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Thread: Rand just sold out on Kavanaugh

  1. #91
    shame on Rand. helping liberty lose w/his endorsement of the 4th being trashed.
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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Please do tell, how exactly does it work in Trump era?
    I'm sure Trump took over 100+hours of political strategy courses.
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  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It's called a "dog and pony show"

    Confirmation hearings are a joke, they don't matter. The nominee could say anything he wants, and then as soon as he is confirmed do the exact opposite. There is no way to hold them accountable because they can't be removed unless they somehow break the law (sadly ruling contrary to the law doesn't count).
    So don't hold the hearings and therefore don't air any misgivings one might have?
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  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So don't hold the hearings and therefore don't air any misgivings one might have?
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
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  6. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.

    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy. This isn't even like a vote for Sessions or Pompeo. Kavanaugh will likely be pretty good. He might not be as good as Clarence Thomas or Gorsuch but good enough.

    It isn't like if Kavanaugh wasn't the choice there is automatically someone better that Trump would pick. Most people think Kavanaugh was a better choice than Trump's second choice Hardiman. Calling voting to confirm Kavanaugh a sellout is bananas. I would vote to confirm Kavanaugh in a heartbeat.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
    So why do Congress critters get up in front of Congress and make speeches if it does no good? Here's a bill or appointee, no discussion just vote on it mentality?? Informing people is a bad thing? Common Sense 101.

    You're making a mountain out of a molehill imo.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-04-2018 at 10:00 PM.
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  9. #97

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy.
    Wrong.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So why do Congress critters get up in front of Congress and make speeches if it does no good?
    You don't understand how legislatures work.


    The votes are pre-determined in advance. The hearings are just for show, no actual decisions are made there.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You don't understand how legislatures work.
    Don't be so arrogant. Of course I do


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    The votes are pre-determined in advance. The hearings are just for show, no actual decisions are made there.
    You have proof of this?
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  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    You have proof of this?
    Yes, nearly 10 years of experience, and being a professional lobbyist / activist.
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    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Don't be so arrogant. Of course I do


    You have proof of this?
    He's correct. It is the whip's job to get the votes lined up before the vote is called. Bills that don't have the votes to pass already lined up rarely, if ever, make it to a floor vote for passage. The only exceptions are rare like emergency legislation like the TARP bailout that failed the first vote.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

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  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    He's correct. It is the whip's job to get the votes lined up before the vote is called. Bills that don't have the votes to pass already lined up rarely, if ever, make it to a floor vote for passage. The only exceptions are rare like emergency legislation like the TARP bailout that failed the first vote.
    So what you're saying is, no one changes their vote based on questions during those hearings? I don't believe that since "evidence" of "wrong doing" is outted during these meetings.

    You said rarely, so you do believe it happens?

    What about Flake and NASA head Jim Bridenstine?
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 04:19 AM.
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  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Yes, nearly 10 years of experience, and being a professional lobbyist / activist.
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 04:21 AM.
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  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    Your ignorance is showing. This has already been explained. Please, try and keep up.
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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Your ignorance is showing. This has already been explained. Please, try and keep up.

    Because you said so, isn't explaining anything. you - "Do you know who I am?" lol
    Another poster mentioned something but you shouldn't try and take credit for that, since you weren't involved, just to boost your self importance. It hasn't worked in the past so why would it work now?
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-07-2018 at 08:30 AM.
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  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    So what you're saying is, no one changes their vote based on questions during those hearings? I don't believe that since "evidence" of "wrong doing" is outted during these meetings.
    I'm pretty well convinced the hearings are 99.99% scripted and the votes are already known before the hearings start or before a bill goes to a vote for passage. I guess theoretically if Kav admitted he is a baby rapist or something in the middle of a confirmation hearing that would have an impact but questions that lead to bombshells are never asked in the first place.

    You said rarely, so you do believe it happens?
    I mean, the only example I could think of was 10 years ago and under "crisis" conditions.

