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Thread: Mike Lee blocks anti-3D printing gun bill

  1. #1

    Thumbs up Mike Lee blocks anti-3D printing gun bill

    A Republican senator on Tuesday blocked legislation that would ban blueprints of 3D printed guns from being posted online.


    Sen. Bill Nelson (D-Fla.) tried to pass a bill by unanimous consent that would make it illegal to intentionally publish a digital file that programs a 3D printer to manufacture a firearm.




    "The administration has surrendered to the crazed demands of a self-described anarchist who is going to put this up on the internet. He wants to sow chaos. He said so, in our country and across the world by making these blueprints widely available," Nelson said on the Senate floor.


    Under the terms of a court settlement, Defense Distributed is able to start publishing digital blueprints on its website at midnight. But thousands have already been downloaded when some plans were put online early.


    GOP Sen. Mike Lee (Utah) objected to passing the legislation. He noted that while he had just seen the bill for the first time, he had concerns that it would infringe on the First Amendment.


    "Any legislation that comes forth from this body that begins with the following words will attract my attention and should attract the attention of anyone who's concerned about our first amendment and other constitutional rights," Lee said.


    "It begins with the words 'it shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally publish.' That ought to be concerning to us," Lee added.




    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...gun-blueprints
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    "Any legislation that comes forth from this body that begins with the following words will attract my attention and should attract the attention of anyone who's concerned about our first amendment and other constitutional rights," Lee said.


    "It begins with the words 'it shall be unlawful for any person to intentionally publish.' That ought to be concerning to us," Lee added.




    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/3...gun-blueprints
    I'm starting to like this guy. The first time I heard him he was supporting Rand Paul and arguing against the massive spending increase being pushed thru at the last minute.

  4. #3
    MIKE
    LEE

    4
    scotus?


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  5. #4
    Even the Judas NRA came out against 3D guns....
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  6. #5
    It's not like the gun printing designs aren't already out there. Yes, they can't be posted on a website and bought. However the first creator did release the gun design years ago before he was told to withdraw them. Since then it's lived on in torrents and other sites. If anyone wants the 3d gun design it's out there and has been for years with no negative consequences.

    While I realize the easier it is to download and print the easier it is for the real idiots to use and do something stupid it's already too late to stop.
    “…let us teach them that all who draw breath are of equal worth, and that those who seek to press heel upon the throat of liberty, will fall to the cry of FREEDOM!!!” – Spartacus, War of the Damned

    BTC: 1AFbCLYU3G1dkbsSJnk3spWeEwpqYVC2Pq

  7. #6
    Even if you thought banning 3d guns was a good idea (obviously I don't), I don't see how you could ban them without major rights violations in other areas. Are you going to ban the internet? Ban 3d printing?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Even if you thought banning 3d guns was a good idea (obviously I don't), I don't see how you could ban them without major rights violations in other areas. Are you going to ban the internet? Ban 3d printing?

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  9. #8
    The administration has surrendered to the crazed demands of a self-described anarchist
    An anarchist!?! Oh no!!
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  11. #9
    Here's the thing: Even the most ardent gun-rights people here have concerns about just *anyone* being allowed to own a gun.

    Would someone please be willing to answer my questions without mockery?

    1. So far I have only seen one example of this weapon. Are there many different kinds?
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons?
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent?

    I really do not want to control gun ownership. We support gun ownership but are not enthusiasts ourselves. I'm trying to think through this issue in a sane and logical way.
    Do something Dodgers.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Here's the thing: Even the most ardent gun-rights people here have concerns about just *anyone* being allowed to own a gun.

    Would someone please be willing to answer my questions without mockery?

    1. So far I have only seen one example of this weapon. Are there many different kinds?
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons?
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent?

    I really do not want to control gun ownership. We support gun ownership but are not enthusiasts ourselves. I'm trying to think through this issue in a sane and logical way.
    Do you really think the mental incompetents you describe are capable of acquiring the materials,Printer?

    Imagine if they were to get hold of a car.

    and these have been available all MY lifetime.. ( I learned in High School)
    https://www.instructables.com/id/Har...Gauge-Shotgun/

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Here's the thing: Even the most ardent gun-rights people here have concerns about just *anyone* being allowed to own a gun.

    Would someone please be willing to answer my questions without mockery?

    1. So far I have only seen one example of this weapon. Are there many different kinds?
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons?
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent?

