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Thread: The Carnivore Diet and Autoimmune Disorders

  1. #1

    The Carnivore Diet and Autoimmune Disorders

    Jordan Peterson discusses his carnivore diet with Joe Rogan


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  3. #2
    Humans are not naturally carnivores. We don't have the same teeth or digestive systems that carnivores do. (Carnivores also eat the organs of animals in addition to the muscles). Neither are we herbivores.
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  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Humans are not naturally carnivores. We don't have the same teeth or digestive systems that carnivores do. (Carnivores also eat the organs of animals in addition to the muscles). Neither are we herbivores.
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  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Humans are not naturally carnivores. We don't have the same teeth or digestive systems that carnivores do. (Carnivores also eat the organs of animals in addition to the muscles). Neither are we herbivores.

    Human digestion seems to be something we're continually figuring out. Sometimes it seems like Human diet is as diverse as Human ancestry and genetics are.

    Some people speculate that having different difficulties with digestion and related issues if they have some Neanderthal DNA.

    In other cases, I think radical diets like Keto for some people are not a normal diet but an attempt at reigning in hormones like insulin in their body that is becoming obese and diabetic.

    Admittedly, this is not good science, but it's hard to conduct a truly scientific approach with so many variables.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Human digestion seems to be something we're continually figuring out. Sometimes it seems like Human diet is as diverse as Human ancestry and genetics are.

    Some people speculate that having different difficulties with digestion and related issues if they have some Neanderthal DNA.

    In other cases, I think radical diets like Keto for some people are not a normal diet but an attempt at reigning in hormones like insulin in their body that is becoming obese and diabetic.

    Admittedly, this is not good science, but it's hard to conduct a truly scientific approach with so many variables.
    They didn't have carnivore teeth either (neanderthal on the right).



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  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They didn't have carnivore teeth either (neanderthal on the right).




    I think it's worth considering that for both humans or neanderthals, they were highly adapting and didn't rely on sharp teeth to kill.

    Another possibility is our history of adapting to a wide range of conditions is both a blessing and curse. Perhaps our ancestors settled in different regions long enough to adapt a wide range of climate conditions affecting the scarcity or abundance of different foods. Maybe we carry that history in us still and we just have to approach this with trial and error picking from whatever modern foods are available until we find something compatible.

    It could be that Jordan Peterson's distant ancestors were well adapted to a rugged northern climate where survival required hunting or perhaps fishing for food.

    https://www.theatlantic.com/science/...s-like/518949/


    By harvesting and sequencing that DNA, Weyrich has shown that there was no such thing as a typical Neanderthal diet. One individual from Spy cave in Belgium mostly ate meat like woolly rhinoceros and wild sheep, as well as some edible mushrooms. But two individuals who lived in El Sidrón cave in Spain seemed to be entirely vegetarian. The team couldn’t find any traces of meat in their diet, which consisted of mushrooms, pine nuts, tree bark, and moss. The Belgian Neanderthals hunted; the Spanish ones foraged.

    Neanderthals were our closest relatives, who lived in Europe before they went extinct 40,000 years ago. They left their DNA behind in people of Eurasian descent, and their bones in various European caves. By analyzing the chemical content of those bones, some scientists concluded that they were apex carnivores, much like polar bears or wolves. But other teams, who looked at the erosion patterns on Neanderthal teeth or plant matter stuck in their plaque, argued that they occasionally ate a lot of plants.

    Weyrich’s results matches all of these earlier ones, and portrays Neanderthals as adaptable and versatile. “Those that occupied southern regions with relatively warm climates, consumed different types of foods, including meat and vegetables,” says Luca Fiorenza from Monash University, who was not involved in the study. “But Neanderthals that lived in very harsh conditions, such as northern Europe, were forced to rely on the limited sources available—meat.”

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They didn't have carnivore teeth either (neanderthal on the right).



    Pseudo science.


