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Thread: Boom. You can't out tariff us. Period. This Trump knows.

  1. #481


    Who is this? Why doesn't he want to MAGA and #TrustThePlan?
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3



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  3. #482
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post


    Who is this? Why doesn't he want to MAGA and #TrustThePlan?
    LOL- must be Zippy in disguise.
    There is no spoon.

  4. #483
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post


    Who is this? Why doesn't he want to MAGA and #TrustThePlan?

    Some senile old fool who is no longer relevant in the age of Trump or here on MAGA Forums.
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  5. #484
    In recent months, China has been desperate to inject more credit into its financial system and failing that, to at least give the impression it is doing that. Recall that last month the PBoC adjusted its definition of aggregate financing (or Total Social Financing) by including net financing through local government special bond issuance, which in turn took place just two months after it added asset-backed securities (ABS) and non-performing loan write-offs into this measure.
    Why did China revise its TSF yet again? Simple: the purpose was to "pump up" the credit numbers and telegraph to the market and consumers that Chinese credit is growing faster, and thus represent a stronger economy, than it is in reality. And indeed, the September jump in TSF was driven mainly by a faster local government bond issuance, while based on the previous definition, it fell to a weaker-than-expected RMB1,467bn from RMB1,518bn and below the RMB1,554 consensus, weighed upon by continued contraction of shadow banking financing and a decline in net corporate bond financing.
    Fast forward to today when overnight the PBOC reported its latest money and credit data, and even under the latest and broadest definition, October money and credit data surprised sharply on the downside, mainly due to the ripple effects of the initially over-zealous deleveraging programme and despite pressure by regulators on banks to help keep cash-starved companies afloat, pointing to further weakening in the economy in coming months.
    And while October is typically a slow month for Chinese credit, growth in key gauges such as total social financing and money supply fell to record lows, reinforcing views that policymakers will need to step up efforts to revive flagging investment.
    According to the PBOC, new RMB loans dropped in half to RMB697bn in October from RMB1,380bn in September, with new loans to the corporate sector tumbling to RMB150bn from RMB677bn in September, in which new medium- to long-term loans eased to RMB143bn from RMB380bn, and new short-term loans fell to -RMB113bn from an increase of RMB110bn. New loans to the household sector also eased, to RMB564bn from RMB754bn in September, and its long-term loan component was down to RMB373bn from RMB431bn. New loans to non-bank financial institutions were -RMB27bn from RMB60bn in September.

    Household loans accounted for 80.9% of total new loans in October, versus 54.7% in the preceding month.
    One reason for the sharp drop in new loan growth: Chinese banks have become wary of a fresh spike in bad loans after years of pressure from regulators to reduce riskier lending. Last Friday, Chinese bank shares tumbled on fears they will be saddled with more non-performing loans following an unprecedented regulatory directive to allocate one-third of new loans to private companies.
    In its financial stability report earlier this month, the central bank highlighted the sharp rise in household debt in recent years, noting it needed to be monitored, which is bizarre coming just as Beijing is hoping to flood the system with even more cheap credit. Analysts have warned the jump could undermine Beijing’s efforts to spur consumer spending.
    Outstanding short-term consumer loans rose 37.9 on-year in 2017 and the total household debt to GDP ratio was at 49 percent at the end of last year, the central bank said in the report.
    Meanwhile, the far broader aggregate financing index tumbled to RMB729BN from RMB2,168BN in September...

    ... mainly weighed on by a sharp fall in local government special bond (LGSB) financing (RMB87bn from RMB739bn in September) and continued shadow banking shrinkage.
    In fact, China’s outstanding total social financing (TSF) slowed to 10.2 percent from a year earlier, another all-time low suggesting the increased lending barely compensates for shrinking “shadow” loans.

    The amount of newly increased broad TSF (non seasonally adjusted) was the lowest since October 2014.
    As noted above, headline aggregate financing slumped to RMB729bn in October (Consensus: RMB1,300bn) from RMB2,168bn in September. Growth in outstanding aggregate financing slowed further by 0.4% points (pp) to 10.2% Y/Y in October. If central and local government bond financing is included, growth in the aggregate financing measure fell to 10.7% Y/Y to 11.2%.
    By category, new entrusted loans and trust loans combined were -RMB222bn in October from -RMB234bn in September, indicating that shadow banking activity continued to contract. Net corporate bond financing rose to RMB138bn from RMB49bn in September, but was still some way off the average October level in 2015-17 of RMB233bn. Net equity financing remained sluggish, at RMB18bn from RMB27bn in September (average October level: RMB62bn).

