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Thread: Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

  1. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They don't have enough GOLD and their economy is put together with spit and bailing wire, bad as our economy is theirs is much worse due to communist central planning and rampant corruption.
    They don't have enough gold for what?
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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    They don't have enough gold for what?
    To back their currency or save them from collapse.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

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    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    To back their currency or save them from collapse.
    If you truly think that the amount of gold is what matters then you should definitely spend more time reading economic articles and less time posting Trump articles.

    Theoretically, any amount of gold can be used as a gold backing. It is the currency that is revalued to gold, not the amount of gold revalued to the currency.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
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  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Maybe spend less time posting Trump junk and spend more time reading economic articles.
    Maybe you should do more research on how bad China's economy is instead of just hating America first and cheering for America's enemies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    If you truly think that the amount of gold is what matters then you should definitely spend more time reading economic articles and less time posting Trump articles.

    Theoretically, any amount of gold can be used as a gold backing. It is the currency that is revalued to gold, not the amount of gold revalued to the currency.
    Gold is not magic, the amount very much matters, I can't start a new currency backed by my mother's wedding ring.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Maybe you should do more research on how bad China's economy is instead of just hating America first and cheering for America's enemies.
    LOL@hating America. The last refuge of a failed argument.

    I work with Chinese suppliers through alibaba. Have you even spoken to an actual Chinese person in real life?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Gold is not magic, the amount very much matters, I can't start a new currency backed by my mother's wedding ring.
    Theoretically you could. It would be one hella valuable ring but it is possible. But regarding the amounts, China (and Russia) ban practically all gold exports and have been amassing tonnage off the books for years. 20,000 tons seems to be the general consensus by those that are very in tune with PM markets. They've surely bought a lot of gold with the trillions of dollars they've received from us over the years and they don't export practically any of the gold they've mined.
    Last edited by devil21; 07-11-2018 at 08:47 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    LOL@hating America. The last refuge of a failed argument.

    I work with Chinese suppliers through alibaba. Have you even spoken to an actual Chinese person in real life?
    That fallacy isn't worth a rebuttal.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That fallacy isn't worth a rebuttal.
    Didn't think so. You let the media form your perception of the rest of the world and what their conditions are.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Didn't think so. You let the media form your perception of the rest of the world and what their conditions are.
    Actually it is the MSM that would have us believe that China's economy is strong.
    Your perceptions are apparently formed on personal relationships and wishful thinking.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Actually it is the MSM that would have us believe that China's economy is strong.
    Your perceptions are apparently formed on personal relationships and wishful thinking.
    Yeah, personal relationships. You know, that lame "on the ground' stuff. Maybe I should let the 5 major media companies (and getting fewer by the day) form my perceptions and opinions instead. Perhaps then I shall be as enlightened as you.

    eta: Btw, if you admit that the media lies, why post so much of their drivel?
    Last edited by devil21; 07-11-2018 at 09:01 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I think China would be better off not "trading" with us at all.
    That is why China did not put you in charge of long term planning.


  15. #42
    Best case scenario is that China "surrenders", removes all it's trade barriers, and the US does the same. The costs from the tariffs get recouped in the long run through "free and fair" trade.

    I think it's fantasy though. I think the most likely scenario is both sides keep their tariffs, at least until Trump is no longer president. Either way, consumers end up worse off in both countries.
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  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Actually it is the MSM that would have us believe that China's economy is strong.
    Your perceptions are apparently formed on personal relationships and wishful thinking.
    Here's a list of the stuff from China's "weak" economy that we are taxing:

    Aircraft tires
    Nuclear reactors
    Boat motors
    Aircraft engines and engine parts
    Air and gas compressors, which are used in various goods like refrigerators
    Industrial heating equipment
    Scales, mostly for weighing large industrial equipment
    Cranes and other "lifting equipment"
    Bulldozers, backhoes, tampers, boring machines, and other large construction vehicles
    Oil and gas drilling platform parts
    Plows, mowers, combine harvester-threshers, and other large agricultural vehicles
    Dairy milkers, chicken incubators, and other livestock equipment
    Machinery for foods processing, including meat processing and fruit processing
    Machinery for making paper cardboard and other paper products
    Parts of printers and copy machines
    Machinery for processing and molding metals or cement, and their parts
    Machinery for making glass products, including lightbulbs
    Machinery for making rubber or plastic goods
    Ball bearings
    DC and AC generators of various sizes and power levels
    Electricity transformers
    Industrial magnets
    Lithium batteries and other batteries
    Industrial ovens and furnaces
    Radar and radio equipment
    Parts for televisions, video-recording equipment, and similar video products
    Electronic traffics signs
    Electrical equipment such as resistors and circuit breakers
    LEDs
    Trains and rail parts
    Large vehicles using both diesel and non-diesel fuel
    Some cars and trucks, motorcycles, helicopters, airplanes, and spacecraft
    Microscopes and telescopes
    Lasers
    Imaging and navigational equipment
    Medical equipment such as X-rays and pacemakers
    Scientific equipment such as pressure gauges and spectrometers

    We don't need that crap made from peasants anyway.

