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Thread: Russia's weakened military now surpassed by China's — and it leaves a trail of paper tigers

  1. #1

    Russia's weakened military now surpassed by China's — and it leaves a trail of paper tigers

    https://www.businessinsider.com/russ...-chinas-2018-8

    Russia, and the Soviet Union before it, always possessed an outsized military and grew quickly into the role of the US's chief rival after World War II, but despite prioritizing nuclear and military power above social welfare for decades , the Kremlin has been surpassed.

    Russia still wields enviable cyber warfare prowess, tremendous conventional military strength, the world's most dangerous nuclear weapons , and electronic warfare capabilities among the best on earth.

    But nobody is talking about Russia as the US's top military threat anymore. Today, it's China.

    Under President Donald Trump, the US has introduced a new National Security Strategy that lists China and Russia as its main strategic threats, rather than terrorism or climate change. China is listed first, and mentioned more often throughout the report.

    The culprit behind Russia's decline? Stagnation

    The Russian threat is a known quantity. NATO exists to counter Russia in Europe. Besides Russia's 2014 illegal annexation of Crimea, its constant aggressive behavior towards its neighbors hasn't really changed much over the decades.

    Russia's newest generation of nuclear weapons promises to evade and trick all existing US missile defenses, but that's also old news. Even the US's 1970s Minuteman III nuclear missile can likely evade Russian defenses. In any case, nuclear war has been a moot point since the establishment of mutually assured destruction.

    Russian systems near Eastern Europe can out-range and in some cases overwhelm its NATO counterpart, but Russia stands to gain little in conventional conflict, and under President Vladimir Putin it's mainly chosen to engage in hybrid warfare and to push its foreign policy goals with hacking and other nefarious plots.

    Where are the real innovations in Russia's military hardware? Russia introduced the Su-57, supposedly a stealth jet that could take on the US's F-35 and F-22 fighters , but it couldn't get the money together to order more than 12 of them. Likewise, Russia's T-14 Armata tank, framed as a NATO tank-killer, will not see serial production.

    For the T-14 and Su-57, economic stagnation caused by flat or falling oil prices and US sanctions likely struck the final blow.

    China running wild

    China used to buy and reverse engineer Russian weapons systems, which provided it a healthy base to start building its military, the largest in the world, but now it's clearly surpassed Russia in terms of high-end warfighting.

    China, not Russia, provided the first foreign answer to the US's total dominance in stealth aircraft with the Chengdu J-20 . China has also leapfrogged ahead in software and computing, pursuing both quantum computing and artificial intelligence at a break-neck place.

    Just as Putin has changed Russia's geography by taking Crimea, Beijing changed the very seas they border on by building up military strongholds across the South China Sea and steadily enforcing claims there with a firmer and firmer hand.

    China has created a new run of missiles set to give the US Navy a run for its money . China once bought a used Soviet aircraft carrier as a training vessel. Now it has plans to build three or more carriers to project power across the seas. Russia, on the other hand, has had to shelve its sole carrier until 2022, and before that it couldn't sail without a tug nearby. China has made a show of beating the US in technological races , even when they're mostly superficial.

    China, not Russia, has become the US military's boogeyman despite sitting half a world away. And with ten times Russia's population, and an economy set to displace the US as the world's top, it's unlikely Russia will hang around much longer in the conversation of top-tier militaries.

    Russia can achieve many of its foreign policy goals by spreading its own brand of information in Western democracies and leaning on its smaller satellite states. But China is building an all-aspect military capable of fighting the US military head-on.



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  3. #2
    All those years of Democrats selling China our technology.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.


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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    All those years of Democrats selling China our technology.
    To be fair it started when Nixon went to China and the Bushes were in on it too.

    Also we can't forget Israel selling them our tech either.

    Fortunately China will collapse because they are too proud to make a fair trade deal with Trump, because their economy is built on sand they may collapse even if they make a deal that is fair, unfair trade was keeping them alive.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    All those years of Democrats selling China our technology.
    Yea! we should sell to Saudi Arabia instead

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Yea! we should sell to Saudi Arabia instead
    Nobody here but you thinks that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nobody here but you thinks that.
    you are truly dense... lol

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    you are truly dense... lol
    No, I was joking.

    Nobody here wants to give the Saudis anything but you were implying that some do so I mocked you by turning it around back at you.

    Now who is dense?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, I was joking.

    Nobody here wants to give the Saudis anything but you were implying that some do so I mocked you by turning it around back at you.

    Now who is dense?
    still you of course.

    Do you even know what MAGA means? It means sell 110 billion in military equipment to saudi arabia.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    still you of course.

    Do you even know what MAGA means? It means sell 110 billion in military equipment to saudi arabia.
    MAGA means more than that and selling them some weapons is not the same as selling our most advanced tech to China.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    MAGA means more than that and selling them some weapons is not the same as selling our most advanced tech to China.
    The difference is that we can actually point to facts showing Republicans (and Democrats) making multi billion dollar military deals with SA. Can we point to facts showing that Democrats (or any politicians at all?) have sold US technology to China? Not that I have found. Please correct me (by citing a source, not just stating things, like you guys like to do) if I am wrong.

    China gets US technology because of regulations they have on international businesses who do business within China, which essentially requires them to share the technology with domestic partners. You can blame US policies that drive businesses to manufacture in China instead of in the US, but can you only blame D's, or can you blame R's as well for those policies? The fact is that many international businesses prefer to give their technology to Chinese companies than to operate domestically in order for them to have cheaper labor. The people responsible for China getting US technology are much better described as "CEOs" as opposed to "democrats"

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    The difference is that we can actually point to facts showing Republicans (and Democrats) making multi billion dollar military deals with SA. Can we point to facts showing that Democrats (or any politicians at all?) have sold US technology to China? Not that I have found. Please correct me (by citing a source, not just stating things, like you guys like to do) if I am wrong.

