Cognitive Dissonance (Some *food* for thought)

[lilymc]

Well, the weird thing is my video was also sourced from The Mayo Clinic while your source from The Mayo Clinic says the diet can work if well planned and to see a context that isn't linked. I'm curious if perhaps their Context includes supplements?

I bring that up not necessarily to challenge your view, but as an example of how much grey area there is for individuals to sift through. I guess for me, it's not quite settled and there are many anecdotal stories going either way, but I can consider revisiting the issue and researching it more. I did see another YouTube video of a Vegan who claimed to have experienced nutrition deficiency mostly related to B12.

I will say that I do think Americans probably way over consume meat and I consider it a good idea to cut back. It would be nice if reduced meat consumption could lead to less frantic meat processing trying to shove and many animals as possible through some crazy throat slicer like with the chickens. Maybe that wouldn't be as necessary if meat consumption and production could slow down at least. I think meat production at the scale we have is hard on the environment and probably really hard on the employees who have to oversee all this.

Otherwise, I also have to meal plan as a Truck Driver which is another added challenge. I work locally at the moment, but some days I'm so busy I can hardly get away from the truck.

I think the reason they said "well planned" is because not all vegan diets are the same. Some vegans only do it for ethical (not health) reasons, and there are many things that are accidentally vegan (like Oreos) which could be part of a vegan diet, but obviously wouldn't be healthy. So I think they mean well-balanced, healthy and conscientious... as opposed to eating only one thing, or vegan junk food.

But yes, I agree that it would be great if people at least cut back. I definitely think that it is happening, slowly but surely. And yeah, very good point about the employees in those slaughterhouses. In fact I read that many of them develop psychological problems, like PTSD... And that line of the work has an extremely high turnover rate.

[VIDEODROME]

I think the reason they said "well planned" is because not all vegan diets are the same. Some vegans only do it for ethical (not health) reasons, and there are many things that are accidentally vegan (like Oreos) which could be part of a vegan diet, but obviously wouldn't be healthy. So I think they mean well-balanced, healthy and conscientious... as opposed to eating only one thing, or vegan junk food.

Hmm.... Or even Pre-Packaged Store Veggie Products like Rice Cakes with whatever added ingredients to make it not taste quite like packing material? Or do Rice Cakes have low Nutrition with a quick Carb load? Maybe some odd store bought wonder products even pitched at Vegans are related to any anecdotal stories of nutrition problems?

Also on the Non-Meat side of the grocery aisle is the Gluten issue many people keep debating. Some people feel left confused over the issue or unsure what to even do with Bread or Pasta. This is a strong starting point for people to next learn about Low Carb or even Ketogenic Diets often strongly based on protein and meat. Oh I'll just have a Bunless Low Carb Burger. It's a satisfying food that is Low Glycemic Index.

Just saying that influence is out there and perhaps even influenced me.

[CaptUSA]

Pigs are not only as or more intelligent than dogs, but they have personalities just like dogs do. Don't twist my words, I never said that pigs were people, or that any other animals are people, but it is absurd and completely blind to act as if they are not sentient beings who feel love, joy, pain, suffering, fear, boredom, so many things that you give them zero credit for.

Um, no. By definition, it's impossible for pigs to have personalities. Maybe they could have Pigalities? Animalalities?? I don't know. But definitely not PERSONalities! Now, you could say they have characters, or individual dispositions, but you didn't. You chose "personalities". No one twisted your words.

If you were really concerned about cognitive dissonance, maybe you would ask the question of why you seem to be subconsciously projecting human qualities onto animals because you find them cute & are amused by their antics.

[Swordsmyth]

Is promoting vegetarianism/veganism a form of colonialism? (article)

[lilymc]

Um, no. By definition, it's impossible for pigs to have personalities. Maybe they could have Pigalities? Animalalities?? I don't know. But definitely not PERSONalities! Now, you could say they have characters, or individual dispositions, but you didn't. You chose "personalities". No one twisted your words.

If you were really concerned about cognitive dissonance, maybe you would ask the question of why you seem to be subconsciously projecting human qualities onto animals because you find them cute & are amused by their antics.

The word has more than one meaning, according to any dictionary. Of course I meant characters or individual dispositions, or certain characteristics that distinguish one individual from another. And since that is the case (and demonstrably so) there's nothing wrong with using the word personalities in that sense.

And here's where you're very wrong. Your statement that I'm projecting "human qualities" onto animals comes with the assumption that those qualities are strictly human. No. Humans are not the center of the universe. All qualities come from God, such as intelligence, love, joy, etc. Those are not "human qualities" they are just qualities that humans possess, but not only humans. And if you don't believe that, it's easy to prove. I could show you tons and tons of video clips of animals who are clearly experiencing things like happiness, joy, curiosity, playfulness, boredom, love and affection, fear, suffering, numerous things.

I'm actually amazed that anyone would even argue that, when it is so easily proved. You'd have to be completely blind to not see that. But then again, maybe many people, namely meat eaters, don't even care to look at animals as they truly are, with the exception of dogs and cats. To them farm animals are nothing but food, not sentient beings, individuals who want to live and enjoy life just like you and me.

[timosman]

The word has more than one meaning, according to any dictionary. Of course I meant characters or individual dispositions, or certain characteristics that distinguish one individual from another. And since that is the case (and demonstrably so) there's nothing wrong with using the word personalities in that sense.

