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Thread: Ron Paul R3volution falls victim to Trump and frustration

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Cleaner44 View Post
    Your post doesn't really make sense to me. Maybe next time to can work on being more clear.

    Trump isn't my friend at all, but I would like to have billionaire friends.

    I am the greatest and always have been!

    Just to be clear about my feelings on Trump, I appreciate the many positive things that are happening as a result of him being President. His positives outweigh his negatives as far as I am concerned. I could go on and on about what those positives are for me, but does anyone really care?
    Sadly, not everyone is more concerned about outcomes than ego.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Except that's not how it works. This is the real proposal: You, Mr. Consumer, want to buy a product, commodity or service from a country on the authoritarian's naughty list? You have to pay more because we've put more government in the way.

    No matter which way you cut it, it's more government interference in the trade between two individuals.

    Some seem to think that this "more government" will eventually lead to less government. I don't think that's ever happened. More likely, it will just be a shift in the favored cronyist industries.
    I'm pretty sure that in nearly every instance of the tariffs trump wants, he has said he would drop all tariffs if the other country does the same for the us. in that his real goal is.true free trade. Not one sided free trade.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Trump always says everyone is the greatest until he changes his mind. Trump is for it until he is against it. No that Trump is "your best friend."
    I notice that Trump has no words for "mediocre," "alright," or "not bad."

    Everything falls either under, "greatest," "fantastic," "outstanding," etc. Or "worst ever," "disaster" etc.
    ...

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is already government involvement in trade and it is used to destroy our economy, Trump is defending America and trying to reduce government involvement in the end.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    I'm pretty sure that in nearly every instance of the tariffs trump wants, he has said he would drop all tariffs if the other country does the same for the us. in that his real goal is.true free trade. Not one sided free trade.
    Funny - all I hear from him is Bernie Sanders style protectionism talk.

    (There is no such thing as one-sided free trade, btw. Unless you're talking about governments getting their cut. "Free" trade means both parties are better off by the trade or it doesn't happen. Sad that I have to remind people of this here.)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    That's not an argument.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Funny - all I hear from him is Bernie Sanders style protectionism talk.

    (There is no such thing as one-sided free trade, btw. Unless you're talking about governments getting their cut. "Free" trade means both parties are better off by the trade or it doesn't happen. Sad that I have to remind people of this here.)
    Aherm.

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Fair enough. Please tell us your workable plan to get us out of the multilateral trade deals we are currently in.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Funny - all I hear from him is Bernie Sanders style protectionism talk.
    Uh, no, Bernie would be doing it so we could pay for healthcare or something.

    Trump is doing it because our economy is headed off a cliff and he needs to change our trade policies - he has no leverage, so he is instituting tariffs so he has leverage to negotiate trade policies so we end up with more fair trade policies.. and ultimately lower tariffs on both sides.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Funny - all I hear from him is Bernie Sanders style protectionism talk.
    This doesn't help:



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    (There is no such thing as one-sided free trade, btw. Unless you're talking about governments getting their cut. "Free" trade means both parties are better off by the trade or it doesn't happen. Sad that I have to remind people of this here.)
    You are right, what we have now is NOT free trade, what DJTvsg wants IS.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Aherm.
    He doesn't have one.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Aherm.
    No central planning. Lower all tariffs to an evenly low level. Regardless of what other countries do. We can do that unilaterally and it doesn’t take a managed deal. Managed economies are bad mkay.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    No central planning. Lower all tariffs to an evenly low level. Regardless of what other countries do. We can do that unilaterally and it doesn’t take a managed deal. Managed economies are bad mkay.
    Try again. Pro-tip: The key to this conundrum is the phrase "workable plan."

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    No central planning. Lower all tariffs to an evenly low level. Regardless of what other countries do. We can do that unilaterally and it doesn’t take a managed deal. Managed economies are bad mkay.
    That is like proposing that wars can be ended by burning our arms and taking a national vow of pacifism or that we can have a free country by allowing in millions of socialists and giving them citizenship and the right to vote.

    Trade will still suffer from government intervention that way, all of it from hostile foreign governments intent on destroying our economy and reducing us to dependence on foreign trade for our necessities so they can blackmail us into submission to world government.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Lower all tariffs to an evenly low level. Regardless of what other countries do.
    That's what we had before for decades and it didn't work. The President would say, "Hey, can you guys lower your tariffs on us? Pretty please?" and they would just say, "ehhhh. no thanks.."

    Now Trump has leverage.