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    LOL@hating America. The last refuge of a failed argument.

    I work with Chinese suppliers through alibaba. Have you even spoken to an actual Chinese person in real life?

    I agree. The perception that Chinese slave peasants are working in shacks producing crappy t-shirts falls flat when you look at the high tech industrial goods that the China is able to produce. It takes serious high tech factories and manufacturing expertise to be able to produce that stuff.

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Here's a list of the stuff from China's "weak" economy that we are taxing:

    Aircraft tires
    Nuclear reactors
    Boat motors
    Aircraft engines and engine parts
    Air and gas compressors, which are used in various goods like refrigerators
    Industrial heating equipment
    Scales, mostly for weighing large industrial equipment
    Cranes and other "lifting equipment"
    Bulldozers, backhoes, tampers, boring machines, and other large construction vehicles
    Oil and gas drilling platform parts
    Plows, mowers, combine harvester-threshers, and other large agricultural vehicles
    Dairy milkers, chicken incubators, and other livestock equipment
    Machinery for foods processing, including meat processing and fruit processing
    Machinery for making paper cardboard and other paper products
    Parts of printers and copy machines
    Machinery for processing and molding metals or cement, and their parts
    Machinery for making glass products, including lightbulbs
    Machinery for making rubber or plastic goods
    Ball bearings
    DC and AC generators of various sizes and power levels
    Electricity transformers
    Industrial magnets
    Lithium batteries and other batteries
    Industrial ovens and furnaces
    Radar and radio equipment
    Parts for televisions, video-recording equipment, and similar video products
    Electronic traffics signs
    Electrical equipment such as resistors and circuit breakers
    LEDs
    Trains and rail parts
    Large vehicles using both diesel and non-diesel fuel
    Some cars and trucks, motorcycles, helicopters, airplanes, and spacecraft
    Microscopes and telescopes
    Lasers
    Imaging and navigational equipment
    Medical equipment such as X-rays and pacemakers
    Scientific equipment such as pressure gauges and spectrometers

    We don't need that crap made from peasants anyway.
    We should be making all these things for ourselves. If we have to depend on China for them, that is a shameful state of affairs that should be corrected forthwith.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    ďIf you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.Ē - Samuel Adams

  19. #46

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    We should be making all these things for ourselves. If we have to depend on China for them, that is a shameful state of affairs that should be corrected forthwith.
    <facepalm>

    We don't have to "depend" on China for these things - we buy them from China to use our wealth in other places. The "shameful" state of affairs would be to take our wealth away from those other things just to satisfy economic ignorance.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Here's a list of the stuff from China's "weak" economy that we are taxing:

    Aircraft tires
    Nuclear reactors
    Boat motors
    Aircraft engines and engine parts
    Air and gas compressors, which are used in various goods like refrigerators
    Industrial heating equipment
    Scales, mostly for weighing large industrial equipment
    Cranes and other "lifting equipment"
    Bulldozers, backhoes, tampers, boring machines, and other large construction vehicles
    Oil and gas drilling platform parts
    Plows, mowers, combine harvester-threshers, and other large agricultural vehicles
    Dairy milkers, chicken incubators, and other livestock equipment
    Machinery for foods processing, including meat processing and fruit processing
    Machinery for making paper cardboard and other paper products
    Parts of printers and copy machines
    Machinery for processing and molding metals or cement, and their parts
    Machinery for making glass products, including lightbulbs
    Machinery for making rubber or plastic goods
    Ball bearings
    DC and AC generators of various sizes and power levels
    Electricity transformers
    Industrial magnets
    Lithium batteries and other batteries
    Industrial ovens and furnaces
    Radar and radio equipment
    Parts for televisions, video-recording equipment, and similar video products
    Electronic traffics signs
    Electrical equipment such as resistors and circuit breakers
    LEDs
    Trains and rail parts
    Large vehicles using both diesel and non-diesel fuel
    Some cars and trucks, motorcycles, helicopters, airplanes, and spacecraft
    Microscopes and telescopes
    Lasers
    Imaging and navigational equipment
    Medical equipment such as X-rays and pacemakers
    Scientific equipment such as pressure gauges and spectrometers

