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Thread: Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

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  1. #1

    Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

    You sell to us five to one. This is a WAR they will not win. They know they can't. But, they had to try. Now it is a matter of allowing them to "save face" and renegotiate.

    Trump targets $200B more Chinese goods for tariffs

    The Trump administration escalated a mounting trade war with China on Tuesday by publishing a list of $200 billion worth of Chinese goods that it proposes to hit with an additional 10 percent tariff.

    ďRather than address our legitimate concerns, China has begun to retaliate against U.S. products," U.S. Trade Representative Robert Lighthizer said in a statement. "There is no justification for such action."
    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/...tariffs-708707
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.



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  3. #2
    China does not make anything I want .
    Do something Danke

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    China does not make anything I want .
    https://www.knifecountryusa.com/stor...od-handle.html
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



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  5. #4
    He can probably make his own.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He can probably make his own.

    I think he just "picks" them up from rightful owners.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



    Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!


    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    I think he just "picks" them up from rightful owners.
    I have a couple of those but they ( the departed ) were no longer using them .
    Do something Danke

  8. #7
    Uh , yeah , I will pass on the imitation fur embellished handle . I bet that thing does not even have a hand drilled ( flint drill ) hole so you can smoke out of it .
    Do something Danke

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    China does not make anything I want .




    I already have their shotguns.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ryan
    In Washington you can see them everywhere: the Parasites and baby Stalins sucking the life out of a once-great nation.



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  11. #9
    Trade war? Bring it on
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Rand Paul (Vice Pres) 2016!!!!

  12. #10
    Trump imposes tariffs. China can't retaliate because it doesn't import as much stuff which hurts the industries there. China surrenders at some point, removes all trade barriers and Trump does the same. Is that what's supposed to happen eventually?
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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Trump imposes tariffs. China can't retaliate because it doesn't import as much stuff which hurts the industries there. China surrenders at some point, removes all trade barriers and Trump does the same. Is that what's supposed to happen eventually?
    Suppose neither is willing to blink (so far, neither has even hinted at it). Both sides can tariff 100% of each other's goods. Who is the winner? Both face higher prices and fewer jobs. We won because they lost more jobs than we did?
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Suppose neither is willing to blink (so far, neither has even hinted at it). Both sides can tariff 100% of each other's goods. Who is the winner? Both face higher prices and fewer jobs. We won because they lost more jobs than we did?
    We will start getting industries and jobs back, they will collapse and no longer serve as a boogeyman for the MIC.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    We will start getting industries and jobs back, they will collapse and no longer serve as a boogeyman for the MIC.
    A lot of those jobs are gone forever- lost to technology.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    A lot of those jobs are gone forever- lost to technology.
    There are always some jobs in any industry even if many of them have been automated.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Suppose neither is willing to blink (so far, neither has even hinted at it). Both sides can tariff 100% of each other's goods. Who is the winner? Both face higher prices and fewer jobs. We won because they lost more jobs than we did?
    Jefferson should've let the Barbary pirates rip us off forever because fighting back caused some temporary pain? Let's be real, the worst impact we've seen so far is farmers having to buy one Lamborghini this year instead of two. Most Americans benefit from the tariffs with lower grocery prices. Prices on durable goods will increase, but they will actually be "durable" when they're made in America. I buy made in the USA whenever I can anyways because it's cheaper to pay twice the price for something if it will last four times as long.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Jefferson should've let the Barbary pirates rip us off forever because fighting back caused some temporary pain? Let's be real, the worst impact we've seen so far is farmers having to buy one Lamborghini this year instead of two. Most Americans benefit from the tariffs with lower grocery prices. Prices on durable goods will increase, but they will actually be "durable" when they're made in America. I buy made in the USA whenever I can anyways because it's cheaper to pay twice the price for something if it will last four times as long.
    Farmers are driving Lamborghinis?

    https://work.chron.com/much-money-fa...ally-3185.html

    According to salary data for farmers, ranchers and other agricultural managers from May 2016, the average salary is $75,790 a year. In contrast, they make a median salary of $66,360, with half getting lower salaries and half being paid more. The lower 10 percent of these farm professionals make less than $35,020, and the top 10 percent receive earnings of more than $126,070. The average farmer salary varies depending on how well the crops do and changes in operational costs for farmers.
    Things like weather can change meaning that one year may be good and another bad too. They need to make enough in good years to tide them through bad ones.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by misterx View Post
    Jefferson should've let the Barbary pirates rip us off forever because fighting back caused some temporary pain? Let's be real, the worst impact we've seen so far is farmers having to buy one Lamborghini this year instead of two. Most Americans benefit from the tariffs with lower grocery prices. Prices on durable goods will increase, but they will actually be "durable" when they're made in America. I buy made in the USA whenever I can anyways because it's cheaper to pay twice the price for something if it will last four times as long.
    It doesn't even cause any effect. Look, all these farm products are commodity products. They are globally interchangeable. They are traded on an efficient global market.

