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Thread: Socialism vs. Trumpism --- Where Are The Libertarians?

  1. #1

    Socialism vs. Trumpism --- Where Are The Libertarians?

    Socialism vs. Trumpism --- Where Are The Libertarians?



    The U.S. government continues to steamroll over the freedom of American citizens. Under the Trump Administration, it's done in a less PC-manner, but the walls continue to close in on liberty in America. Meanwhile Socialists see this as an opportunity to put the final nail in the American Dream coffin. Will the ideas of Liberty rise up to oppose this tag team?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2
    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically." - Ron Paul
    Chris

    "Government ... does not exist of necessity, but rather by virtue of a tragic, almost comical combination of klutzy, opportunistic terrorism against sitting ducks whom it pretends to shelter, plus our childish phobia of responsibility, praying to be exempted from the hard reality of life on life's terms." Wolf DeVoon

    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically."Ron Paul

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by CCTelander View Post
    "...Make America Great Again. I'm interested in making American FREE again. Then the greatness will come automatically." - Ron Paul
    This man is wise beyond his years.

  5. #4
    Trump is the least of all possible goods, Ron needs to give him more credit along with the constructive criticism, perhaps he just is unaware of many of the good things Trump is doing.

    Ron is also wrong about tariffs and trade, not only are defensive tariffs needed but he points out our money printing (rightly so) while ignoring all the ways other countries leech off of us. (particularly by suckering us into paying for their defense)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #5
    The same place we've been all along, hunkered down in the trenches while the artillery barrages of apathy, ignorance, statism and petty power fly over our heads.

    Ron is wrong about only one thing...

    Freedom is NOT popular.

  7. #6
    Trumpism has become a great acid test for those who wish to claim the libertarian label.

    He is beyond a doubt the most libertarian President in any of our lifetimes, assuming we don't have anyone around who saw Coolidge.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  8. #7
    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Trumpism has become a great acid test for those who wish to claim the libertarian label.
    Still peddling the partisan divide-and-conquer spam, I see.

    If we aren't fascist we're communist? Is that your message, Herr Himmler? After all, the fascists do look libertarian next to the communists. So do tell us more about how every realistic libertarian should roll over on 90% of our ideals and embrace your brand of fascism.

    Eisenhower was light years more libertarian than Trump. Ford was more libertarian than Trump. Hell, arguably both Kennedy and James Earl Carter were more libertarian than Trump!
    Last edited by acptulsa; 07-01-2018 at 10:40 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ron is wrong...
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Amash is wrong...



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Trumpism has become a great acid test for those who wish to claim the libertarian label.

    He is beyond a doubt the most libertarian President in any of our lifetimes, assuming we don't have anyone around who saw Coolidge.
    Actually Harding was more Libertarian than Coolidge- but he has been pushed down the memory hole so no one remembers him at all.

    And, no, I wasn't around then.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by RonZeplin View Post
    Pretty much what I've been saying since I joined the forum.
    There is no spoon.

  13. #11
    I’m not really into the labels because most of the most ardent voices calling themselves libertarian are not so much.

    After 18 months in office, the major accomplishments of this Administration have been good ones—especially to the unborn. The Right to Life is the first of the inalienable rights, after all
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by acptulsa View Post
    Still peddling the partisan divide-and-conquer spam, I see.

    If we aren't fascist we're communist? Is that your message, Herr Himmler? After all, the fascists do look libertarian next to the communists. So do tell us more about how every realistic libertarian should roll over on 90% of our ideals and embrace your brand of fascism.

    Eisenhower was light years more libertarian than Trump. Ford was more libertarian than Trump. Hell, arguably both Kennedy and James Earl Carter were more libertarian than Trump!
    100% of libertarian beliefs have to be ignored for you to vote for Trump.
    “Maybe I forgot to mention something to you: I don’t believe in queens. You think freedom is something you can give and take on a whim. But to your people, freedom is as essential as air. And without it, there is no life. There is only darkness.” -Zaheer

    "A man chooses. A slave obeys."-Andrew Ryan

    "There are three things the parasite hates: free markets, free will, and free men."-Andrew Ryan

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by PierzStyx View Post
    100% of libertarian beliefs have to be ignored for you to vote for Trump.
    So you voted for Hillary the Death Peddler and Money Wh*re who sold favors to enemies. Way to go.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    So you voted for Hillary the Death Peddler and Money Wh*re who sold favors to enemies. Way to go.
    How about "neither". That's the way to go.
    There is no spoon.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Trumpism has become a great acid test for those who wish to claim the libertarian label.

