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Thread: Rand Paul Endorses Gary Johnson for Senate.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaulgld View Post
    There is a big difference between Ron Paul and Rand Paul and an even bigger difference between Rand Paul and Gary Johnson
    Johnson is an odd blend of ideas, not fully libertarian , not fully sensible. He is more harm than good
    More harm than a Bolshevik democrat?

    Nah...



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  3. #32



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Bad show on Rand's part.


    I have little love for Johnson but he is better than the Republican in this case and he could beat the Demoncrat while the Republican can't.
    Rand is exactly right here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaulgld View Post
    There is a big difference between Ron Paul and Rand Paul and an even bigger difference between Rand Paul and Gary Johnson
    Johnson is an odd blend of ideas, not fully libertarian , not fully sensible. He is more harm than good
    But he is less harm than either of the other options, he would also be the first LP Senator, that would move the political landscape our direction in a massive way.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I do not hate GJ. I think he is not what he claims to be, and I think there is a lot of conflict-of-interest in his connection to the pot lobby. That was never fully explained when he ran for president, and I remain very suspicious.

    I have never used pot and never plan to. The call for legalization is the wrong way to go. The government should remain neutral and silent on the issue, and immediately repeal all law where it is mentioned. People should be able to grow and use whatever they want in their own yard without any interference from anyone. It's nobody's business.

    Current law covers the industrialization of pot. Sale, regulation, taxation, and the forfeiture of anonymity. It does not cover a few plants in a yard grown for personal use. There is a huge difference here. I wish you all could see it.
    1.
    If weed is illegal as it was for most of the last 50 years, then you can illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it illegally, smoke it illegally out of illegal paraphernalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, in and of itself is proof of illegal activity. This causes widespread police harassment.

    2.
    If weed is legal but heavily regulated, you can still illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it legally, smoke it legally out of legal paraphenalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, is not proof of illegal activity. This prevents widespread police harassment.




    If you actually used cannabis, why wouldn't you prefer the second one to the first?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #36
    Jan2017
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    This is silly... if the Republican, or Gary, had a chance, then Rand wouldn't have done this.
    Quote Originally Posted by Smaulgld View Post
    There is a big difference between Ron Paul and Rand Paul and an even bigger difference between Rand Paul and Gary Johnson
    Johnson is an odd blend of ideas, not fully libertarian , not fully sensible. He is more harm than good
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Good, the Republican is worse and doesn't have a chance, Rand should get Trump to endorse Johnson.
    I figured that someday the first "L" in Congress would be in the House of Representatives -
    but fine if he is really running as a Libertarian and is in all the local NM debates.

    Johnson should avoid displays of affection to other debaters . . .

    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-29-2018 at 02:30 PM.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    1.
    If weed is illegal as it was for most of the last 50 years, then you can illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it illegally, smoke it illegally out of illegal paraphernalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, in and of itself is proof of illegal activity. This causes widespread police harassment.

    2.
    If weed is legal but heavily regulated, you can still illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it legally, smoke it legally out of legal paraphenalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, is not proof of illegal activity. This prevents widespread police harassment.




    If you actually used cannabis, why wouldn't you prefer the second one to the first?
    Why would you prefer government regulation to true liberty?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    I figured that someday the first "L" in Congress would be in the House of Representatives -
    but fine if he is really running as a Libertarian and is in all the local NM debates.

    Johnson should avoid displays of affection to other debaters . . .

    He is far from ideal and the only reasons I agree with Rand are that he is the best option in the race and because of the effect it will have on American politics if the LP gets a Senate seat.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Why would you prefer government regulation to true liberty?
    I don't, that wasn't an option I listed, nor is it a realistic option now.

    I guess if I were a dictator it would be an option, and that would be the direction I would go but otherwise that is a dream.

    YOU YOURSELF insist that cannabis being completely illegal is preferable to it being legal and regulated.

    You could use tax cuts as an example..

    If taxes were 80%, and I advocated we elect Gary Johnson who could realistically win and implement a 70% tax reduction, or a 10% tax, if you used the same logic you would be against electing Gary Johnson because he doesn't advocate for a 0% tax (at least in the short term) - even though a 10% tax would be far superior to an 80% tax.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-29-2018 at 02:41 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Why would you prefer government regulation to true liberty?
    Maybe those aren't the options, maybe we can move things in the right direction yard by yard while we can't score a touchdown in one play.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post

    YOU YOURSELF insist that cannabis being completely illegal is preferable to it being legal and regulated.
    I never said that. This is at least the second time you have twisted my words around with no proof at all.

