “quantitative” measures, actions perceived within the U.S. business community as likely to be increased customs and regulatory scrutiny.

    Beijing appears to be bracing for a long fight.

    Official Chinese media is asserting that Trump’s trade war is aimed at containing China’s rise, a perception solidifying Beijing’s resolve not to buckle under U.S. demands.

    In light of such a U.S. agenda, China should “maintain strategic determination” and “take care of our own matters”, Long Guoqiang, vice president of the State Council’s Development Research Center, wrote in the People’s Daily.
    Those "billions and billions of dollars" the tariffs are bring in are being paid by US companies and consumers who buy products from China or goods made from materials from China. Neither side is willing to blink so it will get much worse.

  8. #7
    U.S. Actions May Push Tariffs Back to Post-WWII Levels, UBS Says

    You haven’t seen anything of the trade wars yet.

    UBS analysts estimate that if President Donald Trump follows through with additional duties on $200 billion of Chinese goods, the weighted average tariff in the U.S could increase by 442 basis points, a level last seen in 1971. Only 18 percent of that increase has already happened, the analysts led by Arend Kapteyn wrote in a note to clients on Wednesday.

    A further escalation of the spat to cover $450 billion of Sino-American trade would bring tariffs back to a level last seen in the 1940s, according to the report. “Viewed in a historical context, this is a very high stakes game of poker.”

    Trump has upended global commerce with a salvo of protectionist measures targeting allies and foes alike, as the reduction of the U.S trade deficit has been catapulted to the top of his administration’s agenda. The levies have provoked retaliation from the world’s biggest economies, including China and the European Union, casting doubt over the future of the global trade order.

    Shots Fired
    The scale of the conflict is growing, based on imposed and threatened tariffs

    The global average import tariff is now poised to increase by 93 basis points to 4.06 percent, the highest level since 2001, according to UBS estimates. U.S. actions account for most of the increase.

    The protectionist retrenchment may be further exacerbated next year if the EU and the U.K. fail to strike an agreement for an orderly Brexit, the UBS analysts say. “The average tariff on all U.K. goods would increase by 230bp,” while the EU and the U.K. would together “push the global weighted average tariff up by an additional 48bp in 2019 or 2020.”
    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...evels-ubs-says

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Next round of tariff wars could start today. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKCN1LM0YN


    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Those "billions and billions of dollars" the tariffs are bring in are being paid by US companies and consumers who buy products from China or goods made from materials from China. Neither side is willing to blink so it will get much worse.
    Actually it is money that would have gone to the Chinese companies and government but they lowered their prices and devalued their currency to keep the end price the same for their customers.

    #Winning
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Fighting back in the trade war is going to get the parasites to agree to lower tariffs on all sides.

    Even if they decide to be suicidally stubborn the US was well off post WWII.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Actually it is money that would have gone to the Chinese companies and government but they lowered their prices and devalued their currency to keep the end price the same for their customers.

    #Winning
    SO they aren't hurting anybody. Why is Trump offering $12 billion to farmers? Why are small businesses struggling with rising costs? (Tariffs are not just against China but also the EU, Mexico, and Canada among other countries).

    https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ng/1083768002/

    Trump steel and aluminum tariffs take a toll on Vermont manufacturers

    Tariff trouble has been a long time coming for a number of Vermont companies.

    President Donald Trump imposed a 25 percent tariff on steel and a 10 percent tariff on aluminum imports in May from both Canada and Mexico. Yet many Vermont businesses had already been feeling the pain for months, the owner of Queen City Steel Co. in Burlington says.

    The firm's suppliers started raising their prices in November 2017, owner Jeff Goldfield said. That's when rumors of tariffs began circulating, six months before any tariffs went into effect.

    “It wasn’t just a little bit,” Goldfield said of the price increases. “Every month, they were hitting it. Once in November, once in December, once in January.”

    The result for Queen City Steel, which supplies raw steel to fabricators and builders, is this: A truckload of steel that cost up to $10,000 before the tariffs now costs upwards of $30,000.

    The company is hardly alone in Vermont. Gov. Phil Scott, a Republican, said tariffs serve only to slow the economy down.

    “I feel as though we have a heated-up economy and we don’t want to do anything to squelch that,” Scott said at the 2018 New England Governors and Eastern Canadian Premiers conference in Stowe last month. “Fear, at least apprehension, leads to sitting on your hands. I’m concerned, and I think a lot of businesses throughout Vermont are apprehensive.”

    Colchester casting machine company frets tariffs
    One business feeling apprehensive about the tariffs is Hazelett Corp. in Colchester, a manufacturer with 160 employees that exports globally to about 24 countries, including China. It is among Vermont's largest manufacturers.