    One key reason for the decline was that local governments had maxed out their bond quotas after a rush of debt issuance in the third quarter, Capital Economics said. After a lengthy clampdown, Beijing has been pushing local governments to spend on infrastructure projects again as part of its growth boosting measures. China will release investment data on Wednesday along with industrial output and retail sales.
    Meanwhile, looking at traditional outstanding loan growth eased to 13.1% y-o-y from 13.2% in September (Figure 1), while money supply growth was also markedly weak, in further evidence that companies are reluctant to make fresh investments as U.S. tariffs on Chinese goods add to uncertainties about the demand outlook at home. Broad M2 money supply grew 8.0 percent in October from a year earlier - a record low, and far below the consensus estimates of 8.4%, edging up from September.

    Including central and local government bond issuance, growth of the augmented aggregate financing measure dropped to 10.7% y-o-y in October from 11.2% in September. Both posted the lowest growth on record.

    The weaker trend also suggested overall credit conditions in China tightened last month despite recent easing in monetary policy, including moves by the central bank to bring down market interest rates and four cuts in banks’ reserve requirements so far this year. Indeed, one likely explanation for the shockingly poor new credit numbers is that according to the PBoC’s Q3 monetary policy report last week, weighted average lending rates for general loans and mortgage loans rose to 6.19% pa and 5.72% in Q3, respectively, from 6.08% and 5.60% in Q2, although those for corporate bill financing fell. Rising financing costs signal further downside pressures on investment and property sales, and as a result, Nomura believes that the economy has not yet bottomed.
    In its China credit growth commentary, Bloomberg said that the "shockingly" weak new loans number, which was worse than any surveyed economist expected, "explains why policy makers have projected a sense of urgency lately to support growth. It suggests that the credit market is clogged as the government cracks down on shadow banking while lending to private firms has more or less frozen."
    Looking ahead, headwinds to growth remain, especially from weakening domestic demand, rising credit defaults, the cooling property market and escalating China-US trade tensions. Although headline activity numbers may have held relatively well in recent months (benefiting from a front-loading of exports and a significant easing of the anti-pollution campaign this winter), Nomura expects a more visible growth slowdown starting from the spring next year.


    The question, of course, is what happens if China's credit remains clogged up: that could be a major problem for China, which as discussed over the weekend, already has over 50 million vacant apartments. What is strange is that unlike in 2009, 2012 and 2015 Beijing has shown little appetite for housing-led stimulus - the type that would also bolster the broader emerging markets - as shown see in this chart comparing China's credit impulse and the number of cities with rising home prices.

    This means that infrastructure-led stimulus has far less bang for the buck, according to UBS. And if the new credit injections are unable to make their way into the economy, it's only a matter of time before home prices follow China's credit impulse deep in the red, potentially unleashing the biggest housing-led Chinese recession observed in over a generation, one which may or may not be accompanied by a working class insurrection.


    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...-lowest-record
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

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  6. #485
    A sales guy at a local raw metal distributor told me yesterday that their suppliers have been quickly raising prices, claiming tariffs, but as far as he was aware the tariffs haven't actually taken effect yet.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing."-Ron Paul

    "We have set them on the hobby-horse of an idea about the absorption of individuality by the symbolic unit of COLLECTIVISM. They have never yet and they never will have the sense to reflect that this hobby-horse is a manifest violation of the most important law of nature, which has established from the very creation of the world one unit unlike another and precisely for the purpose of instituting individuality."- A Quote From Some Old Book

  7. #486
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #487
    His excellency VP Pence (future MAGA POTUS?) is blazing big guns:



    Pence Vows No End to Tariffs Until China Bows

    By Reuters
    November 17, 2018
    PORT MORESBY—The United States will not back down from its trade dispute with the Chinese regime, and might even double its tariffs, unless Beijing bows to U.S. demands, Vice President Mike Pence said on Nov. 17.
    In a bluntly worded speech at an Asia Pacific Economic Co-operation (APEC) summit in Papua New Guinea, Pence threw down the gauntlet to China on trade and security in the region.
    “We have taken decisive action to address our imbalance with China,” Pence declared. “We put tariffs on $250 billion in Chinese goods, and we could more than double that number.”
    “The United States, though, will not change course until China changes its ways.”
    The stark warning will likely be unwelcome news to financial markets which had hoped for a thaw in the Sino-U.S. dispute and perhaps even some sort of deal at a G20 meeting later this month in Argentina.

