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Thread: Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Intoxiklown View Post
    Bear in mind I skimmed some posts of this thread catching up (I've been on an "internet break" and doing some traveling with my family for several weeks), so if I say something that someone else already addressed pardon me.

    The one thing that Trump has against him in this whole thing is when he returned from Beijing in May after they had put together a deal and had a "gentleman's handshake" sealing it, only to renege on it after some political pressure from the GOP. While it wasn't malicious or something akin to him lying to them, I saw a panel discussion (it's around 30 minutes, but I'll find it and link it if you care to see it) talking about this. One of the panel members was a guy named Victor Gao who has more titles than you'd believe. But to list a few, he's Chairman of China Energy Security Institute, VP for Center for China and Globalization, the director of the China National Association of International Studies, as well as an international relations analyst for the government. But he made a few comments that has me wondering if Trump can do what it will take to facilitate the talks.

    The thing he (Gao) kept going back to was Trump changing his mind on what they understood to be an agreed upon deal. Basically, they took it as an insult. And more than once he made the statement that if it meant both the Chinese and the US economies crashing then so be it. Actually, I'll go ahead and link the panel under this because it's interesting (and I'll admit kind of funny) watching him talk. Because the more he goes on the more pissed he gets. I mean he's talking about forcing American companies out of China (he lists Ford, GM and Apple by name) as well as blocking any and all American access to the Chinese market citing how they are on track to be the dominant global market in the next 10 to 15 years. LOL....he's talking some real scorched earth stuff.

    That's why I'm curious if Trump will do the simple thing required to salve their butt hurt and simply apologize to President Xi. Because I'm concerned Trump would react to that with the obvious, "Apologize for what? Nothing was signed yet, we were in the middle of talks". And while he'd be right, that has nothing to do with those little bastards feeling insulted. If you've ever been to Asia you understand what I'm talking about. If you haven't....lol, ask someone you know who has. It's hard for westerners who've never been to an Asian nation to fully grasp, but insulting them (even done inadvertently) gets the same reaction from them that you'd experience if someone walked up and slapped your wife and spit in your child's face in front of you....haha.

    It's definitely interesting watching both China and the US move their pieces around the board. One of the things that is really giving Trump's tariffs some sting is the fact that production costs in China are probably higher than most people think due to the rise of China's middle class which is also causing a rise in salaries. China is working to counter this with investments in Africa. They're basically buying UN votes by investing in those nations (which I know that's the same thing the US does), but those investments give them a twofold return as they are using that African labor for a cheap resource much as we did to China.



    This is that panel discussion.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZLZZaVgNUTY
    Trump keeps showing he can't be trusted. He makes promises with countries and fails to follow through. He breaks established agreements without any legitimate basis other than he "doesn't like it"-- everything was the "worst deal ever". He imposes tariffs and then declares a "tariff truce" and then threatens to add even more tariffs. He makes a grand show of meeting with leaders, getting their pictures taken, and agreeing to absolutely nothing and declaring "huge progress". Who would want to enter into a new agreement with somebody with a history of not keeping his word?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-07-2018 at 01:24 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Who would want to enter into a new agreement with somebody with a history of not keeping his word?
    I think you might be one of the first in line.

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Trump keeps showing he can't be trusted. He makes promises with countries and fails to follow through. He breaks established agreements without any legitimate basis other than he "doesn't like it"-- everything was the "worst deal ever". He imposes tariffs and then declares a "tariff truce" and then threatens to add even more tariffs. He makes a grand show of meeting with leaders, getting their pictures taken, and agreeing to absolutely nothing and declaring "huge progress". Who would want to enter into a new agreement with somebody with a history of not keeping his word?
    The EU isn't going to roll back any tariffs now?
    Protest the NSA! Send encrypted e-mails!
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  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    The EU isn't going to roll back any tariffs now?
    No tariffs have been rolled back. The only agreement was to maybe meet later to talk about it more. No meetings currently scheduled. Well, they did agree not to impose any NEW tariffs for now. Amazing progress was made! They are "working big time!" They haven't met with the Chinese in months. NAFTA is frozen.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-07-2018 at 01:31 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    The EU isn't going to roll back any tariffs now?
    Zippy is just spewing FUD as usual.


    FUD - Fear, Uncertainty, Doubt.