    Hazelett makes continuous casting machines that are used to manufacture rolls of aluminum and copper from molten metal, as well as copper bar and strips of zinc and lead. The machines weigh up to 150 tons and can cost as much as $20 million each.

    About one-third of the copper wire produced in the world goes through Hazelett Corp. bar casters, said David Hazelett, whose grandfather founded the company in Cleveland a century ago. The firm has 40 to 50 customers around the world, according to Marketing Director Keith Decker, including one of the world’s largest manufacturer of car batteries located in China.

    So the stakes are high for one of Vermont’s largest manufacturers, especially where the Chinese market is concerned. After Trump imposed tariffs, the Chinese government has retaliated with their own tariffs that his company must pay.

    “Virtually all of our spare parts we sell to China, which represents about 20 percent of our ongoing business, are subject to a 10 to 25 percent tariff," Hazelett said. "And we struggle anyway to maintain our customers in China."

    Hazelett Corp. is affected by the Trump Administration’s tariffs in a variety of ways. The primary source for the steel used to make the casting belts on the Hazelett Corp. continuous casting machine is in France.

    “We’re now paying a 25 percent duty on all that material,” Hazelett said.

    Tariff on Canadian aluminum takes toll
    The aluminum tariff has hit Hazelett even harder because aluminum is such an important part of its business.

    “The tariffs have brought a lot of shocks, but the biggest one and worst one is this 10 percent tariff against Canadian aluminum,” David Hazelett said. “It’s a tax on American costs that nobody else bears, only the United States.

    The United States consumes about 12 million tons of aluminum annually and produces less than four tons, Hazelett said.

    “So we rely on a couple of things,” he said. “One is a lot of scrap aluminum. We have the biggest scrap aluminum market in the world.”
    More at link.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    SO they aren't hurting anybody. Why is Trump offering $12 billion to farmers? Why are small businesses struggling with rising costs? (Tariffs are not just against China but also the EU, Mexico, and Canada among other countries).

    https://www.burlingtonfreepress.com/...ng/1083768002/



    More at link.
    Nice try at changing the subject, this thread and the relevant posts are about China.

    The other tariffs may cause some pain for some industries but that is what happens in a trade war, everyone else has suffered much more during the decades we didn't fight back.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A truckload of steel that cost up to $10,000 before the tariffs now costs upwards of $30,000.
    Then something else is $#@!ing up his business. Not the steal tariff. 25% of $10,000 is $2,500, therefore the cost of steal plus the cost of tariff should come to $12,500. So either they are full of $#@! or bad at teh maths.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Then something else is $#@!ing up his business. Not the steal tariff. 25% of $10,000 is $2,500, therefore the cost of steal plus the cost of tariff should come to $12,500. So either they are full of $#@! or bad at teh maths.
    Tariffs reduced the amount of steel being imported. Lower supply even with the same demand means higher prices- on top of the 25% tariff. And since these higher input prices only effect the US, manufacturers are at more of a competitive disadvantage vs manufacturers in other countries not facing these higher costs.

    https://www.metalbulletin.com/Articl...se-abroad.html

    US hot-rolled, cold-rolled steel prices soar past those abroad

    Steel prices in the United States are at their highest point versus steel prices abroad since the 2008 financial crisis.

    And the spread between US hot-rolled coil (HRC) and cold-rolled coil (CRC) prices, like US flat-rolled steel prices in general, is now higher than at any point in the past decade, according to an analysis of pricing data from American Metal Market and Metal Bulletin. A comparison of US HRC and CRC prices with those in other major steelmaking countries, on a dollar-per-short-ton basis, reveals several notable trends: HRC US HRC prices averaged $897.60 per ton in 2008, the steel market's previous peak and a 41.8% premium to Chinese HRC prices of $632.86 per ton.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-06-2018 at 02:32 PM.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Tariffs reduced the amount of steel being imported.
    Sure they will reduce the amount of steel being imported. That's kind of the point. But, it's not going to completely cut it off. And it sure as hell hasn't increased the price three-fold.

    Let's see what raw steel is actually doing....



    Hmmm...looks about the same as it did in 2017 at this time.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 09-06-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Sure they will reduce the amount of steel being imported. That's kind of the point. But, it's not going to completely cut it off. And it sure as hell hasn't increased the price three-fold.

    Let's see what raw steel is actually doing....



    Hmmm...looks about the same as it did in 2017 at this time.
    Hmmm. Looks more like cobalt than steel. My chart was steel.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 09-06-2018 at 03:17 PM.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Hmmm. Looks more like cobalt than steel.
    Cobalt is considered a "raw" steel material. Raw steel materials are not subject to the 25% tariff. Only the finished product. American Steel is getting ready to MAGA again.



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