Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 31 to 60 of 103

Thread: South Africa to finalize plans to seize white farmers land

  1. #31
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ NƎI⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #32
    I'll ask again:

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    They [i.e. Afrikaners] shouldn't be allowed to come here?

    Why?



  4. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'll ask again:
    They [i.e. Afrikaners] shouldn't be allowed to come here?
    AF wasn't advocating that position, he was recognizing that it was unlikely that the liberals in the US government would give them asylum.
    Since he is an immigration hawk I imagine that under normal conditions he wouldn't want to allow too many of them to come here because their liberty culture is not as pure as ours, I don't know whether he would want to give them asylum straight up or whether like me he would want to insist that they replace other refugees.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    AF wasn't advocating that position he was recognizing that it was unlikely that the liberals in the US government would give them asylum.
    So, you mean anti-immigrant persons aren't opposed to allowing the Afrikaners to come here?

    Since he is an immigration hawk I imagine that under normal conditions he wouldn't want to allow too many of them to come here because their liberty culture is not as pure as ours, I don't know whether he would want to give them asylum straight up or whether like me he would want to insist that they replace other refugees.
    O, wait, they are, just as I said..

  7. #35
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  8. #36


    "As land seizures based on skin color shows, South Africa is once again becoming a place where an entire group of people is targeted for discrimination and violence on the basis of their skin color. We oppose that obviously. It was wrong 25 years ago, it is wrong now.” ...

    "OK say defenders of the South African government in this country, the [white] South African government also seized land on racial grounds. That is absolutely true, they did do that. And it is one of the reasons so many decent people opposed Apartheid. Apartheid was awful and wrong. … Now our elites endorse the idea of a racial spoils system.” …

    “Our ruling class now believes in collective punishment. That is the opposite of justice. Nobody is alleging that individual farm owners in South Africa stole their land. Instead they claim that people who resemble them [hundreds of years ago] did, and that is enough. Our elites see no problem with this standard. That should worry you. A lot."

    “If you got mugged, how would you feel about imprisoning someone who just happened to look like the mugger? How about the mugger’s children? Should they be punished too? If those sound like insane questions, that’s because they are. … In the west, we punish only the guilty. We do not punish their descendants or everyone with the same hair and eye color. … Now the people who run our country aren’t so sure," …
    Last edited by AZJoe; 09-01-2018 at 10:13 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  9. #37
    IMF Supports South Africa Land Theft Provided It's "Rules Based"


    byMike Mish Shedlock
    17 hrs-edited


    A land grab in Zimbabwe led to capital and human flight followed by hyperinflation. South Africa is on a similar path.
    The ruling African National Congress (ANC) plans to change the constitution to allow the expropriation of land without compensation, as most of it is still owned by members of the white minority.
    The ANC announced the plans, backed off them but now they are back on again, this time with IMF Backing Provided it's 'Rules Based'.
    The debate erupted again last week when U.S. President Donald Trump said he had asked Secretary of State Mike Pompeo to study South African “land and farm seizures” and the “killing of farmers”. South Africa accused Trump of stoking racial divisions.
    The IMF Fund’s senior resident representative in South Africa Montfort Mlachila told Reuters “We are in full support of the need to undertake land reforms in order to address the issues of inequality.”
    Land Reform?
    We are not talking about land reform, we are talking about a land grab theft.
    The ANC announced the plan, backed off and now it appears the plan is back on, with support from the IMF.
    IMF Financial Support
    Mlachila said South Africa was not expected to seek IMF financial support due to its deep domestic financial markets and access to international markets for financing its balance of payments and fiscal deficits.
    “We really don’t see much need for recourse to financing from the IMF,” Mlachila said.
    If there is human and capital flight after this theft, South Africa will indeed be headed for IMF support.
    Recall that the hyperinflation in Zimbabwe began with a land grab in the interest of "fairness".
    In the sake of "fairness" the Zimbabwe currency went to zero, for everybody.
    Trump's Controversial Tweet

    Donald J. Trump
    ✔@realDonaldTrump


    I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @TuckerCarlson @FoxNews
    9:28 PM - Aug 22, 2018








