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Thread: Ketogenic diet

  1. #1

    Ketogenic diet

    What can you say about the Keto diet? is it really effective? Is it safe?



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  3. #2
    My mother is a diabetic and currently on the Keto diet. She is doing fabulous on it-- her blood sugar numbers are great, her blood pressure is great and she feels great!

    I say try it, you should know your body. If it makes you feel lousy then stop.

    Here is some good info:

    Ketogenic Diet Food List, Including Best vs. Worst Keto Foods
    https://draxe.com/hub/keto-diet/keto...iet-food-list/
    My website: https://www.theherbsofthefield.com/

    "No one is useless in this world who lightens the burdens of another.” ~ Charles Dickens

  4. #3
    It is safe and effective short-term, long-term you might want to incorporate some of the principles of the paleo diet like having pasture raised animals and grass fed meats and organic produce as often as possible.

    Paleo gives you more leniency on carbs, you can do a low carb paleo that would also be keto friendly or moderate carb paleo diet that goes off the keto reservation a little. I also like to incorporate dairy into paleo since I'm not lactose intolerant at all..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  5. #4
    I've been doing this for about 2 months, my wife has been doing keto, since the beginning of the year.

    At first, I had a hard time hitting my macro's without using a food logging app. Once I figured the proportions out, I stopped logging foods. I've lost about 10 pounds since I've started, but most of that has been in the past three weeks since I cut back on how much cheese I was eating.

    I've had to cut my hypertension medicine dosage in half, because my BP has dropped and with the full dose, I was getting some crazy low numbers, especially if I exercised that day. Speaking of exercising...

    Be sure to consume enough calories before you exercise. I "bonked out" on a 25 mile bike ride last week and everything after mile 19 was pretty miserable.

    Also, my sex drive seems to be improved. Maybe that's a side effect of less medication.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by alivecream View Post
    What can you say about the Keto diet? is it really effective? Is it safe?
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    k, I'm calling shenannigans on this. 1) There's nothing in fleshmeats that causes diabetes 2) Depending on exactly which plants you choose, you can make diabetic conditions worse. i.e. starchy vegetables and sweet fruits
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    k, I'm calling shenannigans on this. 1) There's nothing in fleshmeats that causes diabetes 2) Depending on exactly which plants you choose, you can make diabetic conditions worse. i.e. starchy vegetables and sweet fruits

    That wasn't the claim. At least from what I heard. The claim was that there was an increased risk of diabetes, as the level of animal products increases.

    And I've heard that before, from a number of sources. Here is a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942738/ "Meat consumption is consistently associated with diabetes risk."

    Here's something else to look at: https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/...s-risk-study#1

    And this: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...etes-risk.html

    An excerpt:

    "Several previous studies have found that higher intake of total protein, especially animal protein, are associated with long-term risk of developing diabetes," said Dr. Frank Hu, from the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston. Hu, who was not involved in the new study, researches prevention of diabetes through diet and lifestyle.

    "Substantial amounts of animal protein come from red meat and processed meat, which have been consistently associated with increased risk of diabetes," he told Reuters Health in an email.

    Keto may have short-term results, but I have zero doubt that in the long term, it is dangerous.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  9. #8
    Another one for you. This was a study done in China.

    https://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/...th-meat-intake

    Meat consumption is associated with risk for developing type 2 diabetes, according to a new study published in the American Journal of Epidemiology. Researchers followed the diets and disease risk of 63,257 participants from the Singapore Chinese Health Study and found that those who consumed the most red meat (e.g., pork, beef, lamb), poultry, and fish had an increased risk for type 2 diabetes by 23, 15, and 7 percent, respectively, compared with those who consumed the least. In a separate analysis, the authors found that as heme iron increased, so did the risk for diabetes. Other studies have published similar findings, including the Adventist Health Study-2, which showed that as more animal products, such as red meat and fish, are included in the diet, increase for diabetes risk follows.

    https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/186/7/824/3848997
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That wasn't the claim. At least from what I heard. The claim was that there was an increased risk of diabetes, as the level of animal products increases.

    And I've heard that before, from a number of sources. Here is a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942738/ "Meat consumption is consistently associated with diabetes risk."

    Here's something else to look at: https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/...s-risk-study#1

    And this: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...etes-risk.html

    An excerpt:
    "Several previous studies have found that higher intake of total protein, especially animal protein, are associated with long-term risk of developing diabetes," said Dr. Frank Hu, from the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston. Hu, who was not involved in the new study, researches prevention of diabetes through diet and lifestyle.

    "Substantial amounts of animal protein come from red meat and processed meat, which have been consistently associated with increased risk of diabetes," he told Reuters Health in an email.