  7. #216
    More "rollbacks".

    https://www.politico.com/newsletters...s-goods-307156

    China strikes back with more tariffs on U.S. goods

    CHINA STRIKES BACK WITH MORE TARIFFS ON U.S. GOODS: Expect more fallout this week from China’s announcement Friday that it would hit about $60 billion worth of U.S. exports with new tariffs in response to President Donald Trump’s decision last week to pursue higher trade penalties on Beijing. The move elevated concern in the business sector that there’s no end in sight for the growing trade war between the world’s two largest economies.

    Beijing’s logic: China said it’s taking the action “because the U.S. side has repeatedly escalated the situation despite the interest of both enterprises and consumers” and it must “defend the country’s dignity and the interests of the people, defend free trade and the multilateral system, and defend the common interests of all countries in the world.”

    What to expect: Under the plan, China would impose tariffs – between 5 percent and 25 percent – on nearly all of the $130 billion in goods imported from the United States. China’s Ministry of Finance said Friday the new tariffs would target more than 5,200 types of U.S. goods, including energy exports like biodiesel and liquefied natural gas and more U.S. agricultural goods like lamb and honey.
    More at link.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Great job Zippy. Have you ever considered hanging out in a place where you would be liked?

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He [Trump] makes promises with countries and fails to follow through.

    Oh nose; a politician who broke a promise! Unprecedented!
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    ...I believe that when the government is capable of doing a thing, it will.
    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    which one of yall fuckers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters
    Quote Originally Posted by Dforkus View Post
    Zippy's posts are a great contribution.




    Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members

  11. #219
    More tariffs against Chinese goods set to take effect August 23.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-chinese-goods


    Can anyone show me anything official that imposes tariffs? Act of Congress? Presidential Order? Anything other than Trump's moving lips and media parrots? +rep to whoever can provide official proof of imposition of actual tariffs.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
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  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    More tariffs against Chinese goods set to take effect August 23.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-chinese-goods


    Can anyone show me anything official that imposes tariffs? Act of Congress? Presidential Order? Anything other than Trump's moving lips and media parrots? +rep to whoever can provide official proof of imposition of actual tariffs.
    https://usitc.gov/tata/hts/archive/index.htm - Not very transparent however.

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    https://usitc.gov/tata/hts/archive/index.htm - Not very transparent however.
    Yeah that's pretty much useless since all of the 2018 listings are as of 3-1-18 and not updated since and make no differentiation between "Chinese" tariffs or goods from anywhere else. +rep for the effort though. If we're indeed imposing additional tariffs against particular goods from particular countries, there should be some particular evidence of it. I sure can't find it.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    More tariffs against Chinese goods set to take effect August 23.

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...-chinese-goods


    Can anyone show me anything official that imposes tariffs? Act of Congress? Presidential Order? Anything other than Trump's moving lips and media parrots? +rep to whoever can provide official proof of imposition of actual tariffs.

    List of the new tariff items: https://ustr.gov/sites/default/files...%20Tranche.pdf

    These seem to be part of the $50 in tariffs announced in May. $34 billion worth was listed in June- this is the remaining $16 billion. The list is "Final Second Tranche" or Part II of the list.

    https://markets.businessinsider.com/...8-8-1027429565

    Here's a timeline of the US-China trade war so far:

    March 1: President Donald Trump announces tariffs on all imports of steel and aluminum, including metals from China.

    March 22: Trump announces plans to hit $50 billion worth of Chinese goods with a 25% tariff. China announces tariffs in retaliation to the steel and aluminum duties and promises a response to the latest US announcement.

    April 3: The US trade representative announces a list of Chinese goods subject to the tariffs. There is a mandatory 60-day comment period for industries to ask for exemptions from the tariffs.

    April 4: China rolls out a list of more than 100 US goods worth roughly $50 billion that are subject to retaliatory tariffs.

    May 19: After a meeting, the two countries announce the outline of a trade deal to avoid the tariffs.

    May 29: The White House announces that the tariffs on $50 billion of Chinese goods will move forward, with the final list of goods released June 15. The move appears to wreck the nascent trade deal.

    June 15: Trump rolls out the final list of goods subject to new tariffs. Chinese imports worth $34 billion would be subject to the new 25% tariff as of July 6, with another $16 billion worth of imports subject to the tariff at a later date. China retaliates with an equivalent set of tariffs.