    What I am saying is that Gary Johnson is not a libertarian. He is a big government libertine who wants to use government to promote the things he likes and stick it to the rest of us.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I never said that. This is at least the second time you have twisted my words around with no proof at all.

    What I am saying is that Gary Johnson is not a libertarian. He is a big government libertine who wants to use government to promote the things he likes and stick it to the rest of us.
    Ok, so you would say that legalization and regulation is better than it being completely illegal?

    How is legalizing cannabis sticking it to the rest of us when it is a better alternative that what we have now?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ok, so you would say that legalization and regulation is better than it being completely illegal?

    How is legalizing cannabis sticking it to the rest of us when it is a better alternative that what we have now?
    That’s not a liberty position. That’s a big(ger) government position. Both positions require a lot of government to regulate and control the substance and the users. This is typical GJ spin. Big government is great as long as it gives you permission to do what you want.

    I will never support a candidate who operates this way. Government will never be limited as long as people like you demand more law to give you what you want. A liberty thinker would demand a repeal on all cannibis law.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    That’s not a liberty position. That’s a big(ger) government position. Both positions require a lot of government to regulate and control the substance and the users. This is typical GJ spin. Big government is great as long as it gives you permission to do what you want.

    I will never support a candidate who operates this way. Government will never be limited as long as people like you demand more law to give you what you want. A liberty thinker would demand a repeal on all cannibis law.
    I demonstrated above that there is more liberty in the position of legalization than there is in the position of criminalization, recall:

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    1.
    If weed is illegal as it was for most of the last 50 years, then you can illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it illegally, smoke it illegally out of illegal paraphernalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, in and of itself is proof of illegal activity. This causes widespread police harassment.

    2.
    If weed is legal but heavily regulated, you can still illegally grow cannabis on your property, sell it illegally, buy it illegally, possess it legally, smoke it legally out of legal paraphenalia/pipes, etc..

    The smell of cannabis, which is quite potent, is not proof of illegal activity. This prevents widespread police harassment.




    If you actually used cannabis, why wouldn't you prefer the second one to the first?

    It is better to have more liberty than less liberty. It is better to have a 10% tax rate than an 80% tax rate. When the tax rate is 80%, lowering it to 10% is not an anti-liberty position. You get more liberty with a 10% tax than an 80% tax, so advocating a 10% tax when the tax rate is 80% is a pro-liberty position. Advocating a 10% tax when the tax rate is 5% is an anti-liberty position.
    Last edited by dannno; 08-29-2018 at 03:47 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    YOU YOURSELF insist that cannabis being completely illegal is preferable to it being legal and regulated.
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I never said that. This is at least the second time you have twisted my words around with no proof at all.
    Proof:

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Ok, so you would say that legalization and regulation is better than it being completely illegal?

    How is legalizing cannabis sticking it to the rest of us when it is a better alternative that what we have now?

    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    That’s not a liberty position. That’s a big(ger) government position. Both positions require a lot of government to regulate and control the substance and the users. This is typical GJ spin. Big government is great as long as it gives you permission to do what you want.

    I will never support a candidate who operates this way. Government will never be limited as long as people like you demand more law to give you what you want. A liberty thinker would demand a repeal on all cannibis law.

    I do demand a repeal on all cannabis law - but I prefer a repeal on some cannabis laws to increase liberty over a repeal on no cannabis laws.

    You actually hold the anti-liberty position because you prefer less liberty to more liberty. I prefer more liberty to less liberty, even if it isn't perfect.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #46
    If I may, let me tell you what happens when government controls a substance because of the War On Drugs:

    I live in the allergy capitol of the world because anything grows here, we have a long growing season, and we get a lot of rain. I have serious allergies and I follow a very strict regimen.

    Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) has been OTC for longer than my adult life. The serious nature of my allergies mean I need this decongestant every day. It has not been a problem until the War On Drugs people decided too many people were abusing sedated to make methamphetimine. Sudafed became a controlled substance. The law states we cannot purchase more than a certain amount per household in a certain amount of time.

    I have a prescription. I pay a copay to visit my allergist. He sends the prescription to the pharmacy. I then go to the pharmacy and my driver's license is scanned, and I am allowed to buy the meds I need. At the pharmacy counter. I can only purchase it there, because it is a prescription, and if my husband happens to need a decongestant a few days a year, he cannot use my prescription and our household has its allotment. We cannot buy more. There is no privacy or choice about it.