    What about Flake and NASA head Jim Bridenstine?
    From a quick review of that situation I'd guess Flake wanted something else in a different piece of legislation and used his vote as leverage to get Bridenstine passed. I don't think Flake's vote change had anything to do with Bridenstine, just a one-off example of politics. It's an interesting example though so thanks for pointing it out but an extremely rare example.
    Last edited by devil21; 08-07-2018 at 03:20 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  20. #107
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Why do that when he could just read the written opinions?
    Duh . . . how stupid I am!

  21. #108
    Hell hath no fury like a scorned Matt Collins.
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  22. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    The guy was a regular speaker at the Federalist Society for 20 years. He isn't Ruth Bader Ginsburg. Rand would be a total fool to vote against this guy.
    ...
    Calling voting to confirm Kavanaugh a sellout is bananas. I would vote to confirm Kavanaugh in a heartbeat.
    August 8, 2018 12:06 pm EDT
    Senate Dems make 'unprecedented' FOIA request for Kavanaugh documents
    ". . .documents tied to Kavanaugh's three-year period as staff secretary for President George W. Bush."

    Sen. Blumenthal (D-Conn) added that the move was an "extraordinary step," "unprecedented" and a "last resort"
    http://thehill.com/homenews/senate/4...augh-documents

    Quote Originally Posted by surf View Post
    shame on Rand. helping liberty lose w/his endorsement of the 4th being trashed.
    One could ask themselves "Just who seeks to pervert the Constitution here (?)


    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-10-2018 at 11:38 AM.

  23. #110
    ^^^^^ Says the guy that declared war on his own country at the behest of banking interests, thus throwing the original Constitution out on its ass.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  24. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    ^^^^^ Says the guy that declared war on his own country at the behest of banking interests, thus throwing the original Constitution out on its ass.
    LOL - yeah, I agree with that and was wondering where Abe got that . . . but he did apparently actually say that.
    But are ya' emphasizing Abe as a source to distort what the point of the words are ?

    "invidious discrimination which offends the Constitution" has been used in federal court written opinions.
    Rand sees no evidence that Kavanaugh would pervert the Constitution and should vote to confirm, imho.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    Because you said so there is no need for proof? We should just listen to you? If someone with 11 years of experience was in agreement with me and offered no proof, they'd then be more believable?
    Like I said, your arrogance is showing.
    A>"What would it take for you to vote for X?"
    B>"......."

    Something like that ? It's politics, Deals are made. It's a game, you need tactics. It's not fair, life isn't either.
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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by luctor-et-emergo View Post
    A>"What would it take for you to vote for X?"
    B>"......."

    Something like that ? It's politics, Deals are made. It's a game, you need tactics. It's not fair, life isn't either.
    What does that have to do with what Rand did? Plus Rand didn't sell out.
    Last edited by loveshiscountry; 08-10-2018 at 01:18 PM.
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  28. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    It does no good to air misgivings, voting is the only sway a Senator has when it comes to confirmation. Civics 101.
    Exactly . . .
    It was Sen. DiFi that looked like an idiot at the last confirmation hearings - she got her one vote though!

    Yet, Gorsund talked about his law students and also explained his practice of writing an opinion . . .
    he may go into it not knowing how to decide and then "I try to convince myself."
    Some cases are harder, or it may even come out as a minority dissent - but it is well-thought out.

    Then there is the Declaration of Independence perspective . . .



    "John Hancock didn't want the King of England to have any doubt who was signing this "death warrant if it failed" -

    or learn of a question Professor Gorsund asks his students every semester in Ethics class . . .

    Last edited by Jan2017; 08-11-2018 at 08:40 AM.

  29. #115
    Is RAND having second thoughts or is he about to really make Mitch McConnell's day tomorrow?

  30. #116
    Quote Originally Posted by revgen View Post
    Rand's decision to vote for Kavanaugh is more disappointing than the Pompeo vote. This is a man who will sit on that bench for his lifetime is he's chosen. Not a good look.

