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Thread: Analysts: Trump tariff threats unlikely to yield trade deals

  1. #1

    Analysts: Trump tariff threats unlikely to yield trade deals

    https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politic...ld-trade-deals

    The more you push and threaten, the more people are going to resist you- not comply.

    WASHINGTON — With President Donald Trump intensifying his rift with U.S. trading partners, economists are growing more doubtful that any deal that might benefit American workers and companies is in sight.

    Instead, many analysts say they expect the Trump administration to impose more tariffs on China and potentially other key U.S. trading partners. With those nations almost certain to retaliate, the result could be higher prices for Americans, diminished export sales and a weaker U.S. economy by next year.

    In an interview with CNBC that aired Friday morning, Trump renewed his threat to ultimately slap tariffs on a total of $500 billion of imports from China — roughly equal to all the goods Beijing ships annually to the United States. The president has already imposed tariffs on $34 billion in Chinese goods, and Beijing has retaliated with tariffs on an equal amount of American exports. The White House has also itemized $200 billion of additional Chinese imports that it said may be subject to tariffs.

    In addition, Trump has told the Commerce Department to investigate whether imported autos and auto parts threaten America’s national security — the same justification the president invoked to impose tariffs on steel and aluminum. If the answer is yes, the administration says it could slap 20 percent to 25 percent tariffs on $335 billion of auto imports. Higher car prices for American consumers would inevitably follow.

    Analysts say they’re becoming more convinced that Trump’s multi-front trade fights aren’t merely a short-term negotiating ploy. Rather, he may be prepared to wait as long as he feels it necessary to force other countries to adopt trade rules more favorable to the United States.

    “People are underestimating what we’re headed for,” said Rod Hunter, a lawyer who served as a White House economic adviser under President George W. Bush. “He’s been saying since the ’80s that trade deals are bad and we should have more tariffs, and that’s what we’re getting.”

    Moody’s Analytics estimates that if the tariffs were imposed on autos and most Chinese imports and other countries retaliate as expected, annual U.S. growth would slow by 0.5 percentage point by mid-2019. It expects that 700,000 jobs would be lost.

    Global markets have remained generally calm despite the eruption of a full-blown U.S.-China trade war and the other conflicts Trump has ignited. On Friday, the Dow Jones industrial closed down slightly.

    “I’ve been surprised that up until now, markets seem overly sanguine about the risks” of a trade war between the world’s two biggest economies, said David Dollar, senior fellow at the Brookings Institution and a former official at the World Bank and U.S. Treasury Department.

    Investors as a whole appear to accept the argument of Trump economic advisers, notably Larry Kudlow and Kevin Hassett, that the president’s threats will likely force China, the European Union, Canada, and Mexico to eventually negotiate better trade deals.

    But many analysts are skeptical that Trump’s tactics will produce such an outcome. Rufus Yerxa, president of the National Foreign Trade Council and formerly deputy director general of the World Trade Organization, said Trump appears to think that America’s trading partners will yield to pressure without securing any concessions in return.

    “That isn’t how trade negotiations work,”
    Yerxa said.

    China will likely retaliate if additional tariffs are imposed, economists note, rather than simply knuckle under. President Xi Jingping “cannot lose face with his own people by giving in to the United States,” Dollar said.

    Philip Levy, a trade expert at the Chicago Council on Global Affairs and a former White House trade adviser, suggested that Chinese officials have been frustrated and confused by their previous failed efforts to reach an agreement.

    After Beijing offered this spring to buy more natural gas and farm goods from the U.S. to narrow the trade deficit, Treasury Secretary Steven Mnuchin said the trade war was “on hold.” China also said it would reduce its auto tariffs from 25 percent to 15 percent.

    Yet Trump soon intensified his tariff threats anyway.


    “The Chinese are not clear what the United States wants,” said Scott Kennedy, who studies the Chinese economy at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “They’ve received conflicting messages depending on who they speak with.”

    The administration says it wants China to end the theft of intellectual property from U.S. companies and curb policies that require American and other foreign businesses to hand over technology in exchange for access to the Chinese market. Yet any such agreement would require extensive talks over how it would be implemented and verified.

    There’s no negotiating going on that I can see,” Dollar said.

    In the CNBC interview that aired Friday, Trump reiterated his complaints about America’s gaping trade gap with China, even though reforming China’s technology policies wouldn’t likely narrow the trade deficit.

    “We are being taken advantage of, and I don’t like it,” Trump said.

    Economists note that Trump’s hard-nosed stance on trade runs deep. He has been denouncing other countries’ trade practices and urging retaliation for decades, dating to the 1980s, when Japan was regarded as America’s main global economic threat.

    “You have to take seriously that (imposing tariffs) is what he really wants to do,” said Adam Posen, president of the Peterson Institute for International Economics.

    In his CNBC interview Friday, Trump shrugged off the prospect that a trade war with China could cause the stock market to tumble.

    “If it does, it does,”
    he said.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-22-2018 at 03:06 PM.



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  3. #2
    pcgame
    Member

    I would support tariffs of some sort if and only if we get rid of the income tax. Now b/c of Trump we get the tariffs ONTOP of the income tax.