  9. #488
    STILL haven't been out tariffed. And now a possible double down? Booya!



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  11. #489
    In a surprising show of public dissent within Beijing's power echelons, China’s former top trade negotiator slammed Beijing’s trade war tactics on Sunday, singling out the decision to impose tariffs on soybeans as ill-thought out. The comments by Long Yongtu - a former vice-minister with China’s foreign trade ministry who led the talks that led to China’s entry to the World Trade Organisation - and first delivered by the South China Morning Post, offered a rare glimpse of the country’s internal divisions on how to handle the dispute with the United States. He told the annual conference organized by China's Caixin media group that it was inappropriate to involve political considerations in trade talks.
    "If we have people who always talk about politics engaging in [trade] negotiations, we will never have a deal,” Long said, without naming anyone directly. “We don’t think deeply enough."


    Specifically, Long said it was unwise to impose import duties on soybeans in retaliation for US President Donald Trump’s decision to slap additional levies on Chinese imports, explaining that "agricultural products are very sensitive [in trade], and soybeans are very sensitive as well … We should have avoided targeting agricultural products because targeting agricultural products should be the last resort,” Long said. “But we have targeted agricultural products, or soybeans, right from the start."
    The agricultural states that produce the bulk of America’s soybeans make up Trump’s political heartland, but Long pointed out: “China is in dire need of soybean imports, so why did we pick out soybeans from the beginning? Is this deep thinking?”
    China had imposed a 25% import duty on soybeans in the first round of the tariff battle with the US. And while this greatly reduced US exports to the world’s biggest soybean importer, it has also led to sharp price increases in China.
    As a reminder, Beijing picked soybeans as one of the first US products to sanction partly because it was trying to inflict pain in the Republican Party’s heartland, however to Long this approach merely solidified Trump's resolve to punish China and perpetuated the trade war.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...eijings-unwise
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #490
    President Donald Trump is succeeding in making China pay most of the cost of his trade war.That’s the conclusion of a new paper from EconPol Europe, a network of researchers in the European Union. U.S. companies and consumers will only pay 4.5 percent more after the nation imposed 25 percent tariffs on $250 billion of Chinese goods, and the other 20.5 percent toll will fall on Chinese producers, according to authors Benedikt Zoller-Rydzek and Gabriel Felbermayr.

    According to Zoller-Rydzek and Felbermayr, the tariffs will do what Trump has longed for: They will cut American imports of affected Chinese goods by more than a third, and lower the bilateral trade deficit by 17 percent.
    The Trump administration selected products with the highest “price elasticity,” or high availability of substitutes, according to Zoller-Rydzek and Felbermayr. The Chinese products hit by Trump’s tariffs can mostly be replaced by other goods, forcing exporters to cut selling prices to keep buyers.
    “Through its strategic choice of Chinese products, the U.S. government was not only able to minimize the negative effects on U.S. consumers and firms, but also to create substantial net welfare gains in the U.S.,” the researchers wrote.
    The U.S. is due to raise duties on the largest $200 billion tranche of goods to 25 percent from 10 percent on Jan. 1. In retaliation, China has slapped tariffs on $110 billion in imports from the U.S. and effectively shut off its purchase of key American agricultural exports including soybeans.
    With the economic costs shifted to China, the U.S. levies will lead to a $18.4 billion net gain for the American government, the researchers wrote.

    More at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china...134813450.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #491
    Bloomberg reports that debt cross-guarantees by Chinese firms have left the world’s third-largest bond market prone to contagion risks, which has made it "all the tougher for officials to follow through on initiatives to sustain credit flows", i.e., the threat of growing threat of unexpected cross- defaults is what is keeping China's credit pipeline clogged up and has resulted in the collapse in new credit creation. The risk of cross-defaults is what also appears to be behind the recent official directive for banks to boost lending to private corporations.
    As Bloomberg explains, private companies have long had to be innovative in getting financing in Communist-run China, where state-owned enterprises have had preferential access to the banking system. Extending guarantees to each other helped businesses boost some lenders’ confidence enough to extend funding to them.
    While this was not a concern when times were good, now that China is going through a record run of debt defaults, these often opaque and hard-to-follow links pose the risk of "a daisy chain of distress" with price moves are reflecting that.
    Take, for example, tire-maker China Wanda Group which has seen the yield on its bonds due in 2021 soar almost threefold, from 8% to over 20% since end-September, thanks to having provided guarantees to iron-wire maker Shandong SNTON Group Co., one of whose units failed to repay a bank loan two months ago.