    June 18: Trump threatens a 10% tariff on another $200 billion worth of Chinese goods.

    July 6: The first tranche of tariffs on $34 billion worth of Chinese goods takes effect; China responds in kind.

    July 10: The US releases an initial list of an additional $200 billion worth of Chinese goods that could be subject to a 10% tariff.

    August 1: Washington more than doubles the value of its tariff threats against Beijing, announcing plans to increase the size of proposed duties on $200 billion worth of Chinese goods to 25% from 10%.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-07-2018 at 04:27 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #223
    That's just a list of materials without any indication what the tariff amount is, whose products it is directed at, etc. That could be anything at all.

    Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm looking for some sort of official act that gives the weight of law to impose these new tariffs that are directed at Chinese products and 25% amount. Namely, a presidential memo or order directing this action by the USTR. Something "for the record".
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That's just a list of materials without any indication what the tariff amount is, whose products it is directed at, etc. That could be anything at all.

    Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm looking for some sort of official act that gives the weight of law to impose these new tariffs that are directed at Chinese products and 25% amount. Namely, a presidential memo or order directing this action by the USTR. Something "for the record".
    Seems part of the $50 billion subject to a 25% tariff which was announced in May. $34 billion of that was announced (listed) in June with the remaining $16 billion to be listed later. It is later.

    https://www.npr.org/2018/06/15/62025...will-retaliate

    Trump Hits China With Tariffs On $50 Billion Of Goods; China Says It Will Retaliate

    President Trump is enacting a 25 percent tariff on $50 billion of Chinese goods "that contain industrially significant technologies," after months of exchanging threats amid concerns over a potential trade war.

    U.S. Customs and Border Protection will begin to collect tariffs on the first $34 billion worth of Chinese imports on July 6. A second set of imports subject to tariffs is still under review.

    China quickly announced it would impose retaliatory tariffs of the same size.

    The White House had set a June 15 deadline for announcing the full list of items that will see a tariff imposed, focusing on areas such as aerospace, robotics and machinery. Released Friday, the list includes some 1,100 products.

    Trump announced Friday:

    "My great friendship with President Xi of China and our country's relationship with China are both very important to me. Trade between our nations, however, has been very unfair, for a very long time. This situation is no longer sustainable. China has, for example, long been engaging in several unfair practices related to the acquisition of American intellectual property and technology."

    China said it would impose 25 percent tariffs starting the same day — July 6 — on about $34 billion worth of U.S. products, including types of meat, seafood, dairy products, beans, nuts and cars.

    The Chinese commerce ministry said it would add another $16 billion worth of other U.S. products including coal, crude oil, gasoline and other chemicals as well as medical equipment to its list of taxed imports at a later date.
    June 15th a list worth $34 billion was released. This is the remaining $16 billion.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 08-07-2018 at 05:09 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.



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  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    He just likes to promote things which cause conflict. Trade wars. Immigration.
    Projection.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Projection.
    Trade wars = Immigration ?

  20. #227
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Trade wars = Immigration ?
    Two topics- not one.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    If you read enough of Swordsmyth's posts it becomes clear that Swordsmyth basically wants Trump to be dictator.
    I do favor Constitutional changes to concentrate more power in the executive since that branch is easier to hold accountable but I would also want the President to be able to be fired at any time by a rough equivalent of the Electoral College, you can't mix part of my preferred system with our current system though, under our current system I want Congress to retract all the powers it has unconstitutionally delegated so that no future presidents may use them but until they do Trump should use them all to fix the problems that previous presidents have caused with them.

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Another angle to consider is: If Trump doesn't have constitutional or statutory authority to impose taxes, only Congress does and hasn't done it, then perhaps it's all bull$#@! and trade war/tariffs are only mass consumption cover stories for other things happening, like the dollar losing global reserve status and the effects that has on prices.
    He does have statutory authority, Congress unconstitutionally gave it to him.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Trade wars = Immigration ?
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Two topics- not one.
    The two are connected but the point is that zippy and his ilk are the ones who started conflicts about them and now they accuse people like me of doing so for saying we should fight back.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Two topics- not one.
    Immigration causes conflict?

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    That's just a list of materials without any indication what the tariff amount is, whose products it is directed at, etc. That could be anything at all.

