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Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Umm, is your brain on Jimmy Wales' server?
And here I was congratulating you for putting yourself out there.
Ahh well. We work with what we have.
Have you ever asked yourself, Ender, to what degree George Saxe-Coburg-Gotha had the "ability to levy taxes and regulate commerce" in the American colonies?
ID. 10. t
The Central government under the Articles had no power to tax. Only the separate states could tax.
Only the states, not Congress, had the authority to impose taxes and raise revenue. Accordingly, Congress had to request funds from the separate states.
Article VIII: these funds “shall be supplied by the several States in proportion to the value of all land within each State.”

How that money was raised, within each state, was up to the state legislatures.
There is no spoon.
Mine dude, you're just, like, pasting words. Words of junk that, like, I already know and junk.
You are not obligated to be the reproductive organ of dry congloterations of words. They can't reproduce themselves across the internet, it's true. And that's sad for them. But that doesn't mean you have to take on the task of doing it for them. That does not have to be your life. You can say No.
Where?
I was just trying to have a real conversation. Basically, I can respect your point of view, I just consider it to be (slightly) misinformed. Here's an interesting exercise:
Find the typical tax levy for a Massachusetts farmer in 1760. Then find the typical tax levy for that same farmer in 1787.
You will not do this. But, hazard a guess. What do you think you would find, Ender?
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Maybe you should redevelop the Know-Nothings.
The refugees seeking haven in America were poor and disease-ridden. They threatened to take jobs away from Americans and strain welfare budgets. They practiced an alien religion and pledged allegiance to a foreign leader. They were bringing with them crime. They were accused of being rapists.
And, worst of all, these undesirables were Irish.
The discrimination faced by the famine refugees was not subtle or insidious. It was right there in black and white, in newspaper classified advertisements that blared “No Irish Need Apply.”
The image of the simian Irishman, imported from Victorian England, was given new life by the pens of illustrators such as Thomas Nast that dripped with prejudice as they sketched Celtic ape-men with sloping foreheads and monstrous appearances.
In 1849, a clandestine fraternal society of native-born Protestant men called the Order of the Star Spangled Banner formed in New York. Bound by sacred oaths and secret passwords, its members wanted a return to the America they once knew, a land of “Temperance, Liberty and Protestantism.” Similar secret societies with menacing names like the Black Snakes and Rough and Readies sprouted across the country.
Within a few years, these societies coalesced around the anti-Catholic, anti-immigrant American Party, whose members were called the “Know-Nothings” because they claimed to “know nothing” when questioned about their politics.
Party members vowed to elect only native-born citizens—but only if they weren’t Roman Catholic. “Know-Nothings believed that Protestantism defined American society. From this flowed their fundamental belief that Catholicism was incompatible with basic American values,” writes Jay P. Dolan in “The Irish Americans: A History.”
There is no spoon.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Pfizer Macht Frei!
Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer. Community Standards Enforcer.
Quiz: Test Your "Income" Tax IQ!
Short Income Tax Video
The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes
The Federalist Papers, No. 15:
Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.
Replace the population of Japan with Mexicans. Does Japan stay the same? Obviously not, it would look more like Mexico. Increase the percentage of Mexicans in the U.S. Does the U.S. stay the same? Obviously not, it will look more like Mexico. Should libertarians want the U.S. to become more like Mexico? Why the hell would any sane person want that? Also, how does letting in millions of Democrat voters help the libertarian movement? Do you think Democrats are for open borders because they care about liberty!?
Amash>Trump
ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ
"Patriotism should come from loving thy neighbor, not from worshiping graven images" - Ironman77
"ideas have the potential of being more powerful than any army....The concept of personal sovereignty was pulled screaming from the ether into this reality by the force of men believing in a self evident truth, that men are meant to be free." - The Northbreather
"Trump is the security blanket of aggrieved white men aged 18-60." - Pinoy
Don't offer common sense to anarchists, it plays no part in their decision making when it comes to immigration. Aside from that, let us take a look at the clear thinking of one of our forefathers stated during our nations first rule on naturalization.
