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Thread: Say what you want, Rand gets ish done.

  1. #1

    Say what you want, Rand gets ish done.

    I'm a simple libertarian, its not a zero sum game for me, I'm good with incremental progress and feel thankful that we have Rand, Amash and Massie in there.

    Its going to be great finally being able to get some health insurance after boycotting Ocare all these years.


    https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/o...lthcare-reform

    In a press release following the announcement of the finalized rule, Paul called the change “one of the most significant free market health care reforms in a generation.” He’s right. With one simple rule change, the Trump administration substantially expanded the group health insurance market, allowing market forces to drive down costs instead of trying to enact burdensome government mandates and price controls.

    While expanding association health plans may seem like a relatively small feat, its impact could be far-reaching and immense. The Congressional Budget Office estimates that by 2023, about 4 million people will enroll in an association health plan. When combined with a proposed rule change that would expand short-term health insurance plans, which has also been backed by Trump and Paul, CBO predicts the two rule changes would reduce the projected federal deficit by $1 billion over the 2019–2028 period, and that the projected number of uninsured Americans will drop “by roughly 1 million in 2023 and each year thereafter.”
    PLEASE DONATE to Cindy Lake for Clark County, Nevada, Commissioner
    - Good Name recognition, ran in 2014 and only lost by 1% to a million dollar campaign
    - Has active support of the county GOP
    - Opponent, Jim Gibson, is vulnerable and has a history losing due to the same scandal
    - 2018 GOP primary result was 72%
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    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]



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  3. #2
    I gotta give most of the credit to Rand since he delivered the idea and got it through, but you have to give Trump some credit for helping him out - he couldn't do it on his own.

    Does anybody here think that Hillary would have helped Rand pass this?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I gotta give most of the credit to Rand since he delivered the idea and got it through, but you have to give Trump some credit for helping him out - he couldn't do it on his own.

    Does anybody here think that Hillary would have helped Rand pass this?
    Is Zippy here today?

  5. #4
    Rand needs to be more evil.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I gotta give most of the credit to Rand since he delivered the idea and got it through, but you have to give Trump some credit for helping him out - he couldn't do it on his own.

    Does anybody here think that Hillary would have helped Rand pass this?
    I started giving Trump an open mind when he stated he was open to auditing the fed, lots of kudos to him, I have to admit. He's not perfect but he never sold himself as a purist libertarian either. It seems like he cares about doing right by Americans though, while at the same time building his legacy.
    PLEASE DONATE to Cindy Lake for Clark County, Nevada, Commissioner
    - Good Name recognition, ran in 2014 and only lost by 1% to a million dollar campaign
    - Has active support of the county GOP
    - Opponent, Jim Gibson, is vulnerable and has a history losing due to the same scandal
    - 2018 GOP primary result was 72%
    - For liberty in Vegas

    >>>CLICK>>> to learn more about this epic liberty candidate https://cindylake.net/donate

    How to plug a TWEET in post [ TWEET] [/TWEET ]

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I gotta give most of the credit to Rand since he delivered the idea and got it through, but you have to give Trump some credit for helping him out - he couldn't do it on his own.

    Does anybody here think that Hillary would have helped Rand pass this?
    Technically nothing was passed. Randal tried to get it passed as legislation and failed to get any traction. So he and his team found an alternate approach, justifying that it could legally be done via an executive order, which Trump helped by signing. No doubt this probably gave the hardcore Libertarian folks more reason to hate him.

    And no Hillary wouldn't have even considered it.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 06-23-2018 at 10:47 AM.

  8. #7
    Regulations should be thrown out of the healthcare window. Have waivers become ironclad contracts for service. Allow people to choose a garage mechanic to pull out a tooth if that is who they want and can afford. Let a seamstress stitch up a wound if parties are agreeable. It is not like hospitals are clean. Many people go in for elected surgery and come out with an infection. If I had an open wound and needed it stitched up, I am confident that my wife or friend could do an adequate job.

    Why does a person need to be licensed to cut hair?

    I am okay with people that tout to be licensed. Obviously they have an investment and would work in a nicer facility and be able to have higher end clients.

    If I choose to purchase a burrito from a person walking the streets selling tin foiled wrapped burrito's out of a cooler, that should be my decision. Oh my but that person does not have a certified kitchen or proper permit. If regulatory agencies are to be in place then they should be held accountable. How can a facility get a perfect score one day and be closed the next for health related issues?

    Okay fine keep the regulations but do not criminalize others for practicing without a license. Put the burden on the consumer and hold them accountable for the choice they made for the service or product they decided to purchase.

  9. #8
    ^as a licensed electrician, I generally agree you, but then again ive seen some hackwork that places people’s lives in danger. To Your point about letting the consumer decide and take the risk if they choose, but it’s not always about just them. What if the guy claims to be experienced and can do “just as good” as a licensed electrician? When someone is misled into making a choice that not only affects them, but their family, possibly neighbors, future tenants/homeowners, it starts to become clear that in some trades it’s better to have some protection built in. I think sometimes people think that the freedom to take risks is a blanket freedom, but I don’t believe that someone has the right to take life safety risks that can adversely effect others down down the road. Let’s face it, someone who is choosing a unlicensed hack is probably doing it to save money because that person hasn’t built a sustainable business that can stand behind their services.

