Trump administration wants immigrants to take a test

[Swordsmyth]

Well, a Civil Liberty would say that when I am in your house and it is your property, I have a Liberty to use the bathroom, but do NOT have a Right to smoke in your house. I would have a Right to smoke in my own house, but not yours, as it would be your permission (Civil Liberty) to grant in that specific situation. What neither one of us would have a Right to do is to decree that the other may not smoke, ever.

Recognizing the difference between a Right and a Civil Liberty (Permission) is a very important concept to understand. Trouble with this understanding is that for most people, the Definition between Rights and Permissions has been heavily confused. Whether that Confusion is intentional or not, the consequences are the same. Rights end where the Equal Rights of others begin. So yes, a person you once invited into your house has Rights, but by coming into your house, where you are Sovereign, King, and there is NO higher authority, they choose to temporarily give up their own Rights and abide by your rules. Outside your house, you would have zero authority over what they do. You could say that based on their behavior outside your house that you will no longer allow them to come inside your house, but, being Sovereign over your own property, you do NOT need ANY reason to say "no, you may not come in". A "Civil Liberty" would be nothing more than a Permission you chose to grant, and have valid authority to revoke that Permission at any time. Can I have one of your beers? That is your Permission to grant, but most importantly, I should not think for a second that I have any authority to take your beer without your permission.

Ron explained a form of this as Entitlement.

Immigration I do not believe is a Right, but a Permission to be granted by the We the People, and we can pick and choose, and even cherry pick who we will allow to come into the country for what ever reason, if any, that we want. Also, this isnt directed specifically at you, just an in general reply.

[Zippyjuan]

Hmm...

If people are not given Rights from Govt, but rather their Creator, and Govts are created by people, would that make the People the Creator of Govts, and, in turn, again since Rights are granted by their Creator and People created Govt, can the People grant very specific Rights (really Privileges) to the Govts they create?

I am sort of testing the concept of Abstraction at both Macro and Micro scale, so I need to hear both sides to the argument... The idea is that things which work at the small scale also work on large and very large scale, abstracting back and forth between very small and very large, so I am curious.

From the Book Of Romans: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...13&version=ERV

All of you must obey the government rulers. Everyone who rules was given the power to rule by God. And all those who rule now were given that power by God. 2 So anyone who is against the government is really against something God has commanded. Those who are against the government bring punishment on themselves. 3 People who do right don’t have to fear the rulers. But those who do wrong must fear them. Do you want to be free from fearing them? Then do only what is right, and they will praise you.

4 Rulers are God’s servants to help you. But if you do wrong, you have reason to be afraid. They have the power to punish, and they will use it. They are God’s servants to punish those who do wrong. 5 So you must obey the government, not just because you might be punished, but because you know it is the right thing to do.

6 And this is why you pay taxes too. Those rulers are working for God, and they give all their time to the work of ruling. 7 Give everyone what you owe them. If you owe them any kind of tax, then pay it. Show respect to those you should respect. And show honor to those you should honor.

Loving Others Is the Only Law
8 You should owe nothing to anyone, except that you will always owe love to each other. The person who loves others has done all that the law commands. 9 The law says, “You must not commit adultery, you must not murder anyone, you must not steal, you must not want what belongs to someone else.”[a] All these commands and all other commands are really only one rule: “Love your neighbor[b] the same as you love yourself.”[c] 10 Love doesn’t hurt others. So loving is the same as obeying all the law.

11 I say this because you know that we live in an important time. Yes, it is now time for you to wake up from your sleep. Our salvation is nearer now than when we first believed. 12 The night is almost finished. The day is almost here. So we should stop doing whatever belongs to darkness. We should prepare ourselves to fight evil with the weapons that belong to the light. 13 We should live in a right way, like people who belong to the day. We should not have wild parties or be drunk. We should not be involved in sexual sin or any kind of immoral behavior. We should not cause arguments and trouble or be jealous. 14 But be like the Lord Jesus Christ, so that when people see what you do, they will see Christ. Don’t think about how to satisfy the desires of your sinful self.

[Zippyjuan]

[QUOTE=dannno;6655219...charts.....[/QUOTE]

In his charts, Immigrant means not born in the USA. That can include citizens as well as legal and illegal immigrants. "Any welfare" for a household counts everybody in a house as on welfare if only one person receives a benefit. If Junior gets a subsidized school lunch, the entire family is counted as each being on welfare. Grannie on Social Security and living with a family of four? All five are counted as receiving welfare. These highly distort the figures presented.

[Swordsmyth]

From the Book Of Romans: https://www.biblegateway.com/passage...13&version=ERV

Paul was a heretic and Romans 13 is tainted with heresy.

[Swordsmyth]

In his charts, Immigrant means not born in the USA. That can include citizens as well as legal and illegal immigrants. "Any welfare" for a household counts anybody in a house as on welfare if only one person receives a benefit. If Junior gets a subsidized school lunch, the entire family is counted as each being on welfare. Grannie on Social Security and living with a family of four? All five are counted as receiving welfare. These highly slightly distort the figures presented.

Fixed it.

Very few citizens are born overseas (only a few of those who are will be on welfare) and household finances are managed together so any welfare benefits the entire household.

[Zippyjuan]

Fixed it.

Very few citizens are born overseas (only a few of those who are will be on welfare) and household finances are managed together so any welfare benefits the entire household.

About 13% of US citizens today were born outside the US.

[Swordsmyth]

About 13% of US citizens today were born outside the US.

How many of them were born citizens?

Immigrants that gain citizenship eventually and receive welfare are a legitimate part of the charts in question.

[DamianTV]

Paul was a heretic and Romans 13 is tainted with heresy.

Hey! Thats my new Gamer Handle! FreedomHeretic!