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  1. #1

    Default NATO members to increase defense spending

    US President Donald Trump says Nato countries have agreed to increase their military spending.
    Speaking after a two-day summit in Brussels, he said allies had committed to spending more than 2% of their annual output (GDP) on defence budgets.
    The president has been highly critical of the alliance, complaining the US pays more than others.
    After the meeting, he said he believed in Nato and it was "presently unnecessary" to consider quitting it.
    "We made a tremendous amount of progress today," he said. "It has been really amazing to see the level of spirit in that room."
    Mr Trump has previously urged Nato allies to commit at least 4% of their annual output (GDP).
    He said Nato chief Jens Stoltenberg had given "total credit" to him for the increased spending, which he said he instigated during his first Nato meeting last year.
    more... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-44808077
    Last edited by shakey1; 07-12-2018 at 05:32 AM.

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  3. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    Just re-stating what was agreed to in 2014 when they pledged to increase military spending to 2% of GDP by 2024. Trump claimed it was all due to him but that is disputed. He wants that raised to 4% which would be more than the US spends (3.6%- but on the other hand he may be trying to set a higher bar to urge them to hit the lower bar). The declaration did not say anything specific like how much they may increase spending.

    https://abcnews.go.com/International...owers-56533074

    https://www.cnbc.com/2018/07/12/trum...-disputed.html

    Trump’s claim that NATO will boost defense spending disputed

    President Donald Trump closed out his chaotic two-day visit to NATO Thursday by declaring victory, claiming that member nations caved to his demands to significantly increase defense spending and reaffirming his commitment to the alliance.

    But there were no immediate specifics on what he had achieved, and French President Emmanuel Macron quickly disputed Trump’s claim that NATO allies have agreed to boost defense spending beyond 2 percent of gross domestic product.

    “The United States’ commitment to NATO remains very strong,” Trump told reporters at a surprise news conference following an emergency session of NATO members held to address his threats.

    Trump had spent his time in Brussels berating members of the military alliance for failing to spend enough of their money on defense, accusing Europe of freeloading off the U.S. and raising doubts about whether he would come to members’ defense if they were attacked.

    Trump said he made his anger clear to allies on Wednesday.

    “Yesterday I let them know that I was extremely unhappy with what was happening,” Trump said, adding that, in response, European countries agreed to up their spending.

    They have substantially upped their commitment and now we’re very happy and have a very, very powerful, very, very strong NATO,” he said.

    Trump did not specify which countries had committed to what, and it remained unclear whether any had changed their plans. He seemed to suggest a speeded-up timeline, saying nations would be “spending at a much faster clip.”

    He declared victory in North Korea saying the nuclear threat they posed had been eliminated even thought that too ended with a vaguely worded, non- binding statement signing.

    Declare victory, get the photo-op and move on. I predict a "great meeting" with Putin this week.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-12-2018 at 01:35 PM.
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  4. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Just re-stating what was agreed to in 2014 when they pledged to increase military spending to 2% of GDP by 2024.
    Yeah, Zippy's right on this one. Trump taking credit for earlier agreements.

    But this shouldn't even be our main concern. Our main concern should be to disentangle ourselves - they can do as they please. We shouldn't be getting commitments for them to INCREASE their spending - we just need to tell them that we are DECREASING ours. They'll figure out what's in their best interests real quick.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

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  5. #4

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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Yeah, Zippy's right on this one. Trump taking credit for earlier agreements.

    But this shouldn't even be our main concern. Our main concern should be to disentangle ourselves - they can do as they please. We shouldn't be getting commitments for them to INCREASE their spending - we just need to tell them that we are DECREASING ours. They'll figure out what's in their best interests real quick.
    Yeah, that would be a better option... too bad Trump didn't think of that first.


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  6. #5

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    Trump effectively imposes a higher tax on them.
    BIGGER EMOJIS.

