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Thread: Rand just sold out on Kavanaugh

  1. #121
    I can appreciate Styx's position, I really can.

    A few years ago it would have been mine as well.

    But a few things have changed, a few things have been brought to my attention, a few things have become too important to ignore in the name of ideological purity, over the last three years or so.

    The eye opening epiphany for me is that the Jacobin/Bolshevik left is a clear and present and deadly danger.

    This isn't just "political" opposition anymore...they hate us, and if given the power they seek, I have no reason to doubt that they would happily begin executing anybody that opposed them or were part of the old order.

    This is war, and it is war for survival, and I'll take allies wherever I can find them.



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  3. #122
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    First, saying Rand isn't a libertarian shouldn't be controversial. I'm only quoting the man himself.



    He is a Republican. And every now and then he'll pander to libertarians.
    LOL, dude, you have it completely ass backwards.

    Rand is not a Republican who panders to libertarians. That would be stupid. Why the $#@! would anybody who wants political power pander to libertarians? That is literally the dumbest thing I've heard in a minute..

    Rand is a libertarian who panders to Republicans.
    Last edited by dannno; 09-28-2018 at 01:02 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I can appreciate Styx's position, I really can.

    A few years ago it would have been mine as well.

    But a few things have changed, a few things have been brought to my attention, a few things have become too important to ignore in the name of ideological purity, over the last three years or so.

    The eye opening epiphany for me is that the Jacobin/Bolshevik left is a clear and present and deadly danger.

    This isn't just "political" opposition anymore...they hate us, and if given the power they seek, I have no reason to doubt that they would happily begin executing anybody that opposed them or were part of the old order.

    This is war, and it is war for survival, and I'll take allies wherever I can find them.
    Glad to see we're starting to come back together on this. The only difference in our opinions is that I don't think giving Republicans control of that power is the answer. Really, the only answer is taking that power away from them. And the only way that can happen, in my opinion, is if people understand that they are two sides of the government coin. Republicans own both houses and the Presidency - and yet, the government is growing faster than ever before.

    I won't claim to have the answer, I really think it lies in pulling back the curtain on their little division game. We've got to defund the RNC/DNC machine. They just staged a HUGE fundraiser. I think people need to be aware of how they're being manipulated into camps.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Glad to see we're starting to come back together on this. The only difference in our opinions is that I don't think giving Republicans control of that power is the answer. Really, the only answer is taking that power away from them. And the only way that can happen, in my opinion, is if people understand that they are two sides of the government coin. Republicans own both houses and the Presidency - and yet, the government is growing faster than ever before.

    I won't claim to have the answer, I really think it lies in pulling back the curtain on their little division game. We've got to defund the RNC/DNC machine. They just staged a HUGE fundraiser. I think people need to be aware of how they're being manipulated into camps.
    I don't believe we were ever that far apart.

    Styx is being abrasive for effect, and that can get under my skin at times, but I know what he's up to.

    You, @Ender, @CCTelander and I'm sure others that I can't recall at the moment, remain people I have a great deal of respect for and consider "friends".

    I don't have any easy answers either, but I remain committed to fighting the battle as best I can, to achieve the same goals: restricting and limiting government and promoting the maximum amount of individual liberty as possible.

    The threats I see to those goals I have made clear, and consider them to be of the primary importance, at this point in history.

  6. #125

  7. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by afwjam View Post
    Now kiss
    I save them for @Danke

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I save them for @Danke



    Don't want to make donnay jealous.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people...



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  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I don't believe we were ever that far apart.

    Styx is being abrasive for effect, and that can get under my skin at times, but I know what he's up to.

    You, @Ender, @CCTelander and I'm sure others that I can't recall at the moment, remain people I have a great deal of respect for and consider "friends".

    I don't have any easy answers either, but I remain committed to fighting the battle as best I can, to achieve the same goals: restricting and limiting government and promoting the maximum amount of individual liberty as possible.

    The threats I see to those goals I have made clear, and consider them to be of the primary importance, at this point in history.