    I really do not want to control gun ownership. We support gun ownership but are not enthusiasts ourselves. I'm trying to think through this issue in a sane and logical way.
    Thanks for being the voice of reason in this thread. Many lives could be saved if we could just remove these files from the internet. I'm sure if we make it illegal enough, with worldwide cooperation against these vicious internet files, we can take these 3d blueprints off the internet, so they never harm another child again.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  14. #12
    Just to further highlight

    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Just to further highlight

    Ban welding!!
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  16. #14
    He wants to sow chaos. He said so, in our country and across the world by making these blueprints widely available," Nelson said on the Senate floor.
    Chaos? LOL. As if guns were not widely available all over the world already.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Here's the thing: Even the most ardent gun-rights people here have concerns about just *anyone* being allowed to own a gun.

    Would someone please be willing to answer my questions without mockery?

    1. So far I have only seen one example of this weapon. Are there many different kinds?
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons?
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent?

    I really do not want to control gun ownership. We support gun ownership but are not enthusiasts ourselves. I'm trying to think through this issue in a sane and logical way.
    When asking "should the government...?" the answer is always no. I'd allow people to own nuclear weapons. Full frontal freedom, baby!

    It's never been illegal to make your own weapons.

    1. Are there many different kinds? If not, there soon will be.
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use? See above, but does it matter?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons? Hint: they already have access to materials to make bombs that would be far deadlier.
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent? Parenting is not the proper role of government.

    I always bristle at "we."
    Last edited by angelatc; 08-01-2018 at 10:32 AM.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I'd allow people to own nuclear weapons.
    Would you allow young children to 3d print nuclear weapons in their dad's basement?

    I'm sure that's really the question we're all asking here.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    Would you allow young children to 3d print nuclear weapons in their dad's basement?

    I'm sure that's really the question we're all asking here.
    I would allow Russian toy makers to sell those kits across the internet and in stores.
    *******

    I didn't start out thinking that anti-vax people were fools or impervious to reason, it's from my experience here that I now think that.
    - AmyPi 2014 (RIP)

    Anti-vaxxers, responsible for a 30 percent uptick in totally preventable diseases in the world, have blood on their hands. They shouldn't be considered civilized members of society. If they refuse to listen to a century of scientific studies confirming time and time again that vaccination is an unquestionable good for humanity, then it's time for us to start treating anti-vaxxers as what they are: dangerous and worthy of shame and condemnation. If we can't convince anti-vaxxers to change their minds, we must attach enough social stigma to the delusion that agnostics cease to join them.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Here's the thing: Even the most ardent gun-rights people here have concerns about just *anyone* being allowed to own a gun.

    Would someone please be willing to answer my questions without mockery?

    1. So far I have only seen one example of this weapon. Are there many different kinds?
    2. What kind of ammunition do they use?
    3. Are we really okay with people known to be mentally ill with violent tendencies having access to these weapons?
    4. Are we really okay with young kids having these weapons without parental knowledge and consent?

    I really do not want to control gun ownership. We support gun ownership but are not enthusiasts ourselves. I'm trying to think through this issue in a sane and logical way.
    In answer to your questions. There are limited variations of CAD files, but as tech advances, so do the designs. There are still metal parts that are required, and the rounds are standard bullets (can't print those).


    Here is all you need to know:

    1. It has always been legal to manufacture/build your own firearms for personal use.
    2. Advances in technology don't change that fact
    3. The knowledge for all sorts of dangerous things are online and we don't 'ban' those, do we?
    4. This technology, and its future iterations and advancements, will make any and all attempts at gun control futile. This technology has given humanity a fighting chance for the future.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Do you really think the mental incompetents you describe are capable of acquiring the materials,Printer?
    I didn’t say mentally incompetent. I said mentally ill. There is a huge difference.
    Do something Dodgers.

  23. #20
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
    “They are what they hate.” - B4L


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  24. #21
    Somewhat helpful.

    I think we are going to have a problem when someone uses this kind of weapon to do a mass murder. That’s why I asked about the ammunition. Does the plastic break down with rapid, repeat firing? I seem to remember the Waffle House hero burned his hands when he grabbed the gun. Would a plastic gun hold up to the heat of rapid, repeat firing? Like range practice?

    I’m kind of feeling this kind of weapon might lead to ways to restrict gun ownership, not, not promote it.