    Maybe I wasn't clear. I'm looking for some sort of official act that gives the weight of law to impose these new tariffs that are directed at Chinese products and 25% amount. Namely, a presidential memo or order directing this action by the USTR. Something "for the record".
    He's using national security / state of emergency clauses in existing, old trade laws as his justification. Specifically the Trade Expansion Act.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUT...E-76-Pg872.pdf

    Page 6 of the PDF, which is labelled as page 877 of the document.

    (b) Upon request of the head of any department or agency, uponapplication of an interested party, or upon his own motion, the Directorof the Office of Emergency Planning (hereinafter in this sectionreferred to as the "Director") shall immediately make an appropriateinvestigation, in the course of which he shall seek information andadvice from other appropriate departments and agencies, to determinethe effects on the national security of imports of the article which isthe subject of such request, application, or motion. If, as a result ofsuch investigation, the Director is of the opinion that the said articleis being imported into the United States in such quantities or underSuch circumstances as to threaten to impair the national security, heshall promptly so advise the President, and, unless the Presidentdetermines that the article is not being imported into the United Statesin such quantities or under such circumstances as to threaten to impairthe national security as set forth in this section, he shall take suchaction, and for such time, as he deems necessary to adjust the importsof such article and its derivatives so that such imports will not sothreaten to impair the national security.

    Not really any limits on that whatsoever.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  25. #232
    Completing the latest round of tariffs pledged against China, the US Trade Representative announced on Tuesday (after the close of course) it will impose 25% tariffs on $16 billion-worth of Chinese imports starting August 23. The new round of tariffs completes Trump's previously disclosed threat to impose $50 billion of import taxes on Chinese goods. The first $34 billion-worth went into effect on July 6th.
    According to the USTR statement, customs will collect duties on 279 product lines, down from 284 items on the initial list; as Bloomberg notes, this will be the second time the U.S. slaps duties on Chinese goods in about the past month, overruling complaints by American companies that such moves will raise business costs, tax US consumers and raise prices.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ting-august-23
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    He's using national security / state of emergency clauses in existing, old trade laws as his justification. Specifically the Trade Expansion Act.

    https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/STATUT...E-76-Pg872.pdf

    Page 6 of the PDF, which is labelled as page 877 of the document.




    Not really any limits on that whatsoever.
    Thanks, that's the closest explanation yet but still nothing of an official "for the record" document. Seems to me that there's a lot of people talking about tariffs but nothing official that directs them. Something this huge would/should have at least an Executive Order attached, when you consider the relatively minor and pointless things that EO's are issued over. I'm maintaining, minus official evidence, that this is bs cover for price effects domestically of global de-dollarization.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Thanks, that's the closest explanation yet but still nothing of an official "for the record" document. Seems to me that there's a lot of people talking about tariffs but nothing official that directs them. Something this huge would/should have at least an Executive Order attached, when you consider the relatively minor and pointless things that EO's are issued over. I'm maintaining, minus official evidence, that this is bs cover for price effects domestically of global de-dollarization.
    You're right, that's just what a spokesman said was the legal justification for their actions. My loose understanding is that any tariffs based on national security come directly from the executive, and tariffs based on "fairness" come from the commerce department. What exact memo or order or whatever executes those tariffs, I'm not sure.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    You're right, that's just what a spokesman said was the legal justification for their actions. My loose understanding is that any tariffs based on national security come directly from the executive, and tariffs based on "fairness" come from the commerce department. What exact memo or order or whatever executes those tariffs, I'm not sure.
    So far, the only official record I can find is the original proclamation imposing steel and aluminum import tariffs from March 8. Nothing official at all since then regarding all these other tariffs.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  30. #236

    Handling of U.S. trade dispute causes rift in Chinese leadership: sources

    https://www.reuters.com/article/us-u...-idUSKBN1KU0TU

    AUGUST 9, 2018

    BEIJING (Reuters) - A growing trade war with the United States is causing rifts within China’s Communist Party, with some critics saying that an overly nationalistic Chinese stance may have hardened the U.S. position, according to four sources close to the government.

    President Xi Jinping still has a firm grip on power, but an unusual surge of criticism about economic policy and how the government has handled the trade war has revealed rare cracks in the ruling Communist Party.

    A backlash is being felt at the highest levels of the government, possibly hitting a close aide to Xi, his ideology chief and strategist Wang Huning, according to two sources familiar with discussions in leadership circles.