    NPR: The U.S. Embassy cited a recent report by AgriSA, a nonprofit industry group that represents 70,000 commercial farmers, that estimated that there were 47 farm murders from 2017 to 2018, fewer than at any time in the past 19 years. Police records documented 74 farm murders out of a total of 19,016 total murders in South Africa between April 2016 and March 2017.
    Customers Must Honor Home loan Payments even if Land is Seized
    Nedbank says Customers Must Honor Home loan Payments even if Land is Seized.
    A South African bank has sparked a firestorm of criticism after informing customers they would still have to pay off their mortgage even if their property is seized by the government.
    In an email circulating on social media, an official from Nedbank — one of the country’s big five banks — informed the customer that “bond payments remain due” regardless of any expropriation, “with or without compensation”.
    A Nedbank spokesman said clients were urged to “be patient as this process unfolds”. “Until there’s further clarity on this process, it is business as usual at Nedbank,” he said.
    It comes as tensions reach fever pitch after Donald Trump’s controversial comments last week on the racially charged issue of land redistribution sparked an international incident and accusations the US President was peddling a “white supremacist” conspiracy theory.
    Civil rights group Afriforum, which represents the white Afrikaner minority, alleges that white farmers are being targeted in a brutal campaign of politically motivated farm attacks.
    The exact numbers of people killed in such attacks is disputed. The AgriSA union representing commercial farmers says the number was 47 last year, Afriforum says the real number is 84.
    Bottom Line
    There are a lot of charges and suppositions on both sides that obscure one simple point: One does not fix injustice with more injustice.
    Any plan to confiscate land in the name of "justice" is not just and is bound to fail.
    Mike "Mish" Shedlock
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

    Ⅎ˥ƎSWIH ˥˥I⋊ ⊥,NᗡIᗡ NƎI⊥SԀƎ

    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  10. #38
    Thnx AZjoe

    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post



    Hateful Heather Hardly Hears Him
    S. Africa @ 1:47


  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Customers Must Honor Home loan Payments even if Land is Seized
    Nedbank says Customers Must Honor Home loan Payments even if Land is Seized.
    A South African bank has sparked a firestorm of criticism after informing customers they would still have to pay off their mortgage even if their property is seized by the government.
    In an email circulating on social media, an official from Nedbank — one of the country’s big five banks — informed the customer that “bond payments remain due” regardless of any expropriation, “with or without compensation”.
    A Nedbank spokesman said clients were urged to “be patient as this process unfolds”. “Until there’s further clarity on this process, it is business as usual at Nedbank,” he said.

    What are they going to do? Foreclose?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by goldenequity View Post
    Thnx AZjoe








    Hateful Heather Hardly Hears Him
    S. Africa @ 1:47

    The empire has spoken, the Brits have decided to finish off the Boers, they have always wanted to:

    Is Britain Backing South Africa's Land Confiscations From White Farmers?

    It will take more action from Trump or someone else than just a tweet to prevent civil war and/or genocide.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  13. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The empire has spoken, the Brits have decided to finish off the Boers, they have always wanted to:

    Is Britain Backing South Africa's Land Confiscations From White Farmers?

    It will take more action from Trump or someone else than just a tweet to prevent civil war and/or genocide.
    May's comments were precisely about preventing genocide.

    She endorsed "legal" theft of land without compensation.

    In other words, she's alright with the policy, provided it's carried out in an orderly, non-rapey-or-murdery fashion.

    Monstrous, but what else would you expect from a politician, i.e. person who's made a career of robbing Peter to pay Paul?

    ...I might add, it's pretty hilarious that President Eminent Domain suddenly cares about land theft.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    May's comments were precisely about preventing genocide.

    She endorsed "legal" theft of land without compensation.

    In other words, she's alright with the policy, provided it's carried out in an orderly, non-rapey-or-murdery fashion.

    Monstrous, but what else would you expect from a politician, i.e. person who's made a career of robbing Peter to pay Paul?