Mr. BURKE thought it of importance to fill the country with useful men, such as farmers, mechanics, and manufacturers, and, therefore, would hold out every encouragement to them to emigrate to America. This class he would receive on liberal terms; and he was satisfied there would be room enough for them, and for their posterity, for five hundred years to come. There was another class of men, whom he did not think useful, and he did not care what impediments were thrown in their way; such as your European merchants, and factors of merchants, who come with a view of remaining so long as will enable them to acquire a fortune, and then they will leave the country, and carry off all their property with them. These people injure us more than they do us good, and, except in this last sentiment, I can compare them to nothing but leeches. They stick to us until they get their fill of our best blood, and then they fall off and leave us. I look upon the privilege of an American citizen to be an honorable one, and it ought not to be thrown away upon such people. There is another class also that I would interdict, that is, the convicts and criminals which they pour out of British jails. I wish sincerely some mode could be adopted to prevent the importation of such; but that, perhaps, is not in our power; the introduction of them ought to be considered as a high misdemeanor. ____RULE OF NATURALIZATION, FEB. 3RD, 1790
JWK
There is no better way to weaken, destroy and subjugate a prosperous and freedom loving country than by importing the world’s poverty stricken populations into that country and making the country’s existing citizens tax-slaves to support the economic needs of such an invasion.
I see the social democrats mantra has once again found its way into a discussion about illegal immigration.
Just for the record, Emma Lazarus, who wrote the words which appears on the Statute of Liberty was a well-known socialist, and the “poem” which she wrote was suggested to be used to raise funds to build the statue’s pedestal.
Additionally, immigrants coming to America who passed the statute on their way to Elis Island were not granted entry into the United States for a number of reasons. One reason to be rejected was the likelihood of becoming a ward of the state and a public charge.
JWK
Our civil rights ought not be based upon the perverted desires of sexual deviants who now impinge upon the inalienable right of mankind being free to mutually agree in their contracts and associations.
And, just for the record, socialist minister Francis J. Bellamy wrote the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1890s in an effort to paper over the post-Civil War divisions; to accompany it, he devised the "Bellamy Salute": "raise your right hand, flip your palm down, point it toward the flag in a salute and recite the words."
Fifty years later, Americans switched to holding their hands over their hearts, a gesture that was formally legislated in the US Flag Code in 1942, as Americans were struck with the hipster's horror of having their OG style ripped off by crass newcomers (Hitler, Mussolini, et al).
There is no spoon.
Well great. Just to be clear:
You are claiming the American Revolution was a case of a revolution which decreased government.
[You are also claiming the War of Yankee Aggression was such a case, but by this you (presumably; filling in lots of gaps here) are leaving the realm of the historical, in which the 'revolution' (I'd contest this categorization) failed, and the result was significantly more government. I will grant you that in Turtledove novels, the WoYA may have resulted in less government, depending on the novel.]
This claim of yours for the Am Rev appears to amount to: "On paper, things seem to me as if they were super-ideal, quasi-anarchist for a couple years, until the revolutionaries got around to setting up a real government, at which point I will agree with you, Helmuth: they were even worse and more tyrannical than the British had been." Is that about it? And furthermore, you concede that this very brief moment of on-paper awesomeness only even applied to one particular division/level of the government. And that all the rest of the government were just as trash as ever, probably more-so actually, compared to before the Revolution.
OK, so that's a position. And I guess it makes sense. In a way. But can you see how weak that is? Let's say you were talking about some other revolution:
"The Ultra-Vedic Revolution of India shrunk the government. Now it's true real overall tax rates rose. It's true the overall number of government officials skyrocketed. However the Posits of Foundation clearly state that the Krishnic branch of government shall only collect tax via the Shivic limbs and never ever from the people directly, we promise. And it was only the Shiva limbs and also the Ganesh twigs of the government that got bigger and more intrusive, not the Krishnic branch. And yes, the Krishnic branch it too became horrible and tyrannical almost immediately, but that was after the Posits of Foundation were replaced by the Bloodtruce of Deva, which was totally different and not True vedism -- it was actually the opposite and a betrayal of the Vedic way!"
'Twould seem a bit... esoteric and technical, a bit like special pleading, yes? The bottom line is : Freer, yea or nay?
Also, great, Ender, on the Pledge!
Thing is, if you're edgy enough to reject The Pledge of Allegiance, surely you can imagine how someone might be edgy enough to reject some lame Non-American lesbian's transparently self-serving, drug-addled screed that somehow sneaked on (years later) to the Statue of Liberty. Eh?
Or can you truly not imagine anyone edgier than yourself?
Have some imagination!
Last edited by H_H; 07-04-2018 at 04:58 PM.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
LOL No, just you and a handful of your comrades. Nice try, chief!
(edit): By the way, I just got a PM and a thank you from a real RPF member. That RPF member was at odds with one of the paid shills on here. I pointed out the paid shill to the RPF member (in a + rep). The RPF member was glad to learn he was replying to a known shill.
Last edited by NorthCarolinaLiberty; 07-09-2018 at 01:18 PM.
Disrupt, Deny, Deflate. Read the RPF trolls' playbook here (post #3): http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...eptive-members
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