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Thread: Free Immigration & Equality

  1. #1

    Free Immigration & Equality

    If there were totally free immigration, and people in fact flooded by the millions into the territory now called the United States, you anti-immigrant people do realize that the result would not be a vaguely brown and mediocre mixture of everyone, as if it were a math problem? Look at India. Color is directly linked to social class. Some people might say this is a legacy of colonialism; people who actually understand history might know better. So, in short, if you recognize the differences among peoples, anti-immigrants persons, why (voting aside) would you be opposed to this arrangement, given that nature, and market competition, would be allowed to take its course?



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  3. #2
    Because they would seek to impose their anti-liberty views on us and the anti-liberty elements of our society would cooperate with them and we would lose our liberty.

    P.S. It has nothing to do with skin color, we don't want blonde blue eyed communist either.
    P.P.S. they (of any skin color) could easily end up displacing us as the dominant class in our own territory and we should avoid that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Because they would seek to impose their anti-liberty views on us and the anti-liberty elements of our society would cooperate with them and we would lose our liberty.
    ...that would be covered by the "voting aside" provision of the question.

    P.S. It has nothing to do with skin color, we don't want blonde blue eyed communist either.
    P.P.S. they (of any skin color) could easily end up displacing us as the dominant class in our own territory and we should avoid that.
    Your allies would disagree (maybe you need new friends).

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...that would be covered by the "voting aside" provision of the question.
    I missed that the first time because I'm tired but what I said applies to many other aspects of culture as well like morality and criminality, we have a pretty good culture and we don't need to let in millions of people from inferior cultures to add their disadvantages to ours.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Your allies would disagree (maybe you need new friends).
    I do wish many more people would join me.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I missed that the first time because I'm tired but what I said applies to many other aspects of culture as well like morality and criminality, we have a pretty good culture and we don't need to let in millions of people from inferior cultures to add their disadvantages to ours.
    Well, first, culture doesn't matter.

    That aside...

    I've always thought it odd that traditionalists loathed immigrants, since their ethics are generally much more traditional than ours.

    Go ask some rigorously Catholics Mexicans what they think about abortion, for instance.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Well, first, culture doesn't matter.

    That aside...

    I've always thought it odd that traditionalists loathed immigrants, since their ethics are generally much more traditional than ours.

    Go ask some rigorously Catholics Mexicans what they think about abortion, for instance.
    There are certainly places we have fallen below other cultures but overall we are still better, Mexican culture has severe crime and corruption problems and their ideas about rape are atrocious.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are certainly places we have fallen below other cultures but overall we are still better, Mexican culture has severe crime and corruption problems
    That would be a result of general poverty and the drug war, nothing to do with culture.

    Employ a Mexican as a cop in Mexico City, getting paid nothing, getting threatened by cartels, and he behaves corruptly to survive.

    Eliminate the cartel and pay him a reasonable wage, he'd be like our cops (not a high bar, I might add).

    and their ideas about rape are atrocious.
    ...don't know what you mean.

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    That would be a result of general poverty and the drug war, nothing to do with culture.

    Employ a Mexican as a cop in Mexico City, getting paid nothing, getting threatened by cartels, and he behaves corruptly to survive.

    Eliminate the cartel and pay him a reasonable wage, he'd be like our cops (not a high bar, I might add).
    It is not that simple, they don't just upgrade their behavior when paid more, they have been raised to think that crime and corruption are how the world works and they continue to behave that way for generations after coming here.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    ...don't know what you mean.
    It is quite common in Mexico for the attitude to be that the woman is fair game unless she is a Nun.

    I would also add hygiene to the list.

    Culture matters in many ways, even if the outsiders came from a demonstrably better culture it is far more common for vices to spread than it is for virtues to do so, if you allow to many foreigners in at once you will end up with worse culture overall.

    It is also a problem that they think collectively far more than we do, if we allow too many in they begin to work against us to the benefit of eachother economically as well as politically/criminally. (especially if they tend to be poorer than we are)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9
    Dude. You do assume...that

    Sometimes as in often, it is.

    it AIN'T so. Your ignorance!