    Obviously a hair salon is not one of those cases.
    No - No - No - No
    2016



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    ^as a licensed electrician, I generally agree you, but then again ive seen some hackwork that places people’s lives in danger. To Your point about letting the consumer decide and take the risk if they choose, but it’s not always about just them. What if the guy claims to be experienced and can do “just as good” as a licensed electrician? When someone is misled into making a choice that not only affects them, but their family, possibly neighbors, future tenants/homeowners, it starts to become clear that in some trades it’s better to have some protection built in. I think sometimes people think that the freedom to take risks is a blanket freedom, but I don’t believe that someone has the right to take life safety risks that can adversely effect others down down the road. Let’s face it, someone who is choosing a unlicensed hack is probably doing it to save money because that person hasn’t built a sustainable business that can stand behind their services.

    Obviously a hair salon is not one of those cases.
    Licensing is ok, as long as it is done by private businesses and it is not enforced by govt.. That would lead to higher quality licensing services, because they would be staking their business reputation on you by licensing you.

    For one thing, you are assuming that government licensing services prevent other people from doing hack work, but in your post you admit that you have seen it done. I don't think it would happen with any more frequency than it does now. People know that electricity is deadly and I've hired electricians unofficially, under the table in the past for legal (medical) MJ grow operations and even then we weren't trying to cut corners and hire someone who wasn't an electrician.. even though we were planning on removing all of the wiring before vacating and other than knowing the person knew what they were doing having the work done by someone licensed wasn't really important.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Schifference View Post
    Regulations should be thrown out of the healthcare window. Have waivers become ironclad contracts for service. Allow people to choose a garage mechanic to pull out a tooth if that is who they want and can afford. Let a seamstress stitch up a wound if parties are agreeable. It is not like hospitals are clean. Many people go in for elected surgery and come out with an infection. If I had an open wound and needed it stitched up, I am confident that my wife or friend could do an adequate job.

    Why does a person need to be licensed to cut hair?

    I am okay with people that tout to be licensed. Obviously they have an investment and would work in a nicer facility and be able to have higher end clients.

    If I choose to purchase a burrito from a person walking the streets selling tin foiled wrapped burrito's out of a cooler, that should be my decision. Oh my but that person does not have a certified kitchen or proper permit. If regulatory agencies are to be in place then they should be held accountable. How can a facility get a perfect score one day and be closed the next for health related issues?

    Okay fine keep the regulations but do not criminalize others for practicing without a license. Put the burden on the consumer and hold them accountable for the choice they made for the service or product they decided to purchase.
    Quote Originally Posted by asurfaholic View Post
    ^as a licensed electrician, I generally agree you, but then again ive seen some hackwork that places people’s lives in danger. To Your point about letting the consumer decide and take the risk if they choose, but it’s not always about just them. What if the guy claims to be experienced and can do “just as good” as a licensed electrician? When someone is misled into making a choice that not only affects them, but their family, possibly neighbors, future tenants/homeowners, it starts to become clear that in some trades it’s better to have some protection built in. I think sometimes people think that the freedom to take risks is a blanket freedom, but I don’t believe that someone has the right to take life safety risks that can adversely effect others down down the road. Let’s face it, someone who is choosing a unlicensed hack is probably doing it to save money because that person hasn’t built a sustainable business that can stand behind their services.

    Obviously a hair salon is not one of those cases.


    Voluntary certification, it works for accountants.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    Technically nothing was passed. Randal tried to get it passed as legislation and failed to get any traction. So he and his team found an alternate approach, justifying that it could legally be done via an executive order, which Trump helped by signing. No doubt this probably gave the hardcore Libertarian folks more reason to hate him.

    And no Hillary wouldn't have even considered it.
    There is something to be said with regards to with what one can do with executive orders can be undone with executive orders.

    A good question is: When the next Hillary takes office, what will they be able to accomplish with the precedents set?
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    There is something to be said with regards to with what one can do with executive orders can be undone with executive orders.

    A good question is: When the next Hillary takes office, what will they be able to accomplish with the precedents set?
    Would it be better to not do it at all?
    If O'Bummercare dies due to having holes poked in it will the next President be able to put humpty dumpty back together again?
    Rand and Trump are doing the best they can in spite of the RINOs and Demoncrats.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Would it be better to not do it at all?
    In my humble opinion, it doesn't matter either way but it is an appreciated token.

    If O'Bummercare dies due to having holes poked in it will the next President be able to put humpty dumpty back together again?
    The question supposes the statement. And really, the next president would call it Dumpty Humpty and it could be popular.

    It will die when there is no money to fund it.

    Rand and Trump are doing the best they can in spite of the RINOs and Demoncrats.
    I appreciate Rand Paul's efforts and in the limited way Donald Trump promotes individual liberty, his contributions.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
    Who else in public life has called for a pre-emptive strike on North Korea?--Donald Trump



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