    Is that really what you want to see happen to cannabis, a plant you can grow in your own yard for your own use?

    Here's another relevant example: I use an asthma inhaler. This inhaler used to be $5 a month cash, no copay. Then the EPA decided the propellant in the inhaler was toxic to the environment. So now the copay for this rescue inhaler is now $50. I cannot afford to pay for a daily maintenance inhaler at all because the government controls the active ingredient.

    So I am now at risk for complications because of my inability to breathe. I run the risk for infection, heart disease, and diabetes because of the War On Drugs.

    No, to any more government regulation for anything.

    Gary Johnson does not consider the implications of his purpose and language. If he is a true libertarian he will insist that government remove regulation on cannabis. Government should have no position at all.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    If I may, let me tell you what happens when government controls a substance because of the War On Drugs:

    I live in the allergy capitol of the world because anything grows here, we have a long growing season, and we get a lot of rain. I have serious allergies and I follow a very strict regimen.

    Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) has been OTC for longer than my adult life. The serious nature of my allergies mean I need this decongestant every day. It has not been a problem until the War On Drugs people decided too many people were abusing sedated to make methamphetimine. Sudafed became a controlled substance. The law states we cannot purchase more than a certain amount per household in a certain amount of time.

    I have a prescription. I pay a copay to visit my allergist. He sends the prescription to the pharmacy. I then go to the pharmacy and my driver's license is scanned, and I am allowed to buy the meds I need. At the pharmacy counter. I can only purchase it there, because it is a prescription, and if my husband happens to need a decongestant a few days a year, he cannot use my prescription and our household has its allotment. We cannot buy more. There is no privacy or choice about it.

    Is that really what you want to see happen to cannabis, a plant you can grow in your own yard for your own use?

    Here's another relevant example: I use an asthma inhaler. This inhaler used to be $5 a month cash, no copay. Then the EPA decided the propellant in the inhaler was toxic to the environment. So now the copay for this rescue inhaler is now $50. I cannot afford to pay for a daily maintenance inhaler at all because the government controls the active ingredient.

    So I am now at risk for complications because of my inability to breathe. I run the risk for infection, heart disease, and diabetes because of the War On Drugs.

    No, to any more government regulation for anything.

    Gary Johnson does not consider the implications of his purpose and language. If he is a true libertarian he will insist that government remove regulation on cannabis. Government should have no position at all.
    Cannabis is not available over the counter and the alternative options to GJ want to keep things the way they are.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    If I may, let me tell you what happens when government controls a substance because of the War On Drugs:

    I live in the allergy capitol of the world because anything grows here, we have a long growing season, and we get a lot of rain. I have serious allergies and I follow a very strict regimen.

    Pseudoephedrine (Sudafed) has been OTC for longer than my adult life. The serious nature of my allergies mean I need this decongestant every day. It has not been a problem until the War On Drugs people decided too many people were abusing sedated to make methamphetimine. Sudafed became a controlled substance. The law states we cannot purchase more than a certain amount per household in a certain amount of time.

    I have a prescription. I pay a copay to visit my allergist. He sends the prescription to the pharmacy. I then go to the pharmacy and my driver's license is scanned, and I am allowed to buy the meds I need. At the pharmacy counter. I can only purchase it there, because it is a prescription, and if my husband happens to need a decongestant a few days a year, he cannot use my prescription and our household has its allotment. We cannot buy more. There is no privacy or choice about it.

    Is that really what you want to see happen to cannabis, a plant you can grow in your own yard for your own use?

    Here's another relevant example: I use an asthma inhaler. This inhaler used to be $5 a month cash, no copay. Then the EPA decided the propellant in the inhaler was toxic to the environment. So now the copay for this rescue inhaler is now $50. I cannot afford to pay for a daily maintenance inhaler at all because the government controls the active ingredient.

    So I am now at risk for complications because of my inability to breathe. I run the risk for infection, heart disease, and diabetes because of the War On Drugs.

    No, to any more government regulation for anything.

    Gary Johnson does not consider the implications of his purpose and language. If he is a true libertarian he will insist that government remove regulation on cannabis. Government should have no position at all.
    Would you prefer that Sudafed be completely criminalized and that you have to buy it from a street dealer and don't know the potency or what else may be in it? And have it be more expensive than it is now? If you get caught with a pill you go to prison?

    Because that is how it was for weed for most of the last 50 years.

    Now that it is regulated, you can grow your own, buy some on the illegal market and have it tested legally, you have all kinds of options.