    “Large cross-guarantees could set off a chain effect that could quickly spread from one firm to another,” said Clifford Kurz, a credit analyst from S&P Global Ratings in Hong Kong, who probably rues the day he was tasked with figuring out which company is linked to which other company in cross-default obligations.
    And there's a lot of it: like pledged shares, where private companies and executives pledged corporate shareholdings as collateral for bank loans and which emerged as a major risk factor for China's financial system in late October when a flood of margin calls sparked a "liquidity crisis" and panic selling in Chinese stocks and prompted the regulators and local authorities to demand that banks ease restrictions on pledged shares, cross guarantees are a Chinese phenomenon less familiar in global markets. Last year, cross-guarantees in China amounted to nearly 4 trillion yuan ($575 billion), the China Securities Journal reported in October 2017.
    Which brings us back to China Wanda and Shandong SNTON, which are both based in the eastern province of Shandong, which has an economy of about $1 trillion and benefited from a dynamic private sector; however that growth now appears to have ground to a halt, and according to Kurz, slides in a number of corporate bonds across the province “may suggest that investors are seeking to avoid the risks posed by such cross-guarantees -- regardless of the underlying performance of such companies."
    And with a record pace of 83.4 billion yuan of defaults this year, both share pledging and cross guarantees have found themselves to topic of intense scrutiny

    "Cross-guarantees were not built up overnight," said Li Guomao, head of financing at Shandong SNTON, which has seen its own bonds tumble 30% since October thanks to a lawsuit over a guarantee to a subsidiary that failed to repay a loan. “It is unlikely to solve this problem soon.”
    There is another way that the province of Shandong has emerged as the potential epicenter for the next debt crisis: here, at least 20 private firms provide guarantees that account for at least 10% of their total net assets - a ratio surpassing all other regions, according to Lv Pin, an analyst from CITIC Securities Co.

    "Private firms in Shandong have been exposed to more risks as they are caught up in the cross-guarantee trap, with bonds being dumped on the secondary market," said Chen Su, bond portfolio manager at Qingdao Rural Commercial Bank Co.
    And, as noted above, local companies started suffering more financing difficulties as banks cut lending to this region earlier this year, Su said.
    What makes this particular problem especially vexing is that, like a loose thread, once one company with cross-guarantees finds itself unable to fund its debt obligations, a cross-guarantee cascade is sprung, and dozens of other firms may end up unable to either satisfy their "guaranteed" commitments to the original debtor, until - ultimately - they are unable repay their own creditors.
    Bloomberg notes that cross-guarantee troubles have been cropping up for a while:
    When a disclosure last year showed that Shandong Yuhuang Chemical Co. had guaranteed 1.35 billion yuan of obligations tied to Hongye Chemical Group Holdings Co., yields on Yuhuang’s 2020 dollar note shot up more than 2.30 percentage points in a week.
    For now, there hasn't been a default serious enough to drag down numerous firms at the same time, although that may soon change.

    More at: https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...as-next-crisis
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  14. #492
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    President Donald Trump is succeeding in making China pay most of the cost of his trade war.That’s the conclusion of a new paper from EconPol Europe, a network of researchers in the European Union. U.S. companies and consumers will only pay 4.5 percent more after the nation imposed 25 percent tariffs on $250 billion of Chinese goods, and the other 20.5 percent toll will fall on Chinese producers, according to authors Benedikt Zoller-Rydzek and Gabriel Felbermayr.

    According to Zoller-Rydzek and Felbermayr, the tariffs will do what Trump has longed for: They will cut American imports of affected Chinese goods by more than a third, and lower the bilateral trade deficit by 17 percent.
    The Trump administration selected products with the highest “price elasticity,” or high availability of substitutes, according to Zoller-Rydzek and Felbermayr. The Chinese products hit by Trump’s tariffs can mostly be replaced by other goods, forcing exporters to cut selling prices to keep buyers.
    “Through its strategic choice of Chinese products, the U.S. government was not only able to minimize the negative effects on U.S. consumers and firms, but also to create substantial net welfare gains in the U.S.,” the researchers wrote.
    The U.S. is due to raise duties on the largest $200 billion tranche of goods to 25 percent from 10 percent on Jan. 1. In retaliation, China has slapped tariffs on $110 billion in imports from the U.S. and effectively shut off its purchase of key American agricultural exports including soybeans.
    With the economic costs shifted to China, the U.S. levies will lead to a $18.4 billion net gain for the American government, the researchers wrote.