    China gets US technology because of regulations they have on international businesses who do business within China, which essentially requires them to share the technology with domestic partners. You can blame US policies that drive businesses to manufacture in China instead of in the US, but can you only blame D's, or can you blame R's as well for those policies? The fact is that many international businesses prefer to give their technology to Chinese companies than to operate domestically in order for them to have cheaper labor. The people responsible for China getting US technology are much better described as "CEOs" as opposed to "democrats"
    With all this talk of Russians allegedly interfering in U.S. elections, it is worth recalling that it wasn’t too long ago that the previous Democrat in the White House betrayed America by working hand in hand with our Communist enemies in mainland China.
    As president, Bill Clinton essentially wiped out any strategic advantage the U.S. had by selling advanced U.S. missile technology to our enemy, the People’s Republic of China.
    That “administration’s voluntary release of all the secrets of America’s nuclear tests, combined with the systematic theft of the secrets that were left as a result of its lax security controls, effectively wiped out America’s technological edge,” David Horowitz writes in the recently published, The Black Book of the American Left Volume 7: The Left in Power: Clinton to Obama.
    Unlike the administrations that preceded it, the Clinton administration accepted millions of dollars from the military and intelligence services of at least one hostile foreign power. All of this was done in exchange for illegal campaign contributions from a massive totalitarian country determined to eclipse the U.S. as a world superpower.
    President Clinton also lifted security controls, allowing thieves to access other vital military technologies, while disarming his own side and opposing needed defenses.
    “One of the key technological breaks China received, without having to spy to get it, was the deliverance of supercomputers once banned from export for security reasons,” writes Horowitz.
    “Supercomputers underpin the technology of nuclear and missile warfare, and not only for firing and controlling the missiles. A supercomputer can simulate a nuclear test and is thus crucial to the development of nuclear warheads. But, according to a Washington Post editorial: ‘In the first three quarters of 1998 nine times as many [supercomputers] were exported [to China] as during the previous seven years.’”
    “This transfer,” he writes, “was authorized three years after the spy thefts were detected. What rationale—besides stupidity, greed, or some other equally indefensible motive—could justify this? What responsible president or administration official, at any relevant level in any government, would allow the massive transfer of national-security assets like these to a dictatorship they knew had stolen their country’s most highly guarded military secrets?”

    More at: https://capitalresearch.org/article/...le-technology/

    If you want more do your own research.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    Please correct me (by citing a source, not just stating things, like you guys like to do)...

    Maybe you can invite some of your progressive friends to reply to all the "you guys" that you oppose on RPF. Is your organization hiring?
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    With all this talk of Russians allegedly interfering in U.S. elections, it is worth recalling that it wasn’t too long ago that the previous Democrat in the White House betrayed America by working hand in hand with our Communist enemies in mainland China.
    As president, Bill Clinton essentially wiped out any strategic advantage the U.S. had by selling advanced U.S. missile technology to our enemy, the People’s Republic of China.
    That “administration’s voluntary release of all the secrets of America’s nuclear tests, combined with the systematic theft of the secrets that were left as a result of its lax security controls, effectively wiped out America’s technological edge,” David Horowitz writes in the recently published, The Black Book of the American Left Volume 7: The Left in Power: Clinton to Obama.
    Unlike the administrations that preceded it, the Clinton administration accepted millions of dollars from the military and intelligence services of at least one hostile foreign power. All of this was done in exchange for illegal campaign contributions from a massive totalitarian country determined to eclipse the U.S. as a world superpower.
    President Clinton also lifted security controls, allowing thieves to access other vital military technologies, while disarming his own side and opposing needed defenses.
    “One of the key technological breaks China received, without having to spy to get it, was the deliverance of supercomputers once banned from export for security reasons,” writes Horowitz.
    “Supercomputers underpin the technology of nuclear and missile warfare, and not only for firing and controlling the missiles. A supercomputer can simulate a nuclear test and is thus crucial to the development of nuclear warheads. But, according to a Washington Post editorial: ‘In the first three quarters of 1998 nine times as many [supercomputers] were exported [to China] as during the previous seven years.’”
    “This transfer,” he writes, “was authorized three years after the spy thefts were detected. What rationale—besides stupidity, greed, or some other equally indefensible motive—could justify this? What responsible president or administration official, at any relevant level in any government, would allow the massive transfer of national-security assets like these to a dictatorship they knew had stolen their country’s most highly guarded military secrets?”

    More at: https://capitalresearch.org/article/...le-technology/

    If you want more do your own research.
    The claim is factual then, I was wrong. Although the selling seemed to related to launching satellites which would also be applicable in ICBMs. Seems it was sold after China had already stolen nuclear weapons plans through espionage, which would make the deal very questionable

    I do think the majority of these technology transfers of recent happen in the way I outlined in the previous post tho

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    The claim is factual then, I was wrong. Although the selling seemed to related to launching satellites which would also be applicable in ICBMs. Seems it was sold after China had already stolen nuclear weapons plans through espionage, which would make the deal very questionable

    I do think the majority of these technology transfers of recent happen in the way I outlined in the previous post tho
    So Clinton did sell them a couple computers but the weapons technology was stolen.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    So Clinton did sell them a couple computers but the weapons technology was stolen.
    After he reduced security.

    President Clinton also lifted security controls, allowing thieves to access other vital military technologies

    Those illegal campaign contributions were a very good deal for the ChiComs.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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