    Not a Carnivore:



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  9. #8



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  11. #9
    I'm glad they found something that works for them. IMO, everyone's needs are different and if you're having health problems, your diet is the first thing you ought to look at.
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  12. #10
    Maybe the carnivore diet just suppresses the immune system overall?

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  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Should I call you Watson or Alexa?

    Just Troll will do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Ron Paul know some weird people too.



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  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They didn't have carnivore teeth either.
    Just opposable thumbs.
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  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Pseudo science.


    Not a Carnivore:



    http://sassafrasscience.com/are-gian...or-carnivores/

    Are Giant Pandas Herbivores Or Carnivores?

    So, knowing that the giant panda survives on a diet of bamboo shoots, one would think it is a herbivore. Quite the contrary, this black and white creature is officially classified as a carnivore.

    It has a digestive system that is not well suited to its mainly bamboo diet. Although the giant panda does have thicker walls in its esophagus to protect it from splinters, the intestines in the animal’s gut are far too short to digest bamboo the way a typical herbivore would.

    In other words, even though the panda has a diet like a herbivore, its insides more closely resemble a carnivore.

    This is why they must eat such a vast quantity of the plant to survive. And the reason why the giant panda is officially classified as a carnivore.

    http://www.latimes.com/science/scien...519-story.html

    How pandas may be eating their way to extinction

    A giant panda may look like a vegetarian on the outside, but it definitely looks like a carnivore on the inside.

    A genetic analysis of 121 samples of panda poop finds that the community of microbes living inside these animals' guts is optimized to digest meat. This is despite the fact that giant pandas have been eating bamboo for at least 7 million years, and that the plant has been the bears' sole food source for at least 2 million years.

    The findings, published Tuesday in the journal mBio, may not bode well for the endangered species. Only about 1,600 giant pandas remain in the forests of northern and central China.

    "The peculiar characteristics of its gut microbiota may put it at high risk of extinction," the study authors wrote.

    Scientists have come to appreciate that the microbes in our guts play an essential role in keeping us healthy. These bacteria help their hosts digest the foods they eat and extract -- or synthesize -- the needed nutrients.

    In theory, the microbes in the panda gut should be pretty busy. Pandas eat as much as 28 pounds of bamboo each day, a diet that requires as much as 14 hours of munching. Once the plant material reaches the panda intestine, digestive enzymes should get busy digesting all that fiber.

    In some ways, giant pandas have adapted to their unusual vegetarian eating habits. They have "powerful jaws and teeth" to break down copious amounts of cellulose, the study said.

    But then, it appears, evolution abandoned giant pandas. They did not develop a longer gut to give themselves more time to break down stubborn plant parts, as other herbivores did. Nor did they adjust their DNA to make different kinds of enzymes that would have helped them digest bamboo.

    So how do pandas cope? Only one possibility remained, the researchers wrote: "The giant panda appears to have no alternative but to rely on symbiotic gut microbes to adapt to its highly fibrous diet."

    So the researchers, from various universities and research centers in China, went looking for panda scat. They collected scores of fecal samples from 45 wild pandas -- 24 adults, 16 juveniles and five cubs that had not yet been weaned. Among these pandas, 33 provided samples during spring, summer and fall.

    After sequencing the DNA in the samples they collected, the researchers made some surprising discoveries. For starters, the components of the gut microbiome varied more in a single panda over the course of a year than they did between two different pandas.

    Also, the diversity of these microbial communities was "extremely low" compared with that of other mammals. Scientists believe that high diversity makes animals more resilient to changes in their environment. If the reverse is true as well, it could spell trouble for pandas and their "highly fragile lifestyle," the researchers wrote.

    But the biggest surprise was that the collection of microbes that did make their home in the panda gut were dominated by Escherichia/Shigella and Streptococcus bacteria. That meant that they looked a lot like the communities found in meat eaters, especially black bears, polar bears and spectacled bears.