    We don't need that crap made from peasants anyway.
    The list of the $200 billion new tariffed products from China is eye popping, 205 pages. I think the dollar figure applied is just window dressing. It's pretty much all things like raw materials, chemical precursors, fabrics, furniture, car parts, seafood, etc. Noticeable dollar price increases on a lot of things are going to start kicking in next month.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    eta: Btw, if you admit that the media lies, why post so much of their drivel?
    He posts things that the media reports on reluctantly.

    When the media reports that the 28 pages from the 9/11 commission report about Saudi involvement that were classified may become declassified, do you think that is worth posting? Of course it is. Even though it is the media's worst nightmare, and they may put a bunch of lipstick on it, they still have to write the story sometimes. And it's nice to hear them admit it.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Here's a list of the stuff from China's "weak" economy that we are taxing:

    Aircraft tires
    Nuclear reactors
    Boat motors
    Aircraft engines and engine parts
    Air and gas compressors, which are used in various goods like refrigerators
    Industrial heating equipment
    Scales, mostly for weighing large industrial equipment
    Cranes and other "lifting equipment"
    Bulldozers, backhoes, tampers, boring machines, and other large construction vehicles
    Oil and gas drilling platform parts
    Plows, mowers, combine harvester-threshers, and other large agricultural vehicles
    Dairy milkers, chicken incubators, and other livestock equipment
    Machinery for foods processing, including meat processing and fruit processing
    Machinery for making paper cardboard and other paper products
    Parts of printers and copy machines
    Machinery for processing and molding metals or cement, and their parts
    Machinery for making glass products, including lightbulbs
    Machinery for making rubber or plastic goods
    Ball bearings
    DC and AC generators of various sizes and power levels
    Electricity transformers
    Industrial magnets
    Lithium batteries and other batteries
    Industrial ovens and furnaces
    Radar and radio equipment
    Parts for televisions, video-recording equipment, and similar video products
    Electronic traffics signs
    Electrical equipment such as resistors and circuit breakers
    LEDs
    Trains and rail parts
    Large vehicles using both diesel and non-diesel fuel
    Some cars and trucks, motorcycles, helicopters, airplanes, and spacecraft
    Microscopes and telescopes
    Lasers
    Imaging and navigational equipment
    Medical equipment such as X-rays and pacemakers
    Scientific equipment such as pressure gauges and spectrometers

    We don't need that crap made from peasants anyway.
    You don't understand how China's economy is weak, it is export dependent and it is riddled with corruption, misallocation of resources and debt problems worse than ours.
    It has nothing to do with the technological level of the products they sell us.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    <facepalm>

    We don't have to "depend" on China for these things - we buy them from China to use our wealth in other places. The "shameful" state of affairs would be to take our wealth away from those other things just to satisfy economic ignorance.
    That's nice but it isn't true.
    In the first place we don't use our "wealth" in "better" ways, the corrupt oligarchs who arranged the current trade relationship use it to enslave us and the rest of the world, and in the second an excess of economic "efficiency" can leave you fragile and dependent on hostile foreigners for vital things, it is bad enough if it happens naturally but when it is part of a deliberate strategy by enemies foreign and domestic it can be deadly.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I agree. The perception that Chinese slave peasants are working in shacks producing crappy t-shirts falls flat when you look at the high tech industrial goods that the China is able to produce. It takes serious high tech factories and manufacturing expertise to be able to produce that stuff.
    You just don't understand, the fact that we are becoming dependent on a hostile foreign power for ever more sophisticated and important things makes the problem worse not better.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    That's nice but it isn't true.
    In the first place we don't use our "wealth" in "better" ways
    Typical authoritarian response. I'm sure YOU know what the "better" ways are.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    an excess of economic "efficiency" can leave you fragile and dependent on hostile foreigners for vital things
    Oh, the proud ignorance on display. You don't get weaker through efficiency. Never. You gain wealth and strength. If your concerns about being reliant on hostile foreigners were to ever come to fruition, we would simply use our excess wealth in other places.