    Let's say China tariffs- -- or forget that: even embargoes! -- all American soybeans. OK? What effect will that have. Let's see: No more soybeans sold to China.

    From America.

    Is China still going to consume soybeans?

    Ahh.....

    So the price of soybeans is 800 let's say. This is a global, worldwide price, remember, on a global, worldwide market. China embargoes the US. What then happens to the soybean price?

    Well, again, does China keep consuming soybeans?

    They do? Well imagine that. So that means they will be buying an equal number of beans from someone else. From Chile or Lima or wherever. And so that means those beans are being re-routed and whose will fill the void in their former destinations? Could it be beans from...... Iowa?

    It all evens out and makes no difference in the end. The price is still 800. One soybean is much like another. The market is liquid. It's akin to sitting in the middle of a pond with a big bucket, scooping up water from one side of the boat and dumping it out on the other side. How long will it take you to punish all those bad fish on the left side by lowering their water level?

    How long?

    Yeah.

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    It doesn't even cause any effect. Look, all these farm products are commodity products. They are globally interchangeable. They are traded on an efficient global market.
    Does this also apply to all of the tariffs that the US enacts?
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by H_H View Post
    It doesn't even cause any effect. Look, all these farm products are commodity products. They are globally interchangeable. They are traded on an efficient global market.

    Let's say China tariffs- -- or forget that: even embargoes! -- all American soybeans. OK? What effect will that have. Let's see: No more soybeans sold to China.

    From America.

    Is China still going to consume soybeans?

    Ahh.....

    So the price of soybeans is 800 let's say. This is a global, worldwide price, remember, on a global, worldwide market. China embargoes the US. What then happens to the soybean price?

    Well, again, does China keep consuming soybeans?

    They do? Well imagine that. So that means they will be buying an equal number of beans from someone else. From Chile or Lima or wherever. And so that means those beans are being re-routed and whose will fill the void in their former destinations? Could it be beans from...... Iowa?

    It all evens out and makes no difference in the end. The price is still 800. One soybean is much like another. The market is liquid. It's akin to sitting in the middle of a pond with a big bucket, scooping up water from one side of the boat and dumping it out on the other side. How long will it take you to punish all those bad fish on the left side by lowering their water level?

    How long?

    Yeah.
    It could have a huge effect on US farmers. If China buys less, who will buy more from us to make up the difference? China buys more than a third of US soybeans. But maybe the Netherlands will buy more?

    Soybean export destinations, bushels – week ended April 13–USDA



    https://www.bloomberg.com/graphics/2018-soybean-tariff/

    China is the world’s largest soybean consumer and remains heavily reliant on imports to satisfy demand. That’s why the country’s buying habits have an outsize influence on global prices. By imposing the tariffs on U.S. agricultural products, China is targeting one of the few sectors of the American economy that runs a trade surplus at a time when net farm income is poised to fall to a 12–year low. Soybeans are one of the largest U.S. goods exported to China—trailing just civilian aircraft and motor vehicles by value this year, Bloomberg Intelligence analysts Alvin Tai and Chris Muckensturm said in a report.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-25-2018 at 01:16 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    Trump imposes tariffs. China can't retaliate because it doesn't import as much stuff which hurts the industries there. China surrenders at some point, removes all trade barriers and Trump does the same. Is that what's supposed to happen eventually?
    Or they dump all of their Treasuries, continue devaluing the yuan (which is more damaging to the trade deficit than tariffs can fix and is causing the dollar to soar, thus making our exports even tougher), then declare the yuan/rmb gold backed and practically overnight turn the FRN dollar into just another 3rd world currency. Bye bye petrodollar reserve status.

    Sorry but China actually holds the cards now. I'd argue by intentional design by the global bankers but that won't matter much if the FRN dollar loses 50% of it's current purchasing power and suddenly everything is twice as expensive as it was last month.

    The whole shebang is about how to remove the petrodollar system. It is wise to view all events from that perspective. It's all very complicated. Besides, with Xi now "President for life" in China, there's no way he'll let any perception that Trump bested him creep into the narrative. Trump, otoh, seems very ripe for a flaying by the US media for "losing" to the Chinese, thus paving the way for the socialist Dem candidate in 2020.
    Last edited by devil21; 07-11-2018 at 08:25 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

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  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Or they dump all of their Treasuries, continue devaluing the yuan (which is more damaging to the trade deficit than tariffs can fix and is causing the dollar to soar, thus making our exports even tougher), then declare the yuan/rmb gold backed and practically overnight turn the FRN dollar into just another 3rd world currency. Bye bye petrodollar reserve status.