    More at: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/china...134813450.html
    Winning.

  15. #493
    "After buyout deadline, GM's workforce faces greater change"

    This is fine though because Trump is on the cusp of winning the Awesome Trade War any minute now.
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3

  16. #494
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    "After buyout deadline, GM's workforce faces greater change"

    This is fine though because Trump is on the cusp of winning the Awesome Trade War any minute now.
    This has nothing to do with the tariffs. They are trimming their "white collar" workforce. CEO Hackett is known for doing this. Ford is doing the same. Both are gearing up for a move to electric vehicles and are trimming the fat so their profitability is maintained during the transition. Quit swallowing this $#@! as if it has anything to do with Trump.

    It's all part of CEO Jim Hackett's fitness regimen for the Blue Oval, which aims to trim $25.5 billion in operating costs over the next few years at the same time the automaker spends $11 billion in part to restructure the workforce.

    "It's not that these companies don’t need as many people," said Mike Ramsey, an automotive analyst for research firm Gartner Inc. "It’s that they don’t need the people they have. The people they have can’t necessarily pivot to what they need."
    The results could show that there are some previously protected salaried jobs that might go extinct as the automotive industry barrels toward the mobility, electrification and automation of Auto 2.0. Said Ramsey: "Software development is beginning to automate what used to be done by (mechanical and technical) engineers."
    NOTHING to do with Trump or the tariffs. Period.
    Last edited by phill4paul; 11-20-2018 at 08:24 AM.

  17. #495
    Damn those Chinese. Who do they think they are supplying American business and manufacturers with low cost materials and supplies for their business and manufacturing needs. Raise the cost!
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  18. #496
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Damn those Chinese. Who do they think they are supplying American business and manufacturers with low cost materials and supplies for their business and manufacturing needs. Raise the cost!
    And stealing technology without repercussion, and flooding a market through government backing and destroying U.S. industries, etc. etc.

    $#@! your "I want my cheap global $#@!, and I want it now!" mentality AZJoe. That's what has destroyed middle-class America and created products that are harmful and inferior.

    China is buckling under the tariffs and I hope Trump doubles down. More jobs, higher wages, less income tax. MAGA!



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  20. #497
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    And stealing technology without repercussion, and flooding a market through government backing and destroying U.S. industries, etc. etc.

    $#@! your "I want my cheap global $#@!, and I want it now!" mentality AZJoe. That's what has destroyed middle-class America and created products that are harmful and inferior.

    China is buckling under the tariffs and I hope Trump doubles down. More jobs, higher wages, less income tax. MAGA!
    You don't want to save on food? A little extra lead never hurt no one...

    "Chinese chicken" has a whole new meaning, as the U.S. Department of Agriculture gave the green-light to four chicken processing plants in China, allowing chicken raised and slaughtered in the U.S. to be exported to China for processing, and then shipped back to the U.S. and sold on grocery shelves here.
    Pfizer Macht Frei!

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  21. #498
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    "After buyout deadline, GM's workforce faces greater change"

    This is fine though because Trump is on the cusp of winning the Awesome Trade War any minute now.
    But, but, but - this is the Greatest Economy Ever in the history of Ever, Anywhere!!!! Why would such an economy think it needs to resort to socialist protectionist tariffs to survive.
    Or why would the President of the Greatest Economy Ever" go publicly whining and wailing that the Federal Reserve is not lowering rates manipulating and distorting the markets enough to keep the "bubble" economy alive? Why would the "Greatest Economy Ever" be dependent on Federal Reserve artificial market distortions to survive?

    But at least the stock market bubble is still bubbling over - NOT!
    At least the real estate bubble is still bubbling up - NOT!
    At least the federal deficit is down and the budget balanced - NOT!
    At least the federal debt bubble is under control and not breaking new levels - NOT!
    At least the US consumer debt bubble is not breaking new astronomical levels - NOT!
    At least the Fed has cleared its balance sheets of all those $trillions toxic asset bailout purchases - NOT!
    At least its not so bad that our overlords aren't desperately resorting to isolationist trade wars and misguided Bernie Sanders style socialist protectionist tariffs and policies - NOT!
    But at least the Trump was able to take "the worst deal in history" - make it worse and then slap his brand name on it.