    ...I might add, it's pretty hilarious that President Eminent Domain suddenly cares about land theft.
    Everyone knows that once the land is taken everything else the whites have will be targeted next, if genocide doesn't take place along the way it will once the whites have been stripped of all wealth or ability to fight back.

    Also the land theft is inextricably connected to "kill the Boer", once it begins it will not be conducted in an orderly fashion, for every farm seized "legally" five will be seized by violent mobs.

    Aside from everything else it is quite clear that the Boers have learned from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, they will not peacefully submit to the coming horrors, land theft = civil war and attempted genocide.

    May is perfectly aware of all of the above and is coming as close as she can to endorsing the final elimination of the Boers while still hiding behind the kind of excuse you are giving.

    I have never liked Trump's use of eminent domain but it never involved calls for genocide.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Everyone knows that once the land is taken everything else the whites have will be targeted next, if genocide doesn't take place along the way it will once the whites have been stripped of all wealth or ability to fight back.

    Also the land theft is inextricably connected to "kill the Boer", once it begins it will not be conducted in an orderly fashion, for every farm seized "legally" five will be seized by violent mobs.

    Aside from everything else it is quite clear that the Boers have learned from Rhodesia/Zimbabwe, they will not peacefully submit to the coming horrors, land theft = civil war and attempted genocide.
    It's a matter of speculation, but I expect the thieving process will be relatively orderly, and the farmers will put up little resistance.

    I certainly hope so (since there is no way in hell they would win if they decided to resist; they would only be killed).

    As I believe I mentioned to you a few days ago, there is only one good solution to this problem, and anti-colonialists such as yourself don't like it.

    So, che sara sara.

    May is perfectly aware of all of the above and is coming as close as she can to endorsing the final elimination of the Boers while still hiding behind the kind of excuse you are giving.
    She's saying "don't murder the white people, please" in a way which doesn't damage Britain's relations with Africa.

    ...with whom they hope and will need to do a lot of business after losing the European market next year.

    I have never liked Trump's use of eminent domain but it never involved calls for genocide.
    Sure, but Trump's interest in the matter is obvious, no?

    It's part of the "foreigners are bad" (so don't blame me/us for your problems) narrative.

    You don't actually think that Trump cares about property rights, do you?

    If so, go consult with the farmers who own land near the Mexican border.

    Or...virtually anything he's said about government policy ever.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    She's saying "don't murder the white people, please" in a way which doesn't damage Britain's relations with Africa.

    ...with whom they hope and will need to do a lot of business after losing the European market next year.
    She is saying "go ahead with our blessing, we just can't come out and endorse the genocide openly but we will ignore it."




    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Sure, but Trump's interest in the matter is obvious, no?

    It's part of the "foreigners are bad" (so don't blame me/us for your problems) narrative.

    You don't actually think that Trump cares about property rights, do you?

    If so, go consult with the farmers who own land near the Mexican border.

    Or...virtually anything he's said about government policy ever.
    So you don't think he cares about genocide?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    She is saying "go ahead with our blessing, we just can't come out and endorse the genocide openly but we will ignore it."
    I see no reason why Theresa May would be positively in favor of murdering Afrikaners. She probably doesn't care, mind you, just as politicians don't generally care about people being murdered, but they also don't generally favor murdering people unless it helps them win elections. In this case, May's position would appear to be a balancing act between the Tories who are sympathetic to the Afrikaners for nationalistic reasons (not because of respect for property, by and large), and the other Tories or Britons in general who are ignorantly sympathetic to the black Africans' self-imposed, post-colonial plight. So she's walking that tightrope. This reality-based explanation might be contrasted with the "white genocide" narrative (according to which May [obviously a member of the Deep State, Jesuits, Elders or Zion, Freemasons, and/or reptilian conspiracy] is licking her chops at the elimination of the Europeans peoples) which the nationalist press is exploiting these sad events to promote.

    So you don't think he cares about genocide?
    Depends; does caring about it get him applause?

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What are they going to do? Foreclose?
    I imagine they will do what the state does here: deny exit...leaving them to be slaughtered at leisure.

