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Thread: Rand just sold out on Kavanaugh

  1. #91
    shame on Rand. helping liberty lose w/his endorsement of the 4th being trashed.
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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Please do tell, how exactly does it work in Trump era?
    I'm sure Trump took over 100+hours of political strategy courses.
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  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It's called a "dog and pony show"

    Confirmation hearings are a joke, they don't matter. The nominee could say anything he wants, and then as soon as he is confirmed do the exact opposite. There is no way to hold them accountable because they can't be removed unless they somehow break the law (sadly ruling contrary to the law doesn't count).
    So don't hold the hearings and therefore don't air any misgivings one might have?
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  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So don't hold the hearings and therefore don't air any misgivings one might have?
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.

    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy. This isn't even like a vote for Sessions or Pompeo. Kavanaugh will likely be pretty good. He might not be as good as Clarence Thomas or Gorsuch but good enough.

    It isn't like if Kavanaugh wasn't the choice there is automatically someone better that Trump would pick. Most people think Kavanaugh was a better choice than Trump's second choice Hardiman. Calling voting to confirm Kavanaugh a sellout is bananas. I would vote to confirm Kavanaugh in a heartbeat.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
    So why do Congress critters get up in front of Congress and make speeches if it does no good? Here's a bill or appointee, no discussion just vote on it mentality?? Informing people is a bad thing? Common Sense 101.

    You're making a mountain out of a molehill imo.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-04-2018 at 10:00 PM.
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  9. #97

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy.
    Wrong.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So why do Congress critters get up in front of Congress and make speeches if it does no good?
    You don't understand how legislatures work.


    The votes are pre-determined in advance. The hearings are just for show, no actual decisions are made there.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You don't understand how legislatures work.
    Don't be so arrogant. Of course I do


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The votes are pre-determined in advance. The hearings are just for show, no actual decisions are made there.
    You have proof of this?
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  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    You have proof of this?
    Yes, nearly 10 years of experience, and being a professional lobbyist / activist.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Don't be so arrogant. Of course I do


    You have proof of this?
    He's correct. It is the whip's job to get the votes lined up before the vote is called. Bills that don't have the votes to pass already lined up rarely, if ever, make it to a floor vote for passage. The only exceptions are rare like emergency legislation like the TARP bailout that failed the first vote.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    He's correct. It is the whip's job to get the votes lined up before the vote is called. Bills that don't have the votes to pass already lined up rarely, if ever, make it to a floor vote for passage. The only exceptions are rare like emergency legislation like the TARP bailout that failed the first vote.
    So what you're saying is, no one changes their vote based on questions during those hearings? I don't believe that since "evidence" of "wrong doing" is outted during these meetings.

    You said rarely, so you do believe it happens?

    What about Flake and NASA head Jim Bridenstine?
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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    Taxation is Theft

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Yes, nearly 10 years of experience, and being a professional lobbyist / activist.
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 04:21 AM.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    Your ignorance is showing. This has already been explained. Please, try and keep up.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Your ignorance is showing. This has already been explained. Please, try and keep up.

    Because you said so, isn't explaining anything. you - "Do you know who I am?" lol
    Another poster mentioned something but you shouldn't try and take credit for that, since you weren't involved, just to boost your self importance. It hasn't worked in the past so why would it work now?
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 08:30 AM.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So what you're saying is, no one changes their vote based on questions during those hearings? I don't believe that since "evidence" of "wrong doing" is outted during these meetings.
    I'm pretty well convinced the hearings are 99.99% scripted and the votes are already known before the hearings start or before a bill goes to a vote for passage. I guess theoretically if Kav admitted he is a baby rapist or something in the middle of a confirmation hearing that would have an impact but questions that lead to bombshells are never asked in the first place.

    You said rarely, so you do believe it happens?
    I mean, the only example I could think of was 10 years ago and under "crisis" conditions.