    They will lower tariffs or face the consequences.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post

    Trade will still suffer from government intervention that way, all of it from hostile foreign governments intent on destroying our economy and reducing us to dependence on foreign trade for our necessities so they can blackmail us into submission to world government.
    Total anti-liberty hogwash. That’s typical neocon fearmongering. Ah yes, freedom is so scary! We need a big government to protect us from our own decisions.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That's what we had before for decades and it didn't work. The President would say, "Hey, can you guys lower your tariffs on us? Pretty please?" and they would just say, "ehhhh. no thanks.."

    Now Trump has leverage.

    They will lower tariffs or face the consequences.
    So what?! It’s not our job to govern other countries. If they want our business, they’ll lower their tariffs to a point where it’s beneficila to trade. God damn. You guys want to plan the whole world, now!

    Listen to Ron Paul on this subject.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Total anti-liberty hogwash. That’s typical neocon fearmongering. Ah yes, freedom is so scary! We need a big government to protect us from our own decisions.
    Total fantasyland delusion, the elite have openly discussed using trade dependency to force countries to submit to world government and the EU is an example of how the tactic is used.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So what?! It’s not our job to govern other countries. If they want our business, they’ll lower their tariffs to a point where it’s beneficila to trade. God damn. You guys want to plan the whole world, now!

    Listen to Ron Paul on this subject.
    There are other policies in place like monetary policy that allow them to get away with it. Trump isn't going to change that, probably couldn't if he wanted to.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  23. #80
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Try again. Pro-tip: The key to this conundrum is the phrase "workable plan."

    This is a workable plan. We would not violate any existing trade agreements except on the governance part. Our tariffs would stay in line or lower. As for the control... We’d have to unwind our entanglements slowly, but we could choose not to enforce. We wouldn’t be in violation.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire



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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    So what?! It’s not our job to govern other countries.
    We are not trying to govern them, we are negotiating with them.


    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    If they want our business, they’ll lower their tariffs to a point where it’s beneficila to trade.
    We let them have our business without it, they get all the benefits of a trade war without most of the disadvantages.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    God damn. You guys want to plan the whole world, now!
    Nope, we just want to defend ourselves, as you said: "If they want our business, they’ll lower their tariffs to a point where it’s beneficial to trade."

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Listen to Ron Paul on this subject.
    Ron is wrong on this subject.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    This is a workable plan. We would not violate any existing trade agreements except on the governance part. Our tariffs would stay in line or lower. As for the control... We’d have to unwind our entanglements slowly, but we could choose not to enforce. We wouldn’t be in violation.
    Surrender is NOT a workable plan, it is a recipe for disaster.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #83
    And there you have it. Here. In RPF. We have the Trumpcuckers telling us Ron Paul is wrong.

    And you wonder if the OP is accurate?! As you can see by this thread, most of the defenders of the principles of liberty have vacated the premises. Congrats. Trump killed the liberty movement. Proof positive.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post


    Ron is wrong on this subject.
    Let that sink in, folks.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    And there you have it. Here. In RPF. We have the Trumpcuckers telling us Ron Paul is wrong.

    And you wonder if the OP is accurate?! As you can see by this thread, most of the defenders of the principles of liberty have vacated the premises. Congrats. Trump killed the liberty movement. Proof positive.
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Let that sink in, folks.
    Truth is greater than one man no matter how great he is, you need to stop letting other people do your thinking for you.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #86
    Trump is right. Ron is wrong. Up is down. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    And there you have it. Here. In RPF. We have the Trumpcuckers telling us Ron Paul is wrong.

    And you wonder if the OP is accurate?! As you can see by this thread, most of the defenders of the principles of liberty have vacated the premises. Congrats. Trump killed the liberty movement. Proof positive.
    Those of us who support defensive tariffs did so back when Ron was running and before Trump ever suggested he would run.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Trump is right. Ron is wrong. Up is down. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.
    Even a broken clock is right twice a day, you disagree with Ron on open borders, does that make you a traitor to your demigod?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  33. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Truth is greater than one man no matter how great he is, you need to stop letting other people do your thinking for you.
    I understand the principles of liberty. So does Ron Paul. So did Bastiat. Not surprising we reach the same conclusions.

    If you are ignorant of those principles, don’t blame it on a cult of personality. That’s just projection.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I understand the principles of liberty. So does Ron Paul. So did Bastiat. Not surprising we reach the same conclusions.

    If you are ignorant of those principles, don’t blame it on a cult of personality. That’s just projection.
    You fail to see the flaws of the theory when it is applied in a world full of hostile actors and you constantly appeal to authority, you are the ignorant one.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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