    Confirmed according to this report.

    Bank Tells South African Farmers They Will Have to Pay Debts for Property Seized by the State

    https://www.breitbart.com/london/201...-seized-state/

    2 Sep 20183,445

    South African farmers subjected to land expropriation without compensation will still have to pay off their debts for property which has been seized by the state, according to a major bank.

    In an email from Nedbank widely circulated on social media, now confirmed as genuine by Head of Group Media Relations Kedibonea Molopyane, according to The South African, farmers are warned that their debts will have to be paid in full even after their property is confiscated by the government.

    It reads as follows:

    “It is important to note the Home Loan agreement is subject to a contractual agreement, and bond payments remain due and payable until such time that the bond is paid in full irrespective of any form of land expropriation – with or without compensation. We would encourage you to continue with the bond payments until such time a determination is made.”

    The African National Congress (ANC) under President Cyril Ramaphosa passed a motion for the expropriation of land without compensation in February 2018, originally moved by its former youth leader Julius Malema — who now heads the Economic Freedom Fighters (EFF), a radical black nationalist and Marxist-Leninist party.

    This motion was withdrawn after U.S. President Donald Trump publicly intervened to challenge the policy, widely recognised as being geared towards dispossessing the country’s white minority, as happened in Zimbabwe in the 2000s — with disastrous consequences.

    “I have asked Secretary of State [Mike Pompeo] to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers,” he tweeted, referring to statistics compiled by civil rights groups such as AfriForum which show farmers are facing a disproportionate level of attacks, often marked by extreme brutality.


    Donald J. Trump
    ✔ @realDonaldTrump
    I have asked Secretary of State @SecPompeo to closely study the South Africa land and farm seizures and expropriations and the large scale killing of farmers. “South African Government is now seizing land from white farmers.” @tuckerCarlson @foxNews
    10:28 PM - Aug 22, 2018
    136K
    93.8K people are talking about this
    Twitter Ads info and privacy
    However, observers such as independent journalist Laren Southern, who helped to bring the issues facing South Africa’s white minority to international attention with her Farmlands documentary earlier in 2018, have cautioned people not to celebrate too soon.

    Miss Southern believes the motion has only been withdrawn to make way for a more thoroughgoing constitutional amendment which will remove any potential legal issues with respect to seizing white farmers’ private property — an interpretation which would seem to be borne out by the ANC’s public statements on how it intends to move land expropriation without compensation forward.

  20. #47
    With South Africa reeling amid concerns of land expropriation, the rand tumbling amid broad emerging market fears and the local economy pressured by collapsing consumer spending, moments ago the Pretoria-based Statistics South Africa announced that Q2 GDP contracted at a 0.7% annualized rate, missing expectations of a 0.6% increase, and together with the sharp drop in Q1 GDP, South Africa has now officially entered its first recession since 2009.

    There is a certain "rhyming" to this event because as Bloomberg notes, South Africa's new President Cyril Ramaphosa suffered the same false start as his predecessor nine years ago: a recession in his first six months in office.
    The decline was largely due to a collapse in agriculture and the farming sector - to be expected at a time when white farmers don't know if they will be allowed to keep their land or have it be forcibly expropriated - and a parallel drop in consumer spending.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...irst-time-2009
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    William Hutt, the late University of Cape Town economist who was an anti-apartheid voice within the academic community, wrote in his 1964 book, titled The Economics of the Colour Bar, that one of the supreme tragedies of the human condition is that those who have been the victims of injustices or oppression "can often be observed to be inflicting not dissimilar injustices upon other races." In 2001, Andrew Kenny wrote an article titled "Black People Aren't Animals — But That's How Liberals Treat Them." Kenny asked whether South Africa is doomed to follow the rest of Africa into oblivion. Kenny gave a "no" answer to his question, but he was not very optimistic because of the pattern seen elsewhere in sub-Saharan Africa. He argued that ordinary Africans were better off under colonialism. Colonial masters never committed anything near the murder and genocide seen under black rule in Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Nigeria, Mozambique, Somalia and other countries, where millions of blacks have been slaughtered in unspeakable ways, including being hacked to death, boiled in oil, set on fire and dismembered. Kenny said that if as many elephants, zebras and lions were as ruthlessly slaughtered, the world's leftists would be in a tizzy. Ghanaian economist George Ayittey expressed a similar complaint in his book Africa Betrayed: "White rulers in South Africa could be condemned, but not black African leaders guilty of the same political crimes." Moeletsi Mbeki, a brother of former South African President Thabo Mbeki's and deputy chairman of the South African Institute of International Affairs, an independent think tank based at the University of the Witwatersrand, said in 2004 that Africa was in a spiral of decline. "The average African is poorer than during the age of colonialism," he said.