    A prominent and influential academic whose views have found favor in some party quarters has also come under attack for his strident views on Chinese power.

    Wang, who was the architect of the “China Dream”, Xi’s vision for China to become a strong and prosperous nation, has been taken to task by the Chinese leader for crafting an excessively nationalistic image for the country, which has only provoked the United States, the sources said.

    “He’s in trouble for mishandling the propaganda and hyping up China too much,” said one of the sources, who has ties to China’s leadership and propaganda system.

    The office of the party’s spokesman did not respond to a request for comment on Wang and his relationship with Xi, or on whether China had erred in its messaging in the trade war.

    There is a growing feeling within the Chinese government that the outlook for China has “become grim”, according to a government policy advisor, following the deterioration in relations between China and the United States over trade. The advisor requested anonymity.

    Those feelings are also shared by other influential voices.

    “Many economists and intellectuals are upset about China’s trade war policies,” an academic at a Chinese policy think tank told Reuters, speaking on condition of anonymity due to the sensitivity of the issue. “The overarching view is that China’s current stance has been too hard-line and the leadership has clearly misjudged the situation.”

    That view contrasts with the thinking at the beginning of the year of many Chinese academics who had touted China’s ability to withstand the trade row in the face of Trump’s perceived political weakness at home.

    China thought it had reached a deal with Washington in May to avoid a trade war, but was shocked when the Trump administration, in Beijing’s eyes, went back on that agreement.

    “The evolution from a trade conflict to trade war has made people rethink things,” the policy advisor said. “This is seen as being related to the exaggeration of China’s strength by some Chinese institutions and scholars that have influenced the U.S. perceptions and even domestic views.”

    One official who is familiar with China’s propaganda efforts said the messaging had gone astray.

    “In the trade war, the line of thinking in the propaganda has been that Trump is crazy,” said the official. “In fact, what he is scared of is us getting strong.”

    CONFIDENT CHINA?
    Under Xi, officials have become increasingly confident in proclaiming what they see as China’s rightful place as a world leader, casting off a long-held maxim of Deng Xiaoping, the former paramount leader who said the country needed to “bide its time and hide its strength”.

    That confidence has been apparent as the government pushes its Belt and Road initiative to develop trade routes between East and West and takes a hard line on territorial issues such as the South China Sea and Taiwan.

    Hu Angang, an economics professor at Tsinghua University and an expert in the field of “Chinese exceptionalism”, is one prominent advocate for the view that China has achieved “comprehensive national power”.

    In recent weeks, Hu has faced a public backlash, with critics blaming him for making the United States wary of China by trumpeting and exaggerating its relative economic, technical and military might.

    That view of Hu is also shared by some people in official circles, according to the policy advisor.

    Hu declined to comment when contacted by Reuters.

    The cracks within the party come as China’s stock markets and currency have slumped, and the government has struggled to shore up the economy to cushion the impact of the trade war.

    China in recent weeks has encouraged more lending and pledged to use fiscal policy - including tax cuts and more funding for local governments - to combat slowing economic growth and rising uncertainty driven in part by the escalating trade war.

    Xi has had other fires to hose too, including public anger over a vaccine fraud case and protests in Beijing this week by investors in failed online lending platforms.

    Meanwhile, top leaders are believed to be meeting for secretive annual talks, most likely at the seaside resort of Beidaihe, leaving a policy vacuum as Xi and other officials all but vanish from state media. Based on what has happened in previous years, that could be for up to two weeks.

    It is unclear if Wang, the propaganda boss, will face any consequences, and there may be other reasons for the tensions within the party related to him.

    A third source with ties to the leadership told Reuters the tension had to do with Wang opposing a cult of personality that has been forming around Xi.

    Wang still features in state media and diplomats and leadership sources say he is unlikely to be removed from the Standing Committee, the party body that runs China, in what would be an unprecedented move.

    Though official media has in recent days been filled with defiant commentary regarding the United States and the trade war, there have been signs of a shift in China’s messaging.

    Beijing has begun downplaying Made in China 2025, the state-backed industrial policy that is core to Washington’s complaints about the country’s technological ambitions.

    State television’s English-language news channel CGTN, which is aimed at foreigners, has also been focusing on how ordinary Americans will be affected by more expensive prices for cheap made-in-China consumer goods and the damage tariffs will do to the U.S. economy.