    What was missing were Ruminococcaceae and Bacteroidetes bacteria, two groups that are good at degrading fiber. These microbes typically help herbivores like cattle, sheep, horses and rabbits digest their food.

    Pandas are notoriously poor breeders, but the new study provides another reason giant pandas are endangered in the wild. Without the anatomy, biology or microbiome to efficiently digest their only source of food, perhaps it's a wonder they've survived this long.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 07-14-2018 at 12:12 PM.
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  16. #14
    So basically another animal that evolved to $#@! up their diet?

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    So basically another animal that evolved to $#@! up their diet?
    Like pandas eating bamboo, humans can eat meat. It just isn't what we are primarily designed to consume (panda have to spend all day either eating or digesting their food).
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #16
    Typical scientific arrogance.
    "If we find an herbivore that defies our labels we will just call it a carnivore that eats plants"


    NOT A CARNIVORE:



    Meet the musk deer.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

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  20. #17
    http://www.strangebio.com/post/69045...except-some-of

    ALL* the fanged deer species

    *except some of these have multiple species therein
    Water Chevrotain (in the family Tragulidae, not cervidae, like true deer)
    Musk Deer (In the family Moschidae)
    Tufted Deer
    Muntjac
    Chinese Water Deer












    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Other than two teeth, their jaws and teeth are those of an herbavore. And so is their digestive tract.

    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Other than two teeth, their jaws and teeth are those of an herbavore. And so is their digestive tract.

    And human teeth are unique:



    Humans are omnivores, what you can eat and what you need to eat to maintain your health are what determines whether you are a carnivore or an herbivore or an omnivore.
    Humans can eat meat and they need to eat meat to be healthy, they also can eat plants and need to eat plants to be healthy, they are omnivores.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Like pandas eating bamboo, humans can eat meat. It just isn't what we are primarily designed to consume (panda have to spend all day either eating or digesting their food).
    Fair enough, though Jordan Peterson might an unusual case of genetics highly favoring meat or his family is just allergic to every non-meat food. I think he did say he was considering Mushrooms so it'll be interesting to see how that goes.

    I do think a lot of Humans have weird genetic legacies similar or different from what Peterson is going through. Maybe someday we could see a truly comprehensive and personalized Genetic Diet for everyone.

    For most people, meat should probably be under half of what is consumed. Otherwise, we're all sorting through what vegetables are best or if modern bread could be a major issue for a lot of people.

  24. #21



    Plus, the garden of Eden. We are herbivores that along the way developed a taste for dead animal flesh.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

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  25. #22
    If we were meat eaters, we wouldn't have eaten that Apple.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post


    Her argument seems flawed when even she says Primates eat 'Mostly' Plant based foods. She mentions the occasional snack on insects, but not so much that primates will hunt and eat meat. Strangely, this most often turns out to be Primates eating other Primates. She avoids the obvious adaptive issue here of Primates grasping things or doing a bludgeoning attack as well as biting.

    She also mentions Chimps which can actually be extremely vicious. Chimps as tree dwellers like to fling animals toward to the ground to be crippled.





    Baboons teeth help them to tear meat 'Like Humans'




    To be fair, I think the Meat / Protein diet for many Primates like Chimps overall is very low, but it's still there as they do switch from scavenging berries to killing. If a person was making a claim that Humans are omnivores, but generally should consume a minimal amount of flesh, I would find that claim reasonable. I think something like a Cobb Salad for example would be a reasonable human meal or perhaps scrambled Eggs with Mushroomes, Spinach, and Peppers.

    Also from a bit I read on digestion, humans take in most meat just fine, but any of the meat not well absorbed has a Toxicity to it, so it should be minimal. I'd have to read more to see if there is a major difference between Flesh, Eggs, or Dairy.

  27. #24
    We are not carnivores neither herbivores. We human are omnivorous. We have teeth to eat flesh, just look at your teeth, there's sharp beside your front teeth. Or maybe I am the only one?



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