    More at: https://www.thenewamerican.com/revie...frica-question
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    From Daniel Friedman, Citizen.co.za, "White existence is a crime, says BLF spokesperson":
    The BLF spokesperson has posted views reflecting his party's belief that all white people in South Africa are criminals by virtue of their existence.
    Black First, Land First spokesperson Lindsay Maasdorp has told the author of this article and others about the controversial party that my "existence is a crime."
    He also repeated his party's slogan, "land or death."

    [...]Maasdorp’s assertion that, as a white person, “my existence is a crime,” provides some insight into the party’s apparent belief that, due to the theft of land by white people during colonisation and apartheid, all white South Africans are therefore criminals, regardless of when they were born and what their political views, history or affiliations may be.
    At the recent land hearings held in parliament, Mngxitama called for section 25 of the Constitution to be scrapped entirely to ensure that all land owned by white people is returned to their black counterparts.
    The BLF leader said this section should be replaced with a declaration that all land owned by white people in South Africa was stolen property.
    Mngxitama has repeatedly made the assertion that absolutely all land occupied by white South Africans should be expropriated.
    This makes the party the most extreme in South Africa when it comes to the land issue and in its attitude to white people in general.
    They have been accused of hate speech by the South African Human Rights Commision, who have recommended that the party be prevented from contesting the 2019 elections on the grounds that they have made statements violating the Electoral Act.
    Maasdorp has come under fire in the past for his posting on both Facebook and Twitter that “I have aspirations to kill white people, and this must be achieved!”
    As Turkish state media outlet TRT World assured us recently, it's not that white farmers are being "targeted" in South Africa, but instead "farm attacks are just part of a greater violent crime problem" and "there's no reliable data to suggest that white farmers are targeted more than anyone else."

    No doubt Maasdorp's "aspirations to kill white people" are just general aspirations to kill people generally and white South Africans are not being targeted!
    * * *

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-land-or-death
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    William Hutt, the late University of Cape Town economist who was an anti-apartheid voice within the academic community, wrote in his 1964 book, titled The Economics of the Colour Bar, that one of the supreme tragedies of the human condition is that those who have been the victims of injustices or oppression "can often be observed to be inflicting not dissimilar injustices upon other races." In 2001, Andrew Kenny wrote an article titled "Black People Aren't Animals — But That's How Liberals Treat Them." Kenny asked whether South Africa is doomed to follow the rest of Africa into oblivion. Kenny gave a "no" answer to his question, but he was not very optimistic because of the pattern seen elsewhere in sub-Saharan Africa. He argued that ordinary Africans were better off under colonialism. Colonial masters never committed anything near the murder and genocide seen under black rule in Rwanda, Burundi, Uganda, Nigeria, Mozambique, Somalia and other countries, where millions of blacks have been slaughtered in unspeakable ways, including being hacked to death, boiled in oil, set on fire and dismembered. Kenny said that if as many elephants, zebras and lions were as ruthlessly slaughtered, the world's leftists would be in a tizzy. Ghanaian economist George Ayittey expressed a similar complaint in his book Africa Betrayed: "White rulers in South Africa could be condemned, but not black African leaders guilty of the same political crimes." Moeletsi Mbeki, a brother of former South African President Thabo Mbeki's and deputy chairman of the South African Institute of International Affairs, an independent think tank based at the University of the Witwatersrand, said in 2004 that Africa was in a spiral of decline. "The average African is poorer than during the age of colonialism," he said.
    Repeated, bolded, and underlined for emphasis...