    (You do realize that your authoritarian principles about planning economies and strategically planning global interests are exactly what gives us neocons, right???)
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Maybe you should do more research on how bad China's economy is instead of just hating America first and cheering for America's enemies.
    http://www.ecns.cn/news/economy/2018...z7260888.shtml

    China becomes only mid-income economy on world's 20 most innovative list

    China has been the only mid-income economy on the list of the world's 20 most innovative economies, said the Global Innovation Index (GII) 2018 released in New York Tuesday.

    The annual ranking also showed China has the second largest number of Science and Technology Clusters and is making rapid progress on clean energy technologies.

    FROM 22nd TO 17th

    China climbed to 17th on the GII rankings from 22nd last year, showing a steady upward trend over the years, showed the GII 2018.

    "The case of China fits into a trend. We've seen for several years now of China rising in the rankings," said Francis Gurry, Director General of the World Intellectual Property Organization (WIPO), at the launch of the document.

    He noted China is the only economy from the mid-income group to be ranked in the top 20.

    Explaining the leap, he said China's economy is transforming from a labor intensive one towards one with high value addition, with innovation being a central element in this structural transformation driven by a top-down strategy.

    While Switzerland continued to dominate for a 8th year, the document showed, the United States slid from 4th in 2017 to 6th, though in absolute terms, the country remained the top contributor in key innovation inputs and outputs.

    In addition, the United States came second after China in the volume of researchers, patents and scientific and technical publications, noted Bruno Lanvin of INSEAD, a leading business school that co-published the GII.

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-c...-idUSKBN1HO06S

    China posts strong growth despite trade concerns

    BEIJING (Reuters) - Chinaís economy grew at a slightly faster-than-expected pace of 6.8 percent in the first quarter, buoyed by strong consumer demand and robust property investment.

    Resilience in the worldís second-largest economy will likely keep a synchronized global recovery on track for a while longer, even as China faces rising tensions with the United States that could impact billions of dollars in trade.
    Consumption, which accounted for almost 80 percent of economic growth in the first quarter, played a significant role in supporting the economy even as risks grew for Chinese exporters.

    March retail sales rose 10.1 percent from a year earlier, slightly more than expected and the strongest pace in four months, with consumers buying more of almost everything from cosmetics to furniture and home appliances.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post
    I didn't actually read any of the thread. I now mostly just come here to mess with Zip.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  29. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You just don't understand, the fact that we are becoming dependent on a hostile foreign power for ever more sophisticated and important things makes the problem worse not better.
    If by "dependent" you mean that they give us stuff cheaper than we could make it ourselves, then that only helps our position. Seriously... read an economics book, son.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  30. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Typical authoritarian response. I'm sure YOU know what the "better" ways are.
    Nope, but I know when central planning oligarchs are misusing the wealth, you just cut that part off because you couldn't argue with it.



    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    Oh, the proud ignorance on display. You don't get weaker through efficiency. Never. You gain wealth and strength. If your concerns about being reliant on hostile foreigners were to ever come to fruition, we would simply use our excess wealth in other places.
    Efficiency is opposed to stability, ordinarily the two are kept in balance to some degree but our world has been artificially warped towards efficiency.

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    (You do realize that your authoritarian principles about planning economies and strategically planning global interests are exactly what gives us neocons, right???)
    You do realize that they are the ones who created the current state of affairs and oppose any attempts to correct it right????
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  32. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    If by "dependent" you mean that they give us stuff cheaper than we could make it ourselves, then that only helps our position. Seriously... read an economics book, son.
    I mean we no longer have the capacity to make the things we need for ourselves and are therefore susceptible to blackmail.
    It is the same situation the government creates in welfare communities, if you need them to supply your needs they get to dictate how you live.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #58
    Propaganda, the Soviets used to report how marvelous their economy was too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Propaganda, the Soviets used to report how marvelous their economy was too.
    Peace and happiness, my friends.


  35. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Nope, but I know when central planning oligarchs are misusing the wealth, you just cut that part off because you couldn't argue with it.
    Yeah, YOU just want to be the one directing where the wealth should go. You are much more benevolent than they!


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Efficiency is opposed to stability, ordinarily the two are kept in balance to some degree but our world has been artificially warped towards efficiency.
    Da fuq??? We have a myriad of regulations and barriers in place that prevent efficiency! Hell, we've both given Trump credit in other threads about reducing some of those. But now you want to increase barriers because the world is too efficient?! Are you a moron or just confused?

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You do realize that they are the ones who created the current state of affairs and oppose any attempts to correct it right????
    So, your plan to "correct" it is to use more government controls?! Are you even reading your posts??
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

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