    Sorry, not on Twitter.
    Do something Dodgers.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I didn’t say mentally incompetent. I said mentally ill. There is a huge difference.
    Can you explain the difference?
    I am a Prohibited Person. Sort of a Non Human classification. I can't tell any difference..

    https://ryancleckner.com/prohibited-...rm-possession/
    Sort of a Non Human classification.
    Humans have Rights.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 08-01-2018 at 11:03 AM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I think we are going to have a problem when someone uses this kind of weapon to do a mass murder.
    I won't have any problem... I am not disposed to flights of fearful fantasy.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Somewhat helpful.

    I think we are going to have a problem when someone uses this kind of weapon to do a mass murder. That’s why I asked about the ammunition. Does the plastic break down with rapid, repeat firing? I seem to remember the Waffle House hero burned his hands when he grabbed the gun. Would a plastic gun hold up to the heat of rapid, repeat firing? Like range practice?

    I’m kind of feeling this kind of weapon might lead to ways to restrict gun ownership, not, not promote it.

    Sorry, not on Twitter.
    Wow.... you need to read up on a few things.

    First, it costs thousands of dollars to get the mill/printer to make one. A person could buy a whole arsenal of metal weapons for the same cost.
    Second, they are only good for about 1-2 shots before they break under the pressure. They are mostly good at making components of firearms that can be adapted and added to metal gun parts making them cheaper (think stocks, grips, uppers/lowers, etc). Guns still need springs, pins, metal rounds, etc.

    Worrying about one of these being used in a mass shooting is like worrying about a plastic butter knife being used in a mass stabbing.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Can you explain the difference?
    I am a Prohibited Person. Sort of a Non Human classification. I can't tell any difference..

    https://ryancleckner.com/prohibited-...rm-possession/
    Sort of a Non Human classification.
    Humans have Rights.
    Look it up. I asked reasonable questions in a polite and respectful way so I can learn and formulate an opinion.
    Do something Dodgers.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by jllundqu View Post
    Wow.... you need to read up on a few things.
    You are probably right. Asking questions on an open forum with a stated purpose to educate is probably not the best approach. I’m just trying to figure out what kind of capability these weapons have and how to defend a liberty position in today’s world. School starts this week in most communities around me and of course the media and school officials are in fear monger mode. We can’t allow ourselves to be navel gazers. Public discussions should include a liberty argument and that’s what I want to figure out. We can’t be all government schools blah, blah, blah. This is not about school. It’s about constitutional liberty. We have to be able to talk about that with people who have been trained to think there should never be any risk in life and we can and should control every person all the time.

    And there was a police shooting here last week. Everyone’s emotions are running rather high. Having this particular gun issue come up right now is not a good thing for a particularly sensitive community.
    Last edited by euphemia; 08-01-2018 at 11:39 AM.
    Do something Dodgers.

  31. #27
    Public discussions should include a liberty argument...
    It's too bad liberty isn't popular.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    It's too bad liberty isn't popular.
    Of course. And it will become less so unless we learn how to discuss the issues with dissenters without mockery and derision. That’s how education happens.
    Do something Dodgers.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Of course. And it will become less so unless we learn how to discuss the issues with dissenters without mockery and derision. That’s how education happens.
    There was no mockery or derision in my post to you. I stated a fact that you needed to educate yourself on the subject before letting your fears about 'untraceable and undetectable weapons of mass destruction being printed by 5 year olds in Kindergarten class' (I jest). Then I proceeded to educate you on the subject.
    There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.
    -Major General Smedley Butler, USMC,
    Two-Time Congressional Medal of Honor Winner
    Author of, War is a Racket!

    It is not that I am mad, it is only that my head is different from yours.
    - Diogenes of Sinope

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    Look it up. I asked reasonable questions in a polite and respectful way so I can learn and formulate an opinion.
    You made the statement,, You claim some sort of difference and have not even defined any paramaters.
    Mental Illness
    Mental incompetance

    What difference? Because you claim there is a difference..
    "Look it up" you say,,,, Look What up? Do you have your own web page where you define the difference..

    Perhaps you could define Mental Illness and WHO decides what that is..

    And I posted the definition of Prohibited Person.

    You understand that I am Forbidden to have any defensive ability.
    No Gun,, NO Vest,, No Defense.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 08-01-2018 at 12:50 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

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