    I know Rand panders to other Republican voters besides libertarians, but he usually did it through media interviews and tweets. Not voting on the Senate floor.
    Rand doesn't pander to Republicans. He is one. He has openly rejected being a libertarian. He panders to libertarians to get them to vote Republican.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

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  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    Rand doesn't pander to Republicans. He is one. He has openly rejected being a libertarian. He panders to libertarians to get them to vote Republican.
    You should start a Thomas Massie page. If he is pure enough for you. I don't know. You set a high bar. Perhaps a gofundme for you yourself. This is a purported activist page. How about a PierzStyx go fund me? Let's do this!

  32. #118
    Rand Paul is balanced and we need leaders like that. For example: https://www.businessinsider.com/rand...-drones-2015-4

    Rand was right to stand by Obama in this instance.

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    You should start a Thomas Massie page. If he is pure enough for you. I don't know. You set a high bar. Perhaps a gofundme for you yourself. This is a purported activist page. How about a PierzStyx go fund me? Let's do this!
    First, saying Rand isn't a libertarian shouldn't be controversial. I'm only quoting the man himself.

    “I’m not a libertarian." -Rand Paul

    http://reason.com/blog/2013/05/13/ra...cals-that-he-d
    He is a Republican. And every now and then he'll pander to libertarians. He'll not oppose the War on Drugs, just want to lessen the severity of the penalties. He has no problem with the government using legal force against businesses that choose to refuse service to people in order to enforce a top down ideal of equality. He keeps bouncing around on the issue of military spending- sometimes opposing and other times supporting it. He has no problem with the government using drones against civilians as long as the government has a warrant, perhaps forgetting the government writes its own warrants now. He has also endorsed the use of drones by police against people. He has openly endorsed the imprisonment of people for listening to "radical political speeches." There is more here, but I won't bore you with the full list. And now you have him saying stuff like this on Fox:

    Paul said he’s “willing to meet” with the judge to see how he would rule on other issues. “There are 10 rights…10 amendments listed in the Bill of Rights, and so the Fourth Amendment’s one of them,” Paul said. “So we’re already down one, let’s see how he does on the other nine.”

    https://abovethelaw.com/2018/07/rand...avanaugh/?rf=1
    Ignoring that there are more than ten human rights, you've got Rand suggesting he will vote for Kavanaugh even though Rand knows Kavanaugh endorsed Bush using torture and doesn't believe in the Fourth Amendment. The evidence seems clear. The man isn't a libertarian who panders to Republicans. He is a Republican that every now and then panders to libertarians.

    As for setting a high bar, you're absolutely correct. I'm often derided for being a "purist" or an "anarchist" for insisting on sticking to fundamental libertarian principles such as the Non-Aggression Principle as it applies both to individual human action and mass government action. But setting a high bar is how you get Ron Paul. Low bars is how you get Cheeto Mussolini. Compromising on human liberty means surrendering your liberty in ever increasing parts. It is the road that has led us to where we are now. And it is the road that will lead us only further into oligarchy, authoritarianism, and oppression.
    Last edited by PierzStyx; 09-28-2018 at 12:22 PM.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by homahr View Post
    Rand Paul is balanced and we need leaders like that. For example: https://www.businessinsider.com/rand...-drones-2015-4

    Rand was right to stand by Obama in this instance.
    That article is a total $#@! show.

    So Rand claims to be against using drones to murder innocent civilians but the praises Obama for murdering innocent Americana nd Italian civilians with drones? Insane. And his application is horrific. By saying it is okay for the government to murder hostages as long as their captors are also murdered and then applying it to domestic police situations, he is saying that it is okay for the police to respond to hostage situations by murdering all the hostages as long as they murder the captives too. In short, he just endorsed murderous police state violence against innocent people.

    That isn't balanced. That is the exact opposite. That is mentally unbalanced. It is crazy in every sense of the word. It just goe sto show you how much of a pandering sociopath Rand really is.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan



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