    The essential cause is economic (i.e. societies too poor to finance their own security suddenly losing foreign subsidies).

    The result is very weak states and so "anarcho-tyranny."

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Repeated, bolded, and underlined for emphasis...

    The essential cause is economic
    Of course it is.

    And how do you get "un-poor"?

    By adopting Western ideals and systems of free markets, property rights, individual liberty and rule of law.

    All of which are being dismissed as racist and oppressive.

    And so, the South Africans will soon be eating zoo animals like their fellow compatriots in Venezuela.

    Or each other, like Amin's Uganda.

    That's not how I want to live, that's not the legacy I want for my children and why I have picked up the banner of the legacy of white western Europe and am willing to defend it, warts, failures, self loathing and all.

    You can prattle on about "division" and "both sides being played" and so on, I won't deny that there is something to that.

    But these last three years have made it clear that I have no common bond and no common purpose with the majority of AmeriKunts that identify as modern day Bolsheviks. They are the enemy in a political death match.

    One problem at a time...
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 09-20-2018 at 11:03 AM.

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Of course it is.

    And how do you get "un-poor"?

    By adopting Western ideals and systems of free markets, property rights, individual liberty and rule of law.

    All of which are being dismissed as racist and oppressive.

    And so, the South Africans will soon be eating zoo animals like their fellow compatriots in Venezuela.

    Or each other, like Amin's Uganda.

    That's not how I want to live, that's not the legacy I want for my children and why I have picked up the banner of the legacy of white western Europe and am willing to defend it, warts, failures, self loathing and all.

    You can prattle on about "division" and "both sides being played" and so on, I won't deny that there is something to that.

    But these last three years have made it clear that I have no common bond and no common purpose with the majority of AmeriKunts that identify as modern day Bolsheviks. They are the enemy in a political death match.

    One problem at a time...
    It's not about ideals or culture, if that's what you're suggesting.

    Having brigands roaming around looting and pillaging is not an ideal an an expression of the local culture.

    It is the situation which exists anywhere, in any society, when the state is too weak.

    The exact same situation would emerge in Europe (or reemerge, as this is how it once was) if the economy collapsed to African levels.

    As for why Africa is poor in the first place, that's a longer story, but the short term problem is precisely the lack of security for property.

    It's a vicious cycle: not inescapable, but only slowly escapable (as order only slowly emerged in Europe in centuries past).

    Things could be dramatically sped up through foreign support.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-20-2018 at 11:16 AM.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    Things could be dramatically sped up through foreign support.
    Things could be dramatically sped up by withholding all foreign support.

    There is no reason for tax dollars to EVER go to Africa.

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    Things could be dramatically sped up by withholding all foreign support.
    The current model of aid for Africa is counterproductive, because it focuses on the wrong things.

    For example, we subsidize the construction of some highway (built by a US contractor, of course), which the country can't really afford.

    Meanwhile, the brigands keep roaming the countryside, discouraging whatever economic growth the highway was allegedly meant to generate.

    Support should be for security, period. Help them build a functional army, police force, court system.

    In other words, do what the colonial governments did in the past.

    This could be done through direct colonial rule, or, maybe more realistically these days, by finding a local leader to finance.

    There is no reason for tax dollars to EVER go to Africa.
    If you mean: why should Americans have to subsidize Africans' security?

    I reply: why should New Yorkers have to subsidize Californians' security?

    Why should Manhattanites have to subsidize Staten Islanders' security?

    etc

    Unless you're an anarchist, you recognize the legitimacy of socializing the costs of security.

    There's no principled difference (on libertarian principles, anyway) between doing this intra-nationally or inter-nationally.
    Last edited by r3volution 3.0; 09-20-2018 at 11:31 AM.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    The current model of aid for Africa is counterproductive, because it focuses on the wrong things.

    For example, we subsidize the construction of some highway (built by a US contractor, of course), which the country can't really afford.