  7. #6

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    They have no money available. I doubt this.
    “Force the normies into taking sides. At the moment they are just like "meh, I am minding my own business" retreating culturally into their private bubbles and "safe-spaces" since they don't understand what is going on. When the actual "us vs them" starts, they will be forced to fight or they'll die.” - Anonymous Poster

  8. #7

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    When they don't he will have his excuse to leave NATO.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  9. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    When they don't he will have his excuse to leave NATO.
    Earlier today, during an impromptu, surprise press conference at the conclusion to the NATO summit, president Trump said that the allies achieved "tremendous progress today", and claimed that NATO member states had agreed to boost spending, while hanging the threat of a US pullout from the alliance: “I think I probably can,” was Trump’s answer when asked if he thought he could withdraw the U.S. from NATO without the approval of Congress.
    There was just one problem: first French president Macron, then Angela Merkel both played down, if not outright denied, Trump's claims that a spending agreement had been reached.
    When asked directly whether countries had committed to speed up spending as Trump claimed in his news conference, French President Emmanuel Macron stated the following response, which suggests that plans remains the same as always.
    “Everyone agreed to raise spending as they agreed in 2014, and everyone agreed to respect the commitments they made,” Macron said. “We reaffirmed a credible budget strategy that meets our needs.”
    Separately, Merkel also struck a non-committal tone and said “we should always be looking at what more we can do" which is roughly 180 degrees away from a firm commitment. Her full quote:
    “We’ll have to talk about to what extent we can do more on defense. We presented the current situation. But considering the discussion among the European allies, not only he Americans, I think we need to ask ourselves consistently what more we can do.”
    Meanwhile, Italy's Prime Minister was the closest to contradict Trump outright, telling reporters Italy has no plans to change its defense spending plans as a result of the summit.
    "Italy has focused more on targets other than the 2 percent goal, such as increasing its participation in NATO missions. It isn’t just an accounting issue."
    In other words, just like after the G7 meeting, Trump came, he saw, and left nothing but confusion in his wake.

    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...pending-claims
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  11. #9

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    How much would our defense budget have to increase to hit the 4%? He's talking of a budget increase and more deficit spending!
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  12. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by kpitcher View Post
    How much would our defense budget have to increase to hit the 4%? He's talking of a budget increase and more deficit spending!
    Four percent of our GDP ($18.57 trillion a year) would be $743 billion. Trump likes borrowing money to pay for things (especially other people's money). We already spend about a third of all the military expenditures in the entire world.

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-12-2018 at 02:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

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  13. #11

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    President Donald Trump’s displeasure with the U.S.’s military allies over their relatively low defense spending is no secret. But now, according to media reports, Trump has threatened to withdraw the U.S. from the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO,) or to change its pivotal role in the alliance, over the matter.
    In a closed-doors meeting at the two-day NATO summit in Brussels, Trump is said to have thrown a “tantrum” over the issue, threatening that the U.S. would go it alone on defense issues if the other NATO members—most of whom are European—do not immediately increase military spending as a percentage of gross domestic product. That’s according to Germany’s Süddeutsche Zeitung.
    Meanwhile, the Wall Street Journal reported Trump as saying “I’ll do my own thing” if spending is not immediately increased.
    It is not clear whether he was talking about a partial or full withdrawal from NATO, or whether he was serious about the threat. But the other members were rattled enough to convene an emergency meeting on the spending issue.

    More at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/presi...102542355.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #12

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    http://thehill.com/policy/internatio...draw-from-nato

    Macron: Trump never threatened to withdraw from NATO

    French President Emmanuel Macron on Thursday disputed reports that President Trump threatened to pull the U.S. out of NATO if allies did not commit to a spending increase.

    President Trump never at any moment, either in public or in private, threatened to withdraw from NATO,” Macron told reporters, according to The Associated Press.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #13

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    Macaroni and cheese says it so it must be true.

    LOL
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Macaroni and cheese says it so it must be true.

    LOL
    Well he WAS actually there.

    From the German source in the OP: http://www.sueddeutsche.de/politik/t...reue-1.4051320

    What Trump has threatened in the event of non-compliance with his claim is not known. Theoretically conceivable, for example, would be a reduction in the NATO engagement of the USA, but in the most drastic case even a break with NATO. However, he does not seem to have explicitly threatened to opt out of NATO. In any case, such a law would be difficult to enforce because the Senate would not approve of it.
    (google translation)
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-12-2018 at 02:58 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  17. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Well he WAS actually there.
    So were the sources who disagree.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So were the sources who disagree.
    Actually they don't say that he said he would leave NATO either. See my updated post above.

    Trump does love to exaggerate.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-12-2018 at 03:03 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  20. #17

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    Zippy is right, Trump didn't say he would withdraw, he said he would "do his own thing"

    This is how an intellectually dishonest person operates (zippy, media, Macroni leftist types)
    Last edited by dannno; 07-12-2018 at 03:31 PM.
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