    Your subtle racism, indeed.

  12. #10
    We have people here who are extremely poor,
    we have people here who are extremely wealthy.
    In my childhood, there was a prosperous middle class.
    Not now. Most folks just get by. Like most folks in
    MEXICO. Let's don't be Marxists but he did feel...

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is not that simple, they don't just upgrade their behavior when paid more
    It really is that simple, and they really would change their behavior in a different environment.

    they have been raised to think that crime and corruption are how the world works and they continue to behave that way for generations after coming here.
    No one seeks to live the way they have been compelled to live.

    People qua voters are terribly inept, but no one is dumb enough to live by committing constant felonies when they can easily make a good wage.

    ...and not be decapitated by the cartel.

    It is quite common in Mexico for the attitude to be that the woman is fair game unless she is a Nun.
    Citation?

    I would also add hygiene to the list.
    Poor people are dirty.

    It is also a problem that they think collectively far more than we do
    The common people are always socialists (i.e. envious of the upper classes).

    If Mexicans were more keen on welfare than Americans (which I doubt), it would only be because they're more poor.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    We have people here who are extremely poor,
    we have people here who are extremely wealthy.
    In my childhood, there was a prosperous middle class.
    Not now. Most folks just get by. Like most folks in
    MEXICO. Let's don't be Marxists but he did feel...
    A SENSE OF OUTRAGE AT HUMAN STUPIDITY AND INJUSTICE.
    I am an example of "noblesse oblige" by comparison, thusly.
    I LIVE ON A FAMILY FARM. THERE IS FAMILY MONEY. INDEEDY.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No one seeks to live the way they have been compelled to live.

    The common people are always socialists (i.e. envious of the upper classes).
    Ever see the old BIO-PIC flic from the 1930s, JUAREZ, where the late PAUL MUNI is Mexico's bold POTUS?
    The extras in the film were more believable than the clever A-LIST Hollywood talent. Look at it, duckies!!!

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It really is that simple, and they really would change their behavior in a different environment.



    No one seeks to live the way they have been compelled to live.

    People qua voters are terribly inept, but no one is dumb enough to live by committing constant felonies when they can easily make a good wage.

    ...and not be decapitated by the cartel.
    There is ample evidence that you are wrong around the world and throughout history, most people are not very rational and are creatures of habit.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Citation?
    Personal anecdotes from people I have known who lived there and a case a few years ago where Mexico recalled a consul for expressing that view when discussing an illegal that was arrested for raping an under age girl.



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Poor people are dirty.
    Perhaps but some cultures have filthier habits from the top to the bottom of the socioeconomic ladder, some also have far more poor people with particularly filthy habits, such cultures bring and spread diseases that have been suppressed or even wiped out in our society. (especially if they come without going through legal channels and thereby avoid health inspections)



    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The common people are always socialists (i.e. envious of the upper classes).
    The degree to which this is true depends on the culture, we don't want many people from cultures where it is more true than ours.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    If Mexicans were more keen on welfare than Americans (which I doubt), it would only be because they're more poor.
    No, it is because they have embraced socialism in their culture more than we have yet.

    Also I was not discussing welfare, you cut off the rest of what I said:

    if we allow too many in they begin to work against us to the benefit of eachother economically as well as politically/criminally. (especially if they tend to be poorer than we are)
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 08-30-2018 at 01:10 AM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Aratus View Post
    Dude. You do assume...that

    Sometimes as in often, it is.

    it AIN'T so. Your ignorance!

    Your subtle racism, indeed.
    If you put together a coherent sentence I might debate you, as it is I will simply say that my opinions have nothing to do with race.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    If you put together a coherent sentence I might debate you, as it is I will simply say that my opinions have nothing to do with race.
    dagnabbit, you admit YOU are opinionated. I know I AM! go at thy sport, then!



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