    I'm on my phone so posting anything more than a few lines is a major PITA, and as usual I've got my hands full with real life $#@! here so have very little time, but I did want to let you know, brother AF, that the respect and affection are mutual. I may not always agree with you, but I always do respect you and consider you a friend and brother in "arms."
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul



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  11. #129
    so when & where is the 10 year party?

    REALLY sounds like fun

    remember remember

    or


    tea party

    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  12. #130

  13. #131
    It should be on a boat, pick me up will you guys?

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I can appreciate Styx's position, I really can.

    A few years ago it would have been mine as well.

    But a few things have changed, a few things have been brought to my attention, a few things have become too important to ignore in the name of ideological purity, over the last three years or so.

    The eye opening epiphany for me is that the Jacobin/Bolshevik left is a clear and present and deadly danger.

    This isn't just "political" opposition anymore...they hate us, and if given the power they seek, I have no reason to doubt that they would happily begin executing anybody that opposed them or were part of the old order.

    This is war, and it is war for survival, and I'll take allies wherever I can find them.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.


    My question for those who want Kavanaugh (great chance at confirmation) out for his position on 4A and his time at the WH under W. Are you willing to give that seat to a 50/50 chance to someone progressively worse if the Dems take the Senate? Thats a 30-40 year SCOTUS seat.


    I think many libertarians are still used to being under Obama where none of what we cared about ever mattered and we could be as pure as we wanted, criticizing a powerless GOP that couldn't get any significant libertarian or conservative legislation passed 08-16. Back then you guys never had to worry about your purity having consequences, now you do.

    I live in a heavily contested toss up congressional district. I will be happily voting for the GOP choice even though its not my preferred but its 999999% better than the out-of-the-closet socialist opponent.
    Last edited by eleganz; 10-01-2018 at 11:50 PM.
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  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    My question for those who want Kavanaugh (great chance at confirmation) out for his position on 4A and his time at the WH under W. Are you willing to give that seat to a 50/50 chance to someone progressively worse if the Dems take the Senate? Thats a 30-40 year SCOTUS seat
    Is that someone necessarily worse than Kavanaugh? The 4th Amendment may be the most important one to protect, with the emerging technology that will shape the future. And don't forget that 100,000 pages of his records from the Bush years are HIDDEN.
    Authoritarianism and neoconservatism cannot be made great again.
    Trump was an enemy of Ron Paul, before he was an enemy of Rand Paul, before he was an enemy of the Freedom Caucus.
    One thing that he has remained consistent in is his hate of liberty and those who promote it.

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Glad to see we're starting to come back together on this. The only difference in our opinions is that I don't think giving Republicans control of that power is the answer. Really, the only answer is taking that power away from them.
    Yep. I can count on one hand the number of Republican's and Democrats that i would feel comfortable with the decision making practices, and that's not enough to keep worrying about who controls the Statism every 4 years.
    Whenever you find yourself on the side of the majority, it is time to pause and reflect - Mark Twain

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    My question for those who want Kavanaugh (great chance at confirmation) out for his position on 4A and his time at the WH under W. Are you willing to give that seat to a 50/50 chance to someone progressively worse if the Dems take the Senate? Thats a 30-40 year SCOTUS seat.
    Does it really matter? I don't like SC Justices that are deferential to government. This whole Left/Right "balance" on the Court is kinda silly. It seems their preference for government is 8-0. It's just a matter of which issues they're debating and the political direction at the time. I don't expect so-called "conservative" justices to protect the 4th amendment anymore than I expect "liberal" justices to protect the 2nd.


    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    I think many libertarians are still used to being under Obama where none of what we cared about ever mattered and we could be as pure as we wanted, criticizing a powerless GOP that couldn't get any significant libertarian or conservative legislation passed 08-16. Back then you guys never had to worry about your purity having consequences, now you do.
    Have you seen the budget?! So glad we gave the GOP power.

    This whole left/right shtick is getting pretty old. I'm not sure how many times they'll need to kick you with the other boot before you'll get the message.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Anti Federalist again.