    It's not optimal, but it is better than when it was completely criminalized.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    The call for legalization is the wrong way to go. The government should remain neutral and silent on the issue, and immediately repeal all law where it is mentioned. People should be able to grow and use whatever they want in their own yard without any interference from anyone. It's nobody's business.
    The call for legalization is the wrong way to go? But then your next sentence is a call for legalization.

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    I am officially endorsing Gary Johnson myself!
    Ditto

    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    I wonder if Ron will also endorse him. I could see him doing it or not doing it. But I'd like to see him do it just to see the reactions of some here whose level of hatred for GJ is irrational.
    I don't think Ron's endorsing anyone these days, but I expect he would if he were.

    On the other hand,

    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    Just bake the @#@&ing cake already.
    ...I can't think of an issue more crucial for the future of Western civilization than **** cakes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jan2017 View Post
    I figured that someday the first "L" in Congress would be in the House of Representatives -
    but fine if he is really running as a Libertarian and is in all the local NM debates.

    Johnson should avoid displays of affection to other debaters . . .

    That doesn't seem to be a bar to election.


  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    The call for legalization is the wrong way to go? But then your next sentence is a call for legalization.
    No. My call is for all cannabis law to be repealed. It is not the same at all. Liberty thinkers need to frame the discussion in a way that restricts government.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It is better to have more liberty than less liberty.
    Liberty is not quantitative. Either you have it, or you don’t.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Liberty is not quantitative. Either you have it, or you don’t.
    So are you saying that a 1% income tax is equal to a 90% income tax?

    I already broke it down for you.

    I have the liberty to carry around weed, and if a cop finds me with weed, it is legal. I have the liberty to grow weed because it is legal. That is some liberty.

    I don't have the liberty to open a weed store down the street without going through a bunch of regulatory hoops and bribing the city council. That is a lack of liberty, in a specific area, but overall there is still more liberty than if it was criminalized.

    You have the liberty to go buy sudafed in the store, go home, and if a cop pulls you over he won't take you to jail for having it. Imagine if it was completely illegal to purchase sudafed, and you got thrown in jail for having it on your person. That would be less liberty than you have now.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    No. My call is for all cannabis law to be repealed. It is not the same at all. Liberty thinkers need to frame the discussion in a way that restricts government.
    So you've changed your stance on the drug war? Better late than never.
    "The Patriarch"

  29. #55
    That’s not liberty. Liberty is when we are free to enjoy our inalienable rights without thought toward government.

    Pot is not my issue. Liberty is my issue. Government must be restricted. This is what we should be talking about. Pot and decongestants are things that can change pronto. We need to reframe the argument. The argument should not be how much regulation, but on what date certain government will lose the power to regulate and restrict this kind of stuff.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    That’s not liberty. Liberty is when we are free to enjoy our inalienable rights without thought toward government.

    Pot is not my issue. Liberty is my issue. Government must be restricted. This is what we should be talking about. Pot and decongestants are things that can change pronto. We need to reframe the argument. The argument should not be how much regulation, but on what date certain government will lose the power to regulate and restrict this kind of stuff.
    You continue to describe the ideal without explaining how either of the other candidates is better than GJ, we don't have the ideal available but GJ will get us closer to it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    You have the liberty to go buy sudafed in the store, go home, and if a cop pulls you over he won't take you to jail for having it. Imagine if it was completely illegal to purchase sudafed, and you got thrown in jail for having it on your person. That would be less liberty than you have now.
    When is the last time you bought Sudafed? You don't have complete liberty to buy it, there are very strict limits to how much you can purchase, and requires your ID get entered into a database. Get caught with too much and you might very well be looking at jail.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    When is the last time you bought Sudafed? You don't have complete liberty to buy it, there are very strict limits to how much you can purchase, and requires your ID get entered into a database. Get caught with too much and you might very well be looking at jail.
    Not at all ideal but is that better or worse than not being able to legally buy or posses any?
    In the case of Sudafed things used to be better and this is worse than before but weed is worse and if it becomes like Sudafed or better that is an improvement.
    Remember that there isn't a candidate in the race that wants total decriminalization.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    When is the last time you bought Sudafed? You don't have complete liberty to buy it, there are very strict limits to how much you can purchase, and requires your ID get entered into a database. Get caught with too much and you might very well be looking at jail.
    Ya she already brought that up. But that is still preferable than having it be completely illegal to buy in any amount, anywhere, and when you do (from a drug dealer..) how do you know what's in it? Pretty sure the sudafed you buy in the store is fairly high quality.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    That doesn't seem to be a bar to election.


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