    He is beyond a doubt the most libertarian President in any of our lifetimes, assuming we don't have anyone around who saw Coolidge.
    He's funny AF but I wouldn't say he's an acid test for libertarianism at all. I'd call him an ideological cluster$#@! more than any one thing. Perhaps "populist" is more accurate, but I don't think so.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I’m not really into the labels because most of the most ardent voices calling themselves libertarian are not so much.

    After 18 months in office, the major accomplishments of this Administration have been good ones—especially to the unborn. The Right to Life is the first of the inalienable rights, after all
    Um, the whole recognizing Jerusalem as the "capitol" of Israel was a really, really bad major "accomplishment".
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Um, the whole recognizing Jerusalem as the "capitol" of Israel was a really, really bad major "accomplishment".
    No, it was a meaningless recognition of reality and compliance with the wishes of the host nation.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    No, it was a meaningless recognition of reality and compliance with the wishes of the host nation.
    SMFH. I would explain that the actual capital of "Israel" is Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in reality has long been a territory divided among Jews, Arabs, and Muslims, (the al-Aqsa mosque, Church of the Holy Sepulchure, and many other holy sites are there) but it would be like talking to a brick wall.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    SMFH. I would explain that the actual capital of "Israel" is Tel Aviv and Jerusalem in reality has long been a territory divided among Jews, Arabs, and Muslims, (the al-Aqsa mosque, Church of the Holy Sepulchure, and many other holy sites are there) but it would be like talking to a brick wall.
    I could explain that a country's capital is any place it chooses in the territory it controls but it would be like trying to teach a pig to sing.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20

    Cool Rebooting the initial post...

    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Cool video. Woodrow Wilson is not Eugene Debs, but most likely Bernie was cheated out of the nomination
    by Hillary's people. If he ceases to be a Socialist as in totally, he can run again as a Democrat. I cannot fault
    Doctor Ron Paul for blurring the fine line between NEW DEAL LIBERALISM and Socialism Proper. We know that
    Mitt Romney was pitiless and thorough in his quest for the nomination in 2012, yet chose not to run in 2016.
    Donald Trump with an orange level of ooze slithered into a political gap most Centrist in origin, and tilted us
    to the alt-neo-Nazi but not Franco fascist right. IKE's moderate normalcy has mainly departed from the GOP.
    Last edited by Aratus; 07-01-2018 at 10:03 PM. Reason: I'm looking at folks talking up red or blue waves... but not purple ones!

  24. #21
    Oh forget poor sincere dour Calvin Coolidge, we actually yearn for an amiable and likable guy
    very much like a latterday reincarnation of Warren G. Harding, who was not given to crusading.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    SMFH. I would explain that the actual capital of "Israel" is Tel Aviv
    No it isn't and it's not your call to make unless you are an Israeli.

    Whatever kind of thinking leads to telling a sovereign nation how and where it may organize its own government is bad thinking.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    He's funny AF but I wouldn't say he's an acid test for libertarianism at all. I'd call him an ideological cluster$#@! more than any one thing. Perhaps "populist" is more accurate, but I don't think so.
    He's scored major victories in key libertarian priority areas: lower taxes, disentangling foreign commitments, deregulation, restoring the rule of law.

    Ron Paul himself could achieve no better, and perhaps could not even achieve this much.

    Trump takes a hell of a lot of policy direction from Rand and they are key allies.

    People asking for more than this to have been done by this time, given the forces in opposition, are wildly unrealistic.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    No it isn't and it's not your call to make unless you are an Israeli.

    Whatever kind of thinking leads to telling a sovereign nation how and where it may organize its own government is bad thinking.
    Meh. Israel only has partial political control of Jerusalem. It has never fully held control of it. Whatever you or I or Trump say will not make Jerusalem the capital of the political State of Israel.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israel
    Israel's economic and technological center is Tel Aviv,[15] while its seat of government and proclaimed capital is Jerusalem, although the state's sovereignty over Jerusalem has only partial recognition.[16][17][18][19][fn 2]
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Meh. Israel only has partial political control of Jerusalem. It has never fully held control of it. Whatever you or I or Trump say will not make Jerusalem the capital of the political State of Israel.
    What part of it's not your call to make and isn't any of your business do you not understand?
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    What part of it's not your call to make and isn't any of your business do you not understand?
    I understood it all. Since it's a discussion board, I thought I'd flesh a simple answer into more of a discussion-type answer.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12



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