    My question for those who want Kavanaugh (great chance at confirmation) out for his position on 4A ...
    You can't fail at the 4th amendment and get a pass, or any of the bill of rights. I go farther than saying he shouldn't be on the supreme court he should be in jail. He is a coward for not standing up for the bill of rights and he does not deserve any more of my tax dollars.



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti-Neocon View Post
    Is that someone necessarily worse than Kavanaugh? The 4th Amendment may be the most important one to protect, with the emerging technology that will shape the future. And don't forget that 100,000 pages of his records from the Bush years are HIDDEN.
    If the ultra-orthodox Kavanaugh cannot be confirmed, no one can. The Democrats will refuse to confirm anyone, or allow a confirmation to proceed normally, until they put a Communist of their own in office; at which point there will be a queue of empty seats to fill with the most radical Communists an Obama 2.0 can muster.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    If the ultra-orthodox Kavanaugh cannot be confirmed, no one can. The Democrats will refuse to confirm anyone, or allow a confirmation to proceed normally, until they put a Communist of their own in office; at which point there will be a queue of empty seats to fill with the most radical Communists an Obama 2.0 can muster.
    they are already talking about expanding the court the moment they seize power again, adding 2 or more new seats. We need to abolish the SC or limit it to only dealing with state vs state issues.

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    If the ultra-orthodox Kavanaugh cannot be confirmed, no one can.
    Well if we are down that road than a bloodless revolution is impossible anyways. I am not letting you use America as a hostage to turn America into China.

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Does it really matter? It seems their preference for government is 8-0. ing pretty old.

    This whole left/right shtick is getting pretty old. I'm not sure how many times they'll need to kick you with the other boot before you'll get the message.

    So you think there is just very little meaningful difference between this guy http://articles.latimes.com/2011/jul...homas-20110703

    Each summer, Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas invites his four new law clerks to his home to watch a movie.
    Not just any movie, but the 1949 film version of the classic of libertarian conservatism, Ayn Rand's "The Fountainhead."
    And this lady.https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/07/u...orld.html?_r=1

    In a television interview during a visit to Egypt last week, Justice
    Ruth Bader Ginsburg of the Supreme Court seemed to agree. “I would not look to the United States Constitution if I were drafting a constitution in the year 2012,” she said. She recommended, instead, the South African Constitution, the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms or the European Convention on Human Rights.

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    So you think there is just very little meaningful difference between this guy
    Not what I'm saying. I am saying that he will support government on "right" leaning issues.

    For example,

    He supported indefinite detention of US Citizens without due process - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamdi_v._Rumsfeld

    And,

    Strip searching of Middle Schoolers - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saffor...ict_v._Redding
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Not what I'm saying. I am saying that he will support government on "right" leaning issues.

    Not always. But you want to know else fits into that category? Ronald Earnest Paul. Ron is extremely deferential to legislatures. Does that mean you think Ron would be just more of the same on the court?

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...e-Constitution

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Not always. But you want to know else fits into that category? Ronald Earnest Paul. Ron is extremely deferential to legislatures. Does that mean you think Ron would be just more of the same on the court?

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...e-Constitution
    Wait, so you completely dismissed the cases I posted to try to shift the argument to another one? Ridiculous as the state laws may be, Ron and Thomas were both right on Lawrence v. Texas. But again, totally not what I was talking about.

    You're really having a problem with the strawmen today.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Wait, so you completely dismissed the cases I posted to try to shift the argument to another one? Ridiculous as the state laws may be, Ron and Thomas were both right on Lawrence v. Texas. But again, totally not what I was talking about.

    You're really having a problem with the strawmen today.
    Well.. The example I gave was the textbook example of differing to legislatures. Kind of hard to say I am strawmanning an argument when I am giving the classic case libertarians use when they say talk about deferring to legislatures.

    And yes, it was decided correctly. Ron's opinion is bad on this issue.

    Edit: Should say not deferring.
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 10-02-2018 at 11:22 AM.



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post

    My question for those who want Kavanaugh (great chance at confirmation) out for his position on 4A and his time at the WH under W. Are you willing to give that seat to a 50/50 chance to someone progressively worse if the Dems take the Senate? Thats a 30-40 year SCOTUS seat.
    Bad strategy.