    No fake, artificially stimulated bubble economy here! Nope its the greatest economy ever!
    Last edited by AZJoe; 11-20-2018 at 08:54 AM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  22. #499
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  23. #500
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Dr. Ron Paul. "Stand up for what you believe in, even if you are standing alone." - Sophie Magdalena Scholl
    "War is the health of the State." - Randolph Bourne "Freedom is the answer. ... Now, what's the question?" - Ernie Hancock.

  24. #501
    The simplest way for China to out tariff the US is to stop loaning the US the money we use to purchase their goods, they have enormous power to dump USD fiat, dump US bonds, and cease financing the US deficit. It would cripple their exports, yes... however it would also effectively bankrupt the US and end the dollar hegemony as reserve currency. Every year they buy our bonds and trillions are added to our deficit it is like a bow being further pulled back with a financial dooms day tipped arrow upon us.

    IMO tariffs are an act of war. I feel the same way about sales tax and speeding tickets tho... so take it as you will.

    'We endorse the idea of voluntarism; self-responsibility: Family, friends, and churches to solve problems, rather than saying that some monolithic government is going to make you take care of yourself and be a better person. It's a preposterous notion: It never worked, it never will. The government can't make you a better person; it can't make you follow good habits.' - Ron Paul 1988

    Awareness is the Root of Liberation Revolution is Action upon Revelation

    'Resistance and Disobedience in Economic Activity is the Most Moral Human Action Possible' - SEK3

    Flectere si nequeo superos, Acheronta movebo.

    ...the familiar ritual of institutional self-absolution...
    ...for protecting them, by mock trial, from punishment...


  25. #502
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Smoot Hawley was passed when we had a trade surplus, it was an aggressive tariff when nobody was waging trade war against us and it wasn't responsible for the depression anyway, it was the scapegoat chosen by the banksters to distract from the Fed.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #503
    Quote Originally Posted by presence View Post
    The simplest way for China to out tariff the US is to stop loaning the US the money we use to purchase their goods, they have enormous power to dump USD fiat, dump US bonds, and cease financing the US deficit. It would cripple their exports, yes... however it would also effectively bankrupt the US and end the dollar hegemony as reserve currency. Every year they buy our bonds and trillions are added to our deficit it is like a bow being further pulled back with a financial dooms day tipped arrow upon us.

    IMO tariffs are an act of war. I feel the same way about sales tax and speeding tickets tho... so take it as you will.
    China started the trade war, we are just fighting back.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #504
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    Damn those Chinese. Who do they think they are supplying American business and manufacturers with low cost materials and supplies for their business and manufacturing needs. Raise the cost!
    China is trying to turn America into a welfare ghetto that produces nothing and is dependent on others for its needs, they were close to complete victory.

    Would you be so excited about having your lifestyle subsidized by our own government?
    How is it any more economically sound to accept welfare from a hostile foreign government?
    How is it any more morally sound to accept welfare from communists who use slave labor?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  29. #505
    Quote Originally Posted by AZJoe View Post
    In time of peace our government attempts to reduce our people to serfdom by subsidizing their lifestyle and making them dependent on it for their needs.

    In time of trade war the enemy does to us what our government does to us in time of peace.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #506
    The Trump administration announced U.S. withdrawal from the UPU as of Oct. 17, 2018. The objective was to arrive at competitive and fair global shipping rates. This move showed the Trump administration’s willingness to quit multilateral agreements judged unfavorable to U.S. interests. Although the UPU withdrawal process takes one year, U.S. deep discounts for Chinese packages ended immediately.

    Now China Post has introduced a new Express Mail Service. It raised the price of packages to the U.S. from $30 to $34 for the first 0.5 kilograms shipped.

    More at: https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/...ckage-shipping
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #507
    What encourages the Chinese to refuse to negotiate is the lamentations and cries from the crony corporatists and the US Chamber of Commerce. As long as they publically cry uncle and undermine negotiations, the Chinese will not give an inch. They see the weakness.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  32. #508
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    What encourages the Chinese to refuse to negotiate is the lamentations and cries from the crony corporatists and the US Chamber of Commerce. As long as they publically cry uncle and undermine negotiations, the Chinese will not give an inch. They see the weakness.
    All driven by the "I want my cheap $#@!, and I want it now" globalibertarians.