    Meanwhile, the brigands keep roaming the countryside, discouraging whatever economic growth the highway was allegedly meant to generate.

    Support should be for security, period. Help them build a functional army, police force, court system.

    In other words, do what the colonial governments did in the past.

    This could be done through direct colonial rule, or, maybe more realistically these days, by finding a local leader to finance.



    If you mean: why should Americans have to subsidize Africans' security?

    I reply: why should New Yorkers have to subsidize Californians' security?

    Why should Manhattanites have to subsidize Staten Islanders' security?

    etc

    There's no principled difference.
    There is no reason for tax dollars to EVER go to Africa.

    Nothing is gained for the American taxpayer.

    If you want to send your money or provide your labor then have at it, I want no part of their troubles.

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    There is no reason for tax dollars to EVER go to Africa.

    Nothing is gained for the American taxpayer.

    If you want to send your money or provide your labor then have at it, I want no part of their troubles.
    As I said above, non-anarchists already recognize the legitimacy of socializing the costs of security.

    ...that is what the state is, a socialized security system.

    So, I guess either you're an anarchist, or you draw an arbitrary line between subsidizing this group and that group?



  31. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post

    There's no principled difference (on libertarian principles, anyway) between doing this intra-nationally or inter-nationally.
    I'll never buy into policing the world.

    I don't buy into the amount of policing that goes on in the USA.

    Life is dangerous and neither you or the Africans are entitled to security I pay for.

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    It's not about ideals or culture, if that's what you're suggesting.

    Having brigands roaming around looting and pillaging is not an ideal an an expression of the local culture.

    It is the situation which exists anywhere, in any society, when the state is too weak.

    The exact same situation would emerge in Europe (or reemerge, as this is how it once was) if the economy collapsed to African levels.

    As for why Africa is poor in the first place, that's a longer story, but the short term problem is precisely the lack of security for property.

    It's a vicious cycle: not inescapable, but only slowly escapable (as order only slowly emerged in Europe in centuries past).

    Things could be dramatically sped up through foreign support.
    So...let me see if I've got this right:

    The only way a free society can exist is by being having a powerful state?

    That's contradictory, and demonstrably false.

    Culture most certainly is a determining factor in this.

    A common culture and accepted norms removes the need for a massive state.

    The only reason for heavy handed authoritarian police states to exist is either to force the citizenry to accept some manner of insane economic ideas, usually based in some form of collectivism and central planning, or to keep a lid on a bubbling stew of "diversity": clashing and opposing cultures, ethnicities, nationalities and politics.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    The only reason for heavy handed authoritarian police states to exist is either to force the citizenry to accept some manner of insane economic ideas, usually based in some form of collectivism and central planning, or to keep a lid on a bubbling stew of "diversity": clashing and opposing cultures, ethnicities, nationalities and politics.
    An authoritarian state is the only reason there are culture clashes, diversity and so on.

    Get rid of the state that protects these bad ideas and policies and there will be no conflict in less than 60 days.

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    This could be done through direct colonial rule, or, maybe more realistically these days, by finding a local leader to finance.
    Oh yeah, like that's worked so well in the past.

    Look, the anti-racists are right on this.

    Colonialism and empire is baaaaad.

    I'm sick of carrying the white man's burden...let the Red Chinese do it for the next century.

    If you mean: why should Americans have to subsidize Africans' security?

    I reply: why should New Yorkers have to subsidize Californians' security?

    Why should Manhattanites have to subsidize Staten Islanders' security?
    Short answer, they should not.

    There's no principled difference (on libertarian principles, anyway) between doing this intra-nationally or inter-nationally.
    Unless you are prepared to give South Africans right to US court access and representation, then yes, there most certainly is.

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 18
    Last Post: 05-22-2018, 05:15 PM
  2. Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-10-2018, 07:19 PM
  3. Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-08-2017, 11:41 AM
  4. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 06-27-2017, 10:02 PM
  5. South African President Calls For Confiscating White-Owned Land
    By seapilot in forum World News & Affairs
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 03-04-2017, 04:15 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •