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Thread: ‘Good guys with guns’: Oklahomans kill an active shooter, and it's not as simple as it sounds.

  1. #1

    ‘Good guys with guns’: Oklahomans kill an active shooter, and it's not as simple as it sounds.

    Mark Berman
    JULY 13, 2018
    OKLAHOMA CITY
    ‘Good guys with guns’: Oklahomans kill an active shooter, and it's not as simple as it sounds.

    Juan Carlos Nazario was sitting on a lakeside bench waiting to play soccer when he heard the staccato popping of gunshots outside Louie’s On the Lake, a popular waterfront grill and pub. He ran to his car to get his gun and moved toward the sounds.

    Bryan Whittle was driving with his wife, heading off for a Memorial Day weekend getaway, when he saw a commotion outside Louie’s. He thought someone might be drowning, so instead of turning his truck onto the highway, he barreled into the parking lot to offer help. As he jumped out, what he learned stunned him: There was an active shooter just yards away, and wounded victims were holed up in the restaurant’s bathroom.

    Whittle, too, grabbed his gun.

    In a matter of seconds, the two armed citizens became self-appointed protectors, moving to take up positions around the shooter, drawing their weapons and shouting for him to drop his. Time stretched and warped. There was an exchange of gunfire. The gunman was hit several times and fell. As Nazario and Whittle converged over the man to restrain him, police arrived. Unsure who was who, officers handcuffed all of the men and put them on the ground as the shooter bled out into the grass and died.

    “I was just doing what I was supposed to do,” recalled Nazario, a former police officer who said he now works as a security guard, always has his gun in the car and usually carries it with him.

    “I just reacted,” said Whittle, who has served for nearly 20 years in the Oklahoma Air National Guard and works for the Federal Aviation Administration. “There’s a guy with a gun. I’ve got a gun. Stop the threat.”


    Though they were loaded into police cars and taken downtown for questioning, they were soon hailed as heroes. They were also called champions of Second Amendment rights, gun-carrying examples of why Oklahoma’s Republican governor should not have vetoed a bill two weeks earlier that would have eliminated the need for a permit and training to carry a gun in public.

    In a nation grappling with frequent mass shootings, Second Amendment activists have urged that more people carry guns so that they are prepared, like Nazario and Whittle, to respond to an armed threat. The morning after the May 24 Oklahoma City shooting, the National Rifle Association tweeted that it was “just another example of how the best way to stop a bad guy with a gun is a good guy with a gun.”

    Local police also praised Nazario and Whittle, saying their swift response ended what a police spokesman called “a very dangerous situation.”

    But police also noted that armed citizens can complicate volatile situations. The first of 57 uniformed police officers arrived just a minute after the initial 911 calls and found a complex scene with multiple armed people and no clear sense of what had happened or who was responsible.

    “We don’t want people to be vigilantes,” Bo Mathews, a spokesman for the Oklahoma City Police Department, said in a recent interview. “That’s why we have police officers.”


    Both men did what they believed was right, but that meant they had killed a man they did not know. Whittle wondered whether he was going to jail. Nazario went over ways that the confrontation could have ended differently — perhaps with his own death. They both marveled that amid the chaos, the result was as intended: The attacker was stopped before he could hurt anyone else.

    ....
    hxxps://www.washingtonpost.com/news/national/wp/2018/07/13/feature/in-all-reality-there-were-three-shooters-oklahomans-kill-an-active-shooter-and-its-not-as-simple-as-it-sounds/?utm_term=.c5991d397256
    Last edited by kcchiefs6465; 07-14-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

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  3. #2
    They best not shoot a person of color.

  4. #3
    The first of 57 uniformed police officers arrived just a minute after the initial 911 calls....
    That doesn't seem to jive with the story's timeline.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  5. #4
    But police also noted that armed citizens can complicate volatile situations.
    And kops don't?

    What do you call it when the kops are called to a nonviolent situation and end up killing people?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    (shooting was in May)

    https://www.seattletimes.com/nation-...urant-shooter/

    Prosecutor clears 2 who killed Oklahoma restaurant shooter

    OKLAHOMA CITY (AP) — A prosecutor announced Monday he has cleared two people who fatally shot a man who wounded three others after opening fire at an Oklahoma City restaurant during the dinnertime rush.

    Oklahoma County District Attorney David Prater said that Juan Carlos Nazario and Bryan Whittle were justified when they “neutralized” the shooter and would not face charges.

    Both men shot 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman on May 24 after authorities say he walked into Louie’s On The Lake and started shooting. Tilghman shot a 39-year-old woman, her 12-year-old daughter and a 14-year-old family friend as they arrived for a birthday party. All three survived.

    A fourth person fell and broke his arm in the ensuing chaos.

    “It should be noted that both of the civilians who neutralized Tilghman had received significant firearms training and employed tactics that lessened the potential that their use of deadly force would harm innocent bystanders,” Prater said in a statement.

    Neither Nazario or Whittle could immediately be reached Monday for comment.

    Nazario is a trained security guard, and Whittle is a master sergeant in the Oklahoma Air National Guard.

    Whittle said in an interview with The Oklahoman that he and his wife were driving by the restaurant and pulled in when they saw a commotion. He said he grabbed his .40-caliber semi-automatic pistol and moved toward where everyone was pointing. He said that he wasn’t aware another armed person had come to help until he heard Nazario say, “Clear him. I got you. Clear him.”

    Police had recommended the two not be charged.

    Authorities said Tilghman used a 9 millimeter handgun. A warrant showed police recovered 9 millimeter ammunition, notebook writings, a computer, a laptop and cellphones from his apartment.

    Tilghman was certified as an armed security guard.

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/alexand...ng-2018-05-25/

    Police said the suspect, 28-year-old Alexander Tilghman, randomly picked Louie's Restaurant, which was packed with dinner-time patrons.

    "It could have been really bad. It is a confined area and nobody can really escape," said Oklahoma City Police Department Capt. Bo Mathews.

    Twelve-year-old Niah Will, her mother Natalie and another young girl were shot. All three are recovering and listed in good condition.

    Police said the suspect stood in the restaurant doorway and started shooting. He was wearing ear muffs and safety glasses, police said, the kind you would use at a shooting range.

    "There was a pop, pop, pop," said Ron Benton, one of about 100 patrons who hit the floor and then the door. He ran and hid between the cars. "We picked him up he was coming through [a] tree line."

    Benton said that he watched as two armed civilians, Bryan Whittle and Juan Carlos Nazario, confronted the gunman. Police say they each grabbed a handgun from the trunk of their vehicles.

    "They told him, 'Put it down, put it down, put it down, drop the weapon, drop the weapon,'" said Benton.

    Nazario and Whittle, who did not know each other, both shot the suspect, who died at the scene.

    Authorities said Tilghman posted to a video to YouTube last month in which he rambled that his refrigerator was attacking him and he's hearing noises.

    "I apologize. I am not doing well. I am really, really doing bad right now," Tilghman said.
    https://heavy.com/news/2018/05/bryan...arlos-nazario/
    Three people were shot. Natalie Will and her daughter, Syniah Giles, 12, were shot as they walked in front of the restaurant. Natalie was grazed by a bullet and didn’t need surgery, but Syniah was shot near the tailbone and required surgery that lasted a couple hours. Alex Speegle was also shot and will have surgery sometime today. Her collarbone was shattered and she was also shot in the right arm. She may suffer nerve damage to her right hand.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-14-2018 at 12:45 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

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    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  7. #6
    Do you think that if we all blocked Zippy he would go away?
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  8. #7
    FBI was warned about Okla. restaurant shooting suspect's disturbing YouTube rants

    https://www.cbsnews.com/news/fbi-war...youtube-rants/
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Do you think that if we all blocked Zippy he would go away?
    No.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Do you think that if we all blocked Zippy he would go away?
    No, he would prey upon noobs without any opposition and his allies would +rep him until he had a full green bar again.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    What do you call it when the kops are called to a nonviolent situation and end up killing people?
    It's called "doing their jobs" ...

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Occam's Banana View Post
    It's called "doing their jobs" ...
    Don't you mean "Being Heroes"?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    They best not shoot a person of color.




    Or are you speaking of one of the anointed races?



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