    Keto may have short-term results, but I have zero doubt that in the long term, it is dangerous.
    That isn't how diabetes works. Those studies are flawed and anybody who has done any research into how diabetes works knows this.

    Let's say you are on a diet where you might commonly have a 4 oz piece of chicken, a little rice and a bunch of vegetables and water for dinner. You will not get diabetes on a diet like this. This is the "control group".

    Let's say you are on a diet where you have an 8 oz piece of chicken, a little rice and some vegetables and water for dinner. Your protein consumption has doubled, but you WILL STILL NOT GET DIABETES on this diet.

    Now let's say you are on a diet where you eat a double cheeseburger, fries, soda and a milkshake. Your protein has increased from the control, and you will likely get diabetes (because of the bun, fries, soda and milkshake, not the protein). That is how they were able to find an increase in protein consumption tied to diabetes - because the people they studied who ate more meat (especially red meat) also had more refined carbs and starches.
    Last edited by dannno; 06-22-2018 at 03:34 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Another one for you. This was a study done in China.

    https://www.pcrm.org/health/medNews/...th-meat-intake
    Meat consumption is associated with risk for developing type 2 diabetes, according to a new study published in the American Journal of Epidemiology. Researchers followed the diets and disease risk of 63,257 participants from the Singapore Chinese Health Study and found that those who consumed the most red meat (e.g., pork, beef, lamb), poultry, and fish had an increased risk for type 2 diabetes by 23, 15, and 7 percent, respectively, compared with those who consumed the least. In a separate analysis, the authors found that as heme iron increased, so did the risk for diabetes. Other studies have published similar findings, including the Adventist Health Study-2, which showed that as more animal products, such as red meat and fish, are included in the diet, increase for diabetes risk follows.

    https://academic.oup.com/aje/article/186/7/824/3848997

    This can easily be explained by the fact that people are told that red meat is less healthy for you than white meat (which is not true at all, but people believe it).

    So people who attempt to eat healthy among the general public eat less sugar, less refined carbs, more vegetables and less red meat.

    People who DON'T put any effort into eating healthy among the general public will eat more sugar, more refined carbs, less vegetables and more red meat.

    That doesn't mean red meat causes people to eat less healthy, or that it in and of itself is less healthy.. it just means that people have been told certain foods are healthy and certain foods are not and so people will often eat foods out of one category or another based on whether they are more or less health conscious.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    That isn't how diabetes works. Those studies are flawed and anybody who has done any research into how diabetes works knows this.

    Let's say you are on a diet where you might commonly have a 4 oz piece of chicken, a little rice and a bunch of vegetables and water for dinner. You will not get diabetes on a diet like this. This is the "control group".

    Let's say you are on a diet where you have an 8 oz piece of chicken, a little rice and some vegetables and water for dinner. Your protein consumption has doubled, but you WILL STILL NOT GET DIABETES on this diet.

    Now let's say you are on a diet where you eat a double cheeseburger, fries, soda and a milkshake. Your protein has increased from the control, and you will likely get diabetes (because of the bun, fries, soda and milkshake, not the protein). That is how they were able to find an increase in protein consumption tied to diabetes - because the people they studied who ate more meat also had more refined carbs and starches.
    lol. Your scenario has nothing to do with the studies. I will take the word of numerous doctors and researchers who have conducted long-term studies, over the word of a guy on the Internet who is clearly the biggest fan of Keto to ever walk the face of the earth.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    That wasn't the claim. At least from what I heard. The claim was that there was an increased risk of diabetes, as the level of animal products increases.

    And I've heard that before, from a number of sources. Here is a study: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3942738/ "Meat consumption is consistently associated with diabetes risk."

    Here's something else to look at: https://www.webmd.com/diabetes/news/...s-risk-study#1

    And this: http://www.foxnews.com/health/2014/0...etes-risk.html

    An excerpt:
    "Several previous studies have found that higher intake of total protein, especially animal protein, are associated with long-term risk of developing diabetes," said Dr. Frank Hu, from the Harvard School of Public Health in Boston. Hu, who was not involved in the new study, researches prevention of diabetes through diet and lifestyle.

    "Substantial amounts of animal protein come from red meat and processed meat, which have been consistently associated with increased risk of diabetes," he told Reuters Health in an email.