    What about Flake and NASA head Jim Bridenstine?
    From a quick review of that situation I'd guess Flake wanted something else in a different piece of legislation and used his vote as leverage to get Bridenstine passed. I don't think Flake's vote change had anything to do with Bridenstine, just a one-off example of politics. It's an interesting example though so thanks for pointing it out but an extremely rare example.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-07-2018 at 03:20 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Why do that when he could just read the written opinions?
    Duh . . . how stupid I am!
    Trump:
    (circa July 2015) : "John McCain is NO 'war hero' . . . - I like people who weren't captured, ok!"
    (circa June 2016) : "How could the FBI NOT indict her !? "

    Jefferson:
    (circa May 1826) : "When angry count to ten before you speak. If very angry, count to one hundred."


  21. #108
    Hell hath no fury like a scorned Matt Collins.
    A sense of danger gives birth to fear. And fear is the time-honored cross for the crucifixion of liberty.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy.
    ...
    Calling voting to confirm Kavanaugh a sellout is bananas. I would vote to confirm Kavanaugh in a heartbeat.
    August 8, 2018 12:06 pm EDT
    Senate Dems make 'unprecedented' FOIA request for Kavanaugh documents
    ". . .documents tied to Kavanaugh's three-year period as staff secretary for President George W. Bush."

    Sen. Blumenthal (D-Conn) added that the move was an "extraordinary step," "unprecedented" and a "last resort"
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4...augh-documents

    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    shame on Rand. helping liberty lose w/his endorsement of the 4th being trashed.
    One could ask themselves "Just who seeks to pervert the Constitution here (?)


    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-10-2018 at 11:38 AM.
    Trump:
    (circa July 2015) : "John McCain is NO 'war hero' . . . - I like people who weren't captured, ok!"
    (circa June 2016) : "How could the FBI NOT indict her !? "

    Jefferson:
    (circa May 1826) : "When angry count to ten before you speak. If very angry, count to one hundred."


  23. #110
    ^^^^^ Says the guy that declared war on his own country at the behest of banking interests, thus throwing the original Constitution out on its ass.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  24. #111
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    ^^^^^ Says the guy that declared war on his own country at the behest of banking interests, thus throwing the original Constitution out on its ass.
    LOL - yeah, I agree with that and was wondering where Abe got that . . . but he did apparently actually say that.
    But are ya' emphasizing Abe as a source to distort what the point of the words are ?

    "invidious discrimination which offends the Constitution" has been used in federal court written opinions.
    Rand sees no evidence that Kavanaugh would pervert the Constitution and should vote to confirm, imho.
    Trump:
    (circa July 2015) : "John McCain is NO 'war hero' . . . - I like people who weren't captured, ok!"
    (circa June 2016) : "How could the FBI NOT indict her !? "

    Jefferson:
    (circa May 1826) : "When angry count to ten before you speak. If very angry, count to one hundred."


  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    A>"What would it take for you to vote for X?"
    B>"......."

    Something like that ? It's politics, Deals are made. It's a game, you need tactics. It's not fair, life isn't either.
    "I am a bird"



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    A>"What would it take for you to vote for X?"
    B>"......."

    Something like that ? It's politics, Deals are made. It's a game, you need tactics. It's not fair, life isn't either.
    What does that have to do with what Rand did? Plus Rand didn't sell out.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-10-2018 at 01:18 PM.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
    Exactly . . .
    It was Sen. DiFi that looked like an idiot at the last confirmation hearings - she got her one vote though!

    Yet, Gorsund talked about his law students and also explained his practice of writing an opinion . . .
    he may go into it not knowing how to decide and then "I try to convince myself."
    Some cases are harder, or it may even come out as a minority dissent - but it is well-thought out.

    Then there is the Declaration of Independence perspective . . .



    "John Hancock didn't want the King of England to have any doubt who was signing this "death warrant if it failed" -

    or learn of a question Professor Gorsund asks his students every semester in Ethics class . . .

    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-11-2018 at 08:40 AM.
    Trump:
    (circa July 2015) : "John McCain is NO 'war hero' . . . - I like people who weren't captured, ok!"
    (circa June 2016) : "How could the FBI NOT indict her !? "

    Jefferson:
    (circa May 1826) : "When angry count to ten before you speak. If very angry, count to one hundred."


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