  33. #509
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    All driven by the "I want my cheap $#@!, and I want it now" globalibertarians.
    They claim to abhor taking government welfare.....................................Unless it comes from the Chinese government.

    You can't have free trade and a regulatory state but they want free trade before we get rid of the regulatory state, most of them are the same globalibertarians that want open borders even though we still have a welfare state too.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  34. #510
    Chinese pig farmers, already reeling from rising feed costs in Beijing's tariff fight with U.S. President Donald Trump, face a new blow from an outbreak of African swine fever that has sent an economic shockwave through the countryside.First detected in August, the disease has killed 1 million pigs, prompting authorities to restrict shipments of most of China's 700 million swine, even though nearly all are still healthy. That has disrupted supplies of pork, China's staple meat, to big cities while prices collapsed in areas with an oversupply of pigs that farmers are barred from shipping to other provinces.
    "I can only manage to break even at the current price," said a breeder on the outskirts of Shenyang, northeast of Beijing, where the first case was reported Aug. 3. She said she was rearing about 100 pigs and would give only her surname, Yan.
    "Unless we see a higher price for pigs, all my work this year would have gone for nothing," Yan said.


    On Friday, the first cases were reported in Beijing, the capital. Authorities said a total of 86 pigs at two farms in suburban Fangshan district died.
    Also Friday, Xiamen Airlines, a mid-size Chinese carrier, announced it was suspending use of pork in in-flight meals.
    The outbreak adds to a swarm of challenges for Chinese leaders as they grapple with Trump over Beijing's technology policy and try to shore up cooling growth in the world's second-largest economy.
    "Farmers have been losing money in pig-breeding provinces for the past couple of months and their confidence has been shattered," said Feng Yonghui, chief analyst of soozhu.com, a pork industry consultant.
    The cost of raising pigs spiked after Beijing retaliated for Trump's tariff hikes on Chinese goods by slapping 25 percent duties on imported U.S. soybeans used as animal feed.
    American farmers supplied about one-third of China's imports of 96 million tons of soybeans last year, while its own farms produce about 15 million tons a year.
    Soy prices have risen by as much as 4 and 5 percent per month since then in some areas.
    Importers are buying more soy from Brazil and Argentina, the other major exporters. Authorities have encouraged breeders to look at other protein sources such as canola.
    Since the first swine fever case in August, sick animals have been found in areas from Jilin province in the northeast to Yunnan on China's southern border with Vietnam.
    Authorities responded by banning shipments of all pigs from any province with one case.
    Authorities have found 73 outbreaks in domestic pigs and one infected wild boar in 47 cities in 20 provinces, according to an Agriculture Ministry official, Feng Zhongwu.


    It wasn't clear how the virus reached China but it was found to be genetically similar to versions in Russia, Poland and Georgia, said another official, Huang Bao. Huang said genetic testing showed the virus in the wild boar in Jilin province was unrelated to that in domesticated pigs.
    A big share of China's population still depends on farming even after the country became one of the biggest manufacturers. The share of the workforce employed in farming has fallen to 18 percent from more than 50 percent two decades ago, according to World Bank data, but farm households still account for 250 million people.
    The southwestern province of Sichuan, which accounts for some 10 percent of Chinese pork production, reported its first case last week. That extended swine fever's reach to all major Chinese pig breeding areas.

    With Sichuan included, restrictions on the movement of pigs now extend to some 90 percent of the Chinese industry's animals, according to Feng of soozhu.com.
    "The impact of the government policies is bigger than the epidemic itself," Feng said.

    In the northeast, the ban has led to a pork glut in markets, pushing down prices by 20 percent compared with three months ago, according to state media. Meanwhile, retail prices have jumped 30 percent in Chongqing, a city of 9 million people in the southwest.
    The outbreak could cause longer-term disruption if farmers respond by raising fewer pigs next year, leading to shortages and higher prices.
    Swine fever is "more troublesome" than earlier animal diseases, said Tan of Zero Power.
    "Farmers and consumers may panic and cause greater damage to the pork industry," he said.
    The government maintains stocks of frozen pork in case of shortages but has yet to say whether any will be released this year.
    Yan, the breeder in Shenyang, said she will skip buying piglets to rear this year but will keep sows to produce more.

    More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/swine-fev...--finance.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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