    Keto may have short-term results, but I have zero doubt that in the long term, it is dangerous.
    From your link:
    And that might mean cutting down on meat, since the French researchers say a diet heavy in animal products and other acidic foods can cause an acid load in the body, resulting in health complications.
    (most)Fruits are also acidic. Acidity doesn't cause diabetes or even insulin resistance. To cause these things, you have to trigger an insulin response in the body with sugar of some kind. (Breads do it as glycogen, for example) The insulin response fleshmeats trigger is insignificant.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

  15. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    From your link:

    (most)Fruits are also acidic. Acidity doesn't cause diabetes or even insulin resistance. To cause these things, you have to trigger an insulin response in the body with sugar of some kind. (Breads do it as glycogen, for example) The insulin response fleshmeats trigger is insignificant.
    Simply stating that doesn't make it true. Inflammation is a factor in insulin resistance (even Paleo doctors will tell you that) and inflammation is linked to acidic foods. So yes, acidity is indeed a factor when it comes to insulin resistance. At least with type 2 diabetes.

    As for fruit, many people assume that certain fruits are acidic (simply because they are sour / citrusy) when in fact they are actually the opposite. As you can see from this excerpt below:


    "A diet rich in animal protein may favor net acid intake, while most fruits and vegetables form alkaline precursors that neutralize the acidity," wrote Dr. Guy Fagherazzi and Dr. Francoise Clavel-Chapelon, of the Center for Research in Epidemiology and Population Health at INSERM, in Paris. "Contrary to what is generally believed, most fruits -- such as peaches, apples, pears, bananas and even lemons and oranges -- actually reduce dietary acid load once the body has processed them.”


    Although some fruits are more acidic than others, it is silly and wrong to demonize a God-given food while at the same time ignoring that the foods well known to be acidic are animal products, such as meat and dairy.

    Again, there are numerous studies that show an increased risk with an increased level of animal products. You guys can choose to disbelieve the studies if you want, but it sounds to me like you simply want to disbelieve, because you are invested in the whole keto/Paleo thing. For others, I think it boils down to simply not wanting to give up their favorite foods, like steak, bacon, cheese, etc. And that's pretty sad. Especially in light of the fact that health is only one reason, out of many, to ditch animal products.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    lol. Your scenario has nothing to do with the studies. I will take the word of numerous doctors and researchers who have conducted long-term studies, over the word of a guy on the Internet who is clearly the biggest fan of Keto to ever walk the face of the earth.
    Uh, no my scenario HAS EVERYTHING to do with the studies you posted. I described PRECISELY how a study could come to the false conclusion that it came to, which is, a conclusion that is literally retarded.. I'm sorry, but anybody who says meat causes diabetes literally sounds retarded, it's like saying water is dry.

    This is basic logic:

    People are told foods in Section A are healthy and foods in Section B are unhealthy. People who want to be healthy eat foods out of Section A, people who are not concerned typically eat foods out of Section B. Section B has a lot of refined carbs and things that cause diabetes, and it also has red meat which does not cause diabetes. So people who eat food out of section B get diabetes, not because they are eating red meat, but because they are eating everything else in that category. People who try to eat healthy eat foods out of Section A, which has less meat and far less red meat, and also less refined carbs and starches.

    Meat doesn't cause diabetes, there are plenty of scientific studies that prove precisely what I am saying, you are insanely wrong. That doesn't mean you are going to get diabetes, because you don't eat a lot of refined carbs and sugar and starches. But what it does mean is that you are giving people really bad health advise.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    For others, I think it boils down to simply not wanting to give up their favorite foods, like steak, bacon, cheese, etc. And that's pretty sad. Especially in light of the fact that health is only one reason, out of many, to ditch animal products.
    My roommate was a strict vegetarian for at least 12 years and she was about 50 lbs or so overweight. She has lost over 30 lbs in the last few months on the keto diet, and is reversing her symptoms of pre-diabetes.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  18. #16
    Lele Jaro has been on a ketogenic diet for over two years to help with her type 2 diabetes, and has successfully got off insulin. She’s been documenting her health journey on Instagram with keto-friendly food ideas, keto tips, and workout motivation. She’s lost over 80 pounds on her journey, and inspires others to try keto to improve their health. Connect with her on her YouTube channel or Facebook.

    https://www.healthline.com/health/di...ed-keto-diet#7
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Simply stating that doesn't make it true. Inflammation is a factor in insulin resistance (even Paleo doctors will tell you that) and inflammation is linked to acidic foods. So yes, acidity is indeed a factor when it comes to insulin resistance. At least with type 2 diabetes.

    As for fruit, many people assume that certain fruits are acidic (simply because they are sour / citrusy) when in fact they are actually the opposite. As you can see from this excerpt below:
    "A diet rich in animal protein may favor net acid intake, while most fruits and vegetables form alkaline precursors that neutralize the acidity," wrote Dr. Guy Fagherazzi and Dr. Francoise Clavel-Chapelon, of the Center for Research in Epidemiology and Population Health at INSERM, in Paris. "