  4. #3
    Analcysts said ..."blah, blah, blah."

  5. #4
    Trump is more likely to get a fair deal than if we just play patsy like we have ever since WWII.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Lack of threats would probably make it even less likely for a favorable trade deal for us, just a SWAG.
    ...

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trump is more likely to get a fair deal than if we just play patsy like we have ever since WWII.
    Playing patsy is what society expects from you. Didn't you go to school?

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by pcgame View Post
    I would support tariffs of some sort if and only if we get rid of the income tax. Now b/c of Trump we get the tariffs ONTOP of the income tax.
    At current spending levels you would need a 200% tariff on everything imported- from food to electronics to cars to energy to clothing. That means prices almost triple from where they are now. And higher prices will lower demand so the tariffs would need to be even higher. Other countries would not stand by but would respond in kind. International trade would plummet to perhaps near zero. That would mean shortages of goods not just for consumers but producers as well. And all of our export jobs would be gone- these account for about a third of the economy.

  9. #8
    https://www.express.co.uk/news/world...est-phil-hogan

    TRADE WAR: EU chief says it’s time to BULLY TRUMP BACK - ‘we will put him in his place'

    EU commissioner Phil Hogan said it is time for Brussels to resort to the same “bullying” tactics employed by the US leader to “put this man back in his place”.

    Only a “hard line” approach against the United States will bring an end to the bitter dispute which has escalated in recent weeks, the European Commissioner for Agriculture and Rural Development said.

    The traditionally close allies have been engaged in a tit-for-tat trade war after Mr Trump’s administration imposed tariffs on imports of steel and aluminium last month.

    In response, the EU slapped a series of products made in the US with similar levies.

    But speaking in County Donegal, Ireland, this morning, Mr Hogan insisted the only way to end the dispute was by matching Mr Trump’s tactics.

    He said the EU is split over whether to adopt “a hardline or softly-softly approach”, The Irish Times reports.

    He said: “I’m on the side of the hardline approach. You can only deal with someone who is trying to bully you in an irresponsible way by bullying them back.

    “The European Union, with its 500 million people standing together, will ultimately show president Trump the error of his ways.”

    He added only a strong, consistent line will “put this man back in his place”.

    Mr Hogan’s warning comes as European Commission President Jean-Claude Juncker prepares to meet with the US leader this week.

    The pair are due to discuss the lifting of the tariffs, which Mr Trump has threatened to extend to cars and car parts produced in the EU.

    Mr Trump's top economic adviser, Larry Kudlow, has said he expects Mr Juncker to come with a "significant" trade offer.

    But the EU chief will not arrive with a specific offer on trade, the Commission said on Monday.

    Mr Trump has repeatedly complained about the EU, pointing to the higher duties it applies for car imports and describing the bloc as a "foe" in trade.

    And after the US imposed tariffs on EU steel and aluminium amid threats to extend measures to European cars, European Trade Commissioner Cecilia Malmstrom, who will accompany Mr Juncker, said the bloc is preparing a list of US products to hit if the US slaps tariffs on EU cars.
    More at link.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    At current spending levels you would need a 200% tariff on everything imported- from food to electronics to cars to energy to clothing. That means prices almost triple from where they are now. And higher prices will lower demand so the tariffs would need to be even higher. Other countries would not stand by but would respond in kind. International trade would plummet to perhaps near zero. That would mean shortages of goods not just for consumers but producers as well. And all of our export jobs would be gone- these account for about a third of the economy.
    And this is what the analcysts with government schooling degrees tell you?

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And this is what the analcysts with government schooling degrees tell you?
    I took the total US Imports and divided that into our current budget spending. About $2 trillion worth of imports vs $4 trillion in spending. 200% tariff.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I took the total US Imports and divided that into our current budget spending. About $2 trillion worth of imports vs $4 trillion in spending. 200% tariff.
    Yeah, I figured that. It was the other 90% of your doomsday prediction I was referring to. But, of course you knew that.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    LOL at the EU.


    The United States’ removal of tariffs on steel and aluminum imports is not a necessary precondition for trade talks between the United States and the European Union to begin, the European Council representative to the G20 Hubert Fuchs said on Sunday.

    “We are representing 28 member states of the European Union, not only Germany and France. We shouldn’t have any preconditions for the talks,” Fuchs, also Austria’s state secretary for finance, said in an interview. “It’s not a precondition because preconditions are never good, but it would be a great wish.”

    More at: https://www.reuters.com/article/us-g...siness+News%29
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    pcgame
    Member

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    At current spending levels you would need a 200% tariff on everything imported- from food to electronics to cars to energy to clothing. That means prices almost triple from where they are now. And higher prices will lower demand so the tariffs would need to be even higher. Other countries would not stand by but would respond in kind. International trade would plummet to perhaps near zero. That would mean shortages of goods not just for consumers but producers as well. And all of our export jobs would be gone- these account for about a third of the economy.
    Hey Zippyjuan,

    I would give you +rep but the forum software won't let me give you any more, it says "You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to Zippyjuan again."



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