    Never compromise. Demand 100%. Settle for nothing less.


    The government have now is the result of settling for the lesser of evils for decades.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  30. #146
    The truth is that both parties can always get "worse" every election cycle, and they always do, so continuing to err on the side of "less worse" every election means it continues downhill. Trump was "less worse" than Hillary yet nothing of substance has changed for the better under "less worse" Trump. A few token crumbs thrown here and there to keep the rabble unroused, with a huge helping of propaganda but nothing has changed on the issues that affect us all. This is because both parties are loaded with fake politicians that act like they're opposed but aren't. They're NWO proponents and take turns implementing necessary steps to achieve it.

    Why is Trump's FCC running roughshod over state and local governments to force 5G into everyone's home? Because it's a NWO (NWO is really just global Roman Empire, hence Jesuit SCOTUS nominee) goal to control every aspect of everyone's lives, with a heavy side of depopulation agenda. That's not partisan but while Trump is in, privacy advocates/4A supporters turn off their brains. Couldn't Trump put out an EO directing the FCC to act in accordance with state and local governments? Yes, he could. But he doesn't. Because partisan bickering is a giant distraction from the real agenda that rolls right along without a hitch.



    Last edited by devil21; 10-02-2018 at 12:12 PM.
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  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Why do SCOTUS nominees need to be on Trump's list, can't we have someone that will honor the constitution instead?

    Reject them all, until he nominates someone law abiding.
    This.
    It's the best hiring practice.

    strong swim team > bunch of floaters

    Politics, don't get any on ya.
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  32. #148
    I stand with Rand and the US Constitution. A libertarian is a Republican who has been falsely accused.
    Knowledge is Liberty!


  33. #149
    This was more than likely the reason Rand backed him. Rand had had conversations with him and I'm sure it was brought up....

    Brett Kavanaugh Calls Carpenter v. United States a ‘Game Changer’ on 4th Amendment Law


    During a brief but telling exchange with Sen. Patrick Leahy (D-Vt.) at his confirmation hearings last week, Kavanaugh gave the impression that his thinking on the matter has in fact changed.

    "In your concurrence in Klayman v. Obama," Leahy said to Kavanaugh, you "went out of your way to say that not only is the dragnet collection of America's telephone records by the National Security Agency OK because it is not a search…even if it is a search, it is justified in order to prevent terrorism." Why?

    Kavanaugh began his response by invoking precedent. "I was trying to articulate what I thought based on the precedent at the time—at the time when your information went to a third party and the government obtained the information from the third party the existing Supreme Court precedent was that your privacy interest was essentially zero," he said.

    But then Kavanaugh pivoted to the present. "The opinion for the Supreme Court by Chief Justice Roberts this past spring in the Carpenter case is a game changer," he told Leahy. "I've talked repeatedly in this hearing about how technology will be one of the huge issues with the Fourth Amendment going forward, and you see Chief Justice Roberts' majority opinion in Carpenter, that alters, and really is a game changer, from the precedent on which I was writing at that time."

    In his majority opinion in Carpenter v. United States, Chief Justice Roberts ruled that warrantless government tracking of a cellphone user via his cellphone location records violated the Fourth Amendment. "A person does not surrender all Fourth Amendment protection by venturing into the public sphere," Roberts wrote. "We decline to grant the state unrestricted access to a wireless carrier's database of physical location information."

    Sen. Leahy then asked the SCOTUS nominee a follow-up question: "Do you think if Carpenter had been decided you would have written the concurrence you did in Klayman?"

    "I don't see how I could have,"
    Kavanaugh replied.

    Leahy appeared pleased with that answer. "Thank you," he said. "I agree with that."
    https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/13/b...enter-v-united

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    This was more than likely the reason Rand backed him. Rand had had conversations with him and I'm sure it was brought up....


    https://reason.com/blog/2018/09/13/b...enter-v-united
    Which means Rand is naive.

    Nothing that comes out of a nominee's mouth matters at all because there is zero way to hold them to it.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

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