    Sorry but China actually holds the cards now. I'd argue by intentional design by the global bankers but that won't matter much if the FRN dollar loses 50% of it's current purchasing power and suddenly everything is twice as expensive as it was last month.
    They can't do what you suggested without collapsing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They can't do what you suggested without collapsing.
    Again, they have the GOLD. Along with the other countries the Chinese have been working with, like Russia and India. Any collapse in China would be very, very short lived and most of their people are already accustomed to working their asses off for little pay. Our collapse, however, would be epic by comparison. Forcing the man-bun crowd into factory jobs? The free-stuff crowd losing their free stuff? You don't really think all of this police security state being implemented is for giggles, do ya?

    Maybe spend less time posting Trump junk and spend more time reading economic articles.
    Last edited by devil21; 07-11-2018 at 08:32 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Again, they have the GOLD. Along with the other countries the Chinese have been working with, like Russia and India. Any collapse in China would be very, very short lived and most of their people are already accustomed to working their asses off for little pay. Our collapse, however, would be epic by comparison. Forcing the man-bun crowd into factory jobs? The free-stuff crowd losing their free stuff? You don't really think all of this police security state being implemented is for giggles, do ya?
    They don't have enough GOLD and their economy is put together with spit and bailing wire, bad as our economy is theirs is much worse due to communist central planning and rampant corruption.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Maybe spend less time posting Trump junk and spend more time reading economic articles.
    Maybe you should do more research on how bad China's economy is instead of just hating America first and cheering for America's enemies.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Or they dump all of their Treasuries, continue devaluing the yuan (which is more damaging to the trade deficit than tariffs can fix and is causing the dollar to soar, thus making our exports even tougher), then declare the yuan/rmb gold backed and practically overnight turn the FRN dollar into just another 3rd world currency. Bye bye petrodollar reserve status.

    Sorry but China actually holds the cards now. I'd argue by intentional design by the global bankers but that won't matter much if the FRN dollar loses 50% of it's current purchasing power and suddenly everything is twice as expensive as it was last month.
    The fact this argument is hardly even made here in the tariff discussion really says something.
    "The rifle itself has no moral stature, since it has no will of its own. Naturally, it may be used by evil men for evil purposes, but there are more good men than evil, and while the latter cannot be persuaded to the path of righteousness by propaganda, they can certainly be corrected by good men with rifles." óJeff Cooper

    Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by TomtheTinker View Post
    The fact this argument is hardly even made here in the tariff discussion really says something.
    China doesn't have enough gold to back up such a strategy and their corrupt centrally planned economy wouldn't survive long enough to pull it off.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    China doesn't have enough gold to back up such a strategy and their corrupt centrally planned economy wouldn't survive long enough to pull it off.
    Maybe not yet but if they keep buying gold with their excess reserves they will.

    And remember that in many ways China's economy is more free market than ours. For one thing corporate owners get to keep a larger share of their profits than US owners.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by TomtheTinker View Post
    The fact this argument is hardly even made here in the tariff discussion really says something.
    It's a hypothetical scenario but a scenario the media could run with if instructed to.

    It's rumored that, in reality, the Chinese have put their Treasury holdings up as collateral for cash loans and have no intention of paying the loans back. That would explain why the yuan is being devalued and dollar demand has been rising and Chinese have quietly been buying up everything in the US that's not nailed down. Instead, the banks that made the loans will quietly take the collateral Treasuries and send them back to the Fed via reverse repo operations. Financial engineering at its finest.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    China doesn't have enough gold to back up such a strategy and their corrupt centrally planned economy wouldn't survive long enough to pull it off.
    Still posting economic ignorance even after I set you straight? smh
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Still posting economic ignorance even after I set you straight? smh
    Your claim that the amount of gold doesn't matter is pure nonsense.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    It's a hypothetical scenario but a scenario the media could run with if instructed to.

    It's rumored that, in reality, the Chinese have put their Treasury holdings up as collateral for cash loans and have no intention of paying the loans back. That would explain why the yuan is being devalued and dollar demand has been rising and Chinese have quietly been buying up everything in the US that's not nailed down. Instead, the banks that made the loans will quietly take the collateral Treasuries and send them back to the Fed via reverse repo operations. Financial engineering at its finest.
    How did they get the cash loans?

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