    But the thinking in Chinese government circles is that the damage has already been done - and that China has learned the hard way that its domestic propaganda is now being scrutinized abroad in a way it never was before.

    “It’s impossible for China to ‘bide its time and hide its strength’, but at least we can control the volume of our own propaganda and tell China’s story the proper way,” the policy insider said.

    “When the size of China’s economy was small, it got little outside attention but China is now closely watched.”

  31. #237
    A bear of very little brain:

    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #238
    The United States will begin collecting 25 percent tariffs on another $16 billion in Chinese goods on Aug. 23, the U.S. Trade Representative’s office said on Tuesday as it published a final tariff list targeting 279 imported product lines.

    The latest $16 billion list will hit semiconductors from China, even though many of the basic chips in these products originate from the United States, Taiwan or South Korea.
    The 25 percent tariffs also will apply to a broad range of Chinese electronics, plastics, chemicals and railway equipment that the Office of the U.S. Trade Representative (USTR) has said benefit from the “Made in China 2025” industrial plan, aimed at making China competitive in high-technology industries.


    USTR removed a handful of items from its original list after a 46-day public comment and review period found they would cause “severe economic harm.”
    These were intermodal shipping containers, floating docks, splitting and slicing machines used with wood, bone and hard plastics, extremely thin slicing tools known as microtomes, and alginic acid, derived from seaweed and used in pharmaceuticals, textile printing and dental impressions.

    More at: https://in.reuters.com/article/us-us...-idINKBN1KS2CB
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #239
    China abruptly changed course Wednesday and removed oil from a list of American products it is subjecting to tariffs, as the energy-hungry country acknowledged the limits on trade war losses it can absorb.
    Beijing announced on Wednesday that it would impose retaliatory 25 percent tariffs on $16 billion worth of U.S. imports, a response to the Trump administration after it issued similar tariffs against China on Tuesday.
    China's new tariffs will target U.S. automobiles, steel products, medical equipment, and some energy products, including coal, diesel, gasoline, and propane.

    But for now, China will not put tariffs on U.S. crude oil. An early draft of potential tariff targets published by China in June did include crude oil.
    China is the largest U.S. market for crude exports. Experts say China spared U.S. oil because it may struggle to get it elsewhere due to disruptions from other major suppliers.
    “China’s decision to take crude oil off the list may signal its realization that the country would have more to lose from a 25 percent tariff on U.S. crude as the supply related uncertainty deepens in the global oil market,” said Jane Nakano, a senior fellow in the Energy and National Security Program at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “Denying itself access to U.S. crude would have made crude oil imports more expensive for China and may have triggered energy security concern, especially if world developments drive up the global oil prices.”

    More at: https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/p...o-its-own-head
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #240
    China’s soybean and soymeal prices jumped on Wednesday, with beans posting their biggest daily gain in a decade, as data showing a drop in soybean imports stirred supply concerns as a bitter trade dispute between Washington and Beijing plays out.

    Customs data showed arrivals fell in July as processors ended months of buying to build supplies before tariffs took effect.
    Beijing hit U.S. shipments of soybeans with a 25 percent tariff on July 6 in retaliation for a similar move by Washington as part of the tit-for-tat trade dispute.
    While domestic inventories remain near record highs after crushers built up stockpiles of Brazilian beans ahead of the tariff deadline, analysts said the fall in imports kindled worries about supplies in the fourth quarter when the Brazilian crop is sold out and the next U.S. harvest starts.
    The United States is China’s No. 2 supplier of soybeans, which are processed to make cooking oil and animal feed, after Brazil.
    “Now we are getting close to the U.S. soybean season, (in September) news like the trade war escalation and falling imports will have a bigger impact on prices,” said Pan Tiantian, analyst with Zheshang Futures.
    The most actively traded soybean futures on the Dalian Commodity Exchange (DCE) for January delivery DSAcv1 rallied 3.95 percent to close at 3,789 yuan ($555.93) per tonne on Wednesday, their biggest one-day gain since 2008.
    The most active DCE soymeal futures contract for January delivery DSMcv1 closed 2.43 percent higher at 3,289 yuan per tonne after hitting 3,302 yuan earlier in the afternoon, its highest since early April.

    More at: https://in.reuters.com/article/us-us...KBN1KT0V3?il=0
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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