And here's where you're very wrong. Your statement that I'm projecting "human qualities" onto animals comes with the assumption that those qualities are strictly human. No. Humans are not the center of the universe. All qualities come from God, such as intelligence, love, joy, etc. Those are not "human qualities" they are just qualities that humans possess, but not only humans. And if you don't believe that, it's easy to prove. I could show you tons and tons of video clips of animals who are clearly experiencing things like happiness, joy, curiosity, playfulness, boredom, love and affection, fear, suffering, numerous things.

I'm actually amazed that anyone would even argue that, when it is so easily proved. You'd have to be completely blind to not see that. But then again, maybe many people, namely meat eaters, don't even care to look at animals as they truly are, with the exception of dogs and cats. To them farm animals are nothing but food, not sentient beings, individuals who want to live and enjoy life just like you and me.

Can animals troll as hard as you can?

[otherone]

And here's where you're very wrong. Your statement that I'm projecting "human qualities" onto animals comes with the assumption that those qualities are strictly human. No. Humans are not the center of the universe. All qualities come from God, such as intelligence, love, joy, etc. Those are not "human qualities" they are just qualities that humans possess, but not only humans. And if you don't believe that, it's easy to prove. I could show you tons and tons of video clips of animals who are clearly experiencing things like happiness, joy, curiosity, playfulness, boredom, love and affection, fear, suffering, numerous things.

Awwww...little fella wants a belly rub.

[lilymc]

Awwww...little fella wants a belly rub.

No thanks.

[Anti Federalist]

Oh, and I'd like to clear something else up as well.

Cognitive dissonance is NOT simply the holding of two dissimilar beliefs that are in contradiction to each other. That's confusion.

Nor is it holding two dissimilar beliefs that are contradictory, and holding both to be true at the same time. That's DoubleThink.

No, cognitive dissonance is the mental pain that comes from trying to hold two dissimilar beliefs that are in contradiction to each other, while trying convince oneself that both are true.

In other words, the mental anguish that Winston Smith was trying to overcome, by believing that Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia yet he knew that it had been at war with Eurasia, and that 2+2=4 or 2+2=5, if the party said it did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

[lilymc]

Oh, and I'd like to clear something else up as well.

Cognitive dissonance is NOT simply the holding of two dissimilar beliefs that are in contradiction to each other. That's confusion.

Nor is it holding two dissimilar beliefs that are contradictory, and holding both to be true at the same time. That's DoubleThink.

No, cognitive dissonance is the mental pain that comes from trying to hold to dissimilar beliefs that are in contradiction to each other, while trying convince oneself that both are true.

In other words, the mental anguish that Winston Smith was trying to overcome, by believing that Oceania had always been at war with Eastasia yet he knew that it had been at war with Eurasia, and that 2+2=4 or 2+2=5, if the party said it did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance

True, so maybe a better word would have been something like "compartmentalization" or DoubleThink. But there are meat eaters who fall into the category you mentioned... And that's actually a good thing, because that discomfort is usually what causes them to re-think what they're doing. It was that way for me.

[Anti Federalist]

True, so maybe a better word would have been something like "compartmentalization" or DoubleThink. But there are meat eaters who fall into the category you mentioned... And that's actually a good thing, because that discomfort is usually what causes them to re-think what they're doing. It was that way for me.

And of course, that's fine, whatever blows your skirt up.

The issue is this: you have acclimated yourself to the jingle jangling migraine of cognitive dissonance when you try to rationalize that people who agree with you will not resort to government force and violence to bring meat eating refuseniks like me into compliance in the not too distant future.

[lilymc]

And of course, that's fine, whatever blows your skirt up.

The issue is this: you have acclimated yourself to the jingle jangling migraine of cognitive dissonance when you try to rationalize that people who agree with you will not resort to government force and violence to bring meat eating refuseniks like me into compliance in the not too distant future.

No, it's not, because I haven't seen that. What I do see from vegans who have an activist mindset is the push to change public opinion… Through videos, documentaries, social media, public speaking, going out on the street and handing out booklets, also creative types of activism like bringing laptops to a public place and showing people slaughterhouse footage, or like this guy, going on a year long vow of silence to raise awareness. And of course marches, protests and stuff like that.

I honestly think that even the most hard-core activist vegans are wise enough to understand that forcing people to change doesn't work. I'm sure there are groups (like PETA) trying to influence legislators to make things better for the animals through legislation...But I haven't seen anyone trying to make eating meat illegal. So let's not go into paranoid territory.

Things are definitely changing, because veganism is growing like crazy all around the world… So there will be changes because of good ol supply and demand, and changing public opinion… Not because of forceful laws.

[Occam's Banana]

Awwww...little fella wants a belly thorax rub.

Fixed - and reported for anthropocentrism.

[H_H]

* Says she is only interested in discussing cognitive dissonance; debating other topics "I'm not going to get into."

* Proceeds to use thread almost exclusively to debate veganism and proper animal relations, mostly ignoring posters discussing cognitive dissonance.

An example of..... cognitive dissonance?

[Danke]

* Says she is only interested in discussing cognitive dissonance; debating other topics "I'm not going to get into."

* Proceeds to use thread almost exclusively to debate veganism and proper animal relations, mostly ignoring posters discussing cognitive dissonance.

An example of..... cognitive dissonance?

[Anti Federalist]

Things are definitely changing, because veganism is growing like crazy all around the world… So there will be changes because of good ol supply and demand, and changing public opinion… Not because of forceful laws.

The forceful laws will come after the nudging from "public opinion".

Thus it is always so.