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Thread: Rand just sold out on Kavanaugh

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by PursuePeace View Post
    Some things aren't always what they appear to be.
    Things are exactly as they appear. Rand just sold out on his core issue.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How did Ron prove it false? What did Ron Paul ever accomplish beyond educating people about how votes should be cast?
    Ron kept getting elected despite being one of the most hated members of Congress by his colleagues. I understand it isn't a perfect comparison but the point still stands.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who were the better options from Trump’s list?
    That's some good pessimism you got there I didn't even consider that they could give us someone worse if Kavanaugh doesn't get the votes..

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    In a world where they don't control the media and the narrative maybe. They could always use any major opportunity to bury Rand Paul politically with a president that is as popular with their party as Trump is.

    We gotta take into account that the executive branch is not working for our ideals and would love to shut Rand up.

    You can't think about Trump's fake MAGA persona you got to think of the Trump that said someone needs to primary Rand Paul in 2016
    I don't think things are quite that simple. I don't think Rand and Trump hate each other and I don't think they are trying to hurt each other. Trump does a lot of good things and I think Rand sees that. And I think that these two don't see each other as the enemy. But unfortunately Trump is not ideological or predictable so sometimes he aligns with liberty values, and sometimes he doesn't.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who were the better options from Trumpís list?
    Mike Lee for starters.

    But it doesn't matter, Rand can vote against Kavanaugh with a straight face.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  8. #36
    Rand's decision to vote for Kavanaugh is more disappointing than the Pompeo vote. This is a man who will sit on that bench for his lifetime is he's chosen. Not a good look.

    I know Rand panders to other Republican voters besides libertarians, but he usually did it through media interviews and tweets. Not voting on the Senate floor.

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Uh no.... Kavanaugh hates the 4th Amendment and has stated so very clearly. There is no excuse for this.

    Judge Napolitano said Randy Barnett would be his top choice on Tom Woods' show. Randy Barnett is Rand's go to legal guy. Rand Barnett is a yes on Kavanaugh,

    "Is Brett Kavanaugh such a nominee? Some libertarians have been skeptical of this, and I have been spending a bit of time bringing myself up to speed on his record. There are a few sour notes--two in particular--but on balance, his record is strong. He is pretty ardently committed to textualism--more on this below--and the separation of powers. And he is skeptical about judicial deference to administrative agencies. He has a superb Second Amendment opinion in Heller 2 in which he rejects the tiers of scrutiny approach that many circuits have been using to gut the Supreme Court's decisions in"

    https://reason.com/volokh/2018/07/29...bertarian-case

    Hereís The Libertarian Case For Brett Kavanaughís Supreme Court Nomination
    https://thefederalist.com/2018/07/29...rt-nomination/

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Who were the better options from Trump’s list?
    Why do SCOTUS nominees need to be on Trump's list, can't we have someone that will honor the constitution instead?

    Reject them all, until he nominates someone law abiding.
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Ron kept getting elected despite being one of the most hated members of Congress by his colleagues. I understand it isn't a perfect comparison but the point still stands.

    FWIW, Ron is borderline terrible on judicial issues. Ron thinks states like in Griswold vs Connecticut can just ban contraception. Ron thinks in Lawrence vs Texas states can have laws banning sodomy. I wouldn't automatically concede Ron would be better than Kavanaugh on the bench. I think he probably would be but Ron would not be the examplar on legal opinions.

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Things are exactly as they appear. Rand just sold out on his core issue.
    I guess we'll find out.
    There is only one kind of freedom and that's individual liberty. Our lives come from our creator
    and our liberty comes from our creator. It has nothing to do with government granting it. -Ron Paul

    RAND 20/20



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    He just posted it on his Facebook page... lame.
    Rand Paul made such a big deal about the 4th amendment throughout his political career that if there is any place to make a stand on, this is it. Even only to retain some of the credibility he has on this issue. The man squandered his presidential campaign trying to court voters by telling them how govt plans of searching millennial's cellphones when they clearly cared more about bread and butter economic issues, he has done filibusters on it on the senate floor and now he will just give in and vote for Kavanaugh?

    Anyone one who still thinks any solution will come from a politician/politics needs to wake up and smell the roses.


    what have people learned from the disaster of the Obama years? Do they understand the true nature of deep state power? The true continuity of agenda that takes place even as the pendulum swings from left to right? Or are they simply going to fall for the same trick, again and again, until the final nail is placed in the coffin of human freedom?
    James Corbett
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Judge Napolitano said Randy Barnett would be his top choice on Tom Woods' show. Randy Barnett is Rand's go to legal guy. Rand Barnett is a yes on Kavanaugh,
    Randy, who is normally good, has it absolutely wrong and has apparently not read Kavanaugh's opinion on giving the NSA unlimited spying powers. This is the problem with listening to people from think tanks sometimes.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Rand Paul made such a big deal about the 4th amendment throughout his political career that if there is any place to make a stand on, this is it. Even only to retain some of the credibility he has on this issue. The man squandered his presidential campaign trying to court voters by telling them how govt plans of searching millennial's cellphones when they clearly cared more about bread and butter economic issues, he has done filibusters on it on the senate floor and now he will just give in and vote for Kavanaugh?
    Bingo.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    FWIW, Ron is borderline terrible on judicial issues. Ron thinks states like in Griswold vs Connecticut can just ban contraception. Ron thinks in Lawrence vs Texas states can have laws banning sodomy. I wouldn't automatically concede Ron would be better than Kavanaugh on the bench. I think he probably would be but Ron would not be the examplar on legal opinions.
    Don't confuse libertarianism with federalism/Constitutionalism.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Ron kept getting elected despite being one of the most hated members of Congress by his colleagues. I understand it isn't a perfect comparison but the point still stands.
    Maybe Rand knows how to actually get some things done, he has already gotten more done than Ron did, we needed Ron to come first and start the movement but we need people who get things done too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #46
    I'm hoping that Rand knows Kavanaugh won't make it even with his vote and is taking the opportunity to look like a team player.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Maybe Rand knows how to actually get some things done, he has already gotten more done than Ron did, we needed Ron to come first and start the movement but we need people who get things done too.
    What he is getting done is putting someone on the bench who hates the Constitution.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I'm hoping that Rand knows Kavanaugh won't make it even with his vote and is taking the opportunity to look like a team player.
    In which case if the guy is going to get confirmed anyway, then all the more reason to take a principled stand.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    What he is getting done is putting someone on the bench who hates the Constitution.
    Maybe Kavanagh makes it on and maybe he doesn't, if Rand's vote doesn't make the difference and Trump keeps listening to him on other issues we may be better off because of Rand.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In which case if the guy is going to get confirmed anyway, then all the more reason to take a principled stand.
    I said I hoped there were enough votes to STOP Kavanugh without Rand and that Rand knew that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    I don't think things are quite that simple. I don't think Rand and Trump hate each other and I don't think they are trying to hurt each other. Trump does a lot of good things and I think Rand sees that. And I think that these two don't see each other as the enemy. But unfortunately Trump is not ideological or predictable so sometimes he aligns with liberty values, and sometimes he doesn't.
    I disagree entirely, Trump is a moderate at best, he changes from democrat to republican and no one bats an eye. If Rand Paul ran on the democrat party there is no way people would think he is a Democrat. They might be part of the same party but that's about it. You could say but didn't Rand endorse Trump?

    Not really, the Republican party picked him, and they basically made Rand promise to endorse whoever the Republican nominee ends up being during the 2016 election, Rand maybe has different ethics than you but he would of endorsed Jeb Bush if he was the nominee, that's just the kind of guy he is, he is a man of his word.

    Now you could say well don't they politically align on issue x, y z? No, not really, that would be a debatable statement at best. Trump doesn't have any sort of real political ideology, at least that he is consistent on, the only thing that he is consistent on is his neocon foreign policy in regards to Iran.

    This is like saying that Ron Wyden and Ron Paul don't disagree on the role of government, or Rand Paul and Cory Booker. Rand will work with whomever he can on single issues and he goes out of his way not to burn bridges with politicians or their supporters, that doesn't make him a sell out.

  26. #52
    We should change the forum name to "Matt Collins judge mental dictates." Honestly, Matt posts here maybe once or twice in a full moon and bitches about Rand. Hey, Matt has got the chops.He's a leader and a doer.

  27. #53
    Oh and let's not forget Rand endorsed Mitch.


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  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Oh and let's not forget Rand endorsed Mitch.
    Funding for the Iron Dome Hoax.
    Drones for Police.

    not his dad.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  29. #55
    President Donald Trump on Monday expressed his appreciation to Sen. Rand Paul for his promise to support the confirmation of Judge Brett Kavanaugh to the Supreme Court.

    “Thank you to @RandPaul for your YES on a future great Justice of the Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh,” Trump wrote in a Monday evening tweet. “Your vote means a lot to me, and to everyone who loves our Country!” (RELATED: RAND’S REVEAL: PAUL JUST ANNOUNCED HIS DECISION ON THE KAVANAUGH CONFIRMATION)
    Thank you to @RandPaul for your YES on a future great Justice of the Supreme Court, Brett Kavanaugh. Your vote means a lot to me, and to everyone who loves our Country!
    — Donald J. Trump (@realDonaldTrump) July 30, 2018

    More at: http://dailycaller.com/2018/07/30/tr...naugh-support/
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #56
    Dunno, after being shot at, been in a highly unlikely train collision with a garbage truck and seriously assaulted by his neighbor, perhaps Rand has considered that his life may be in danger if he bucks too hard. That's a tough position to be in if you're a Republican lawmaker that seems to be a constant target of a series of unfortunate events.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Dunno, after being shot at, been in a highly unlikely train collision with a garbage truck and seriously assaulted by his neighbor, perhaps Rand has considered that his life may be in danger if he bucks too hard. That's a tough position to be in if you're a Republican lawmaker that seems to be a constant target of a series of unfortunate events.
    The attacks have all come from left wing fanatics..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    How did Ron prove it false? What did Ron Paul ever accomplish beyond educating people about how votes should be cast?
    What has Rand accomplished?
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    What has Rand accomplished?
    https://www.dol.gov/sites/default/fi...final-rule.pdf

  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    The attacks have all come from left wing fanatics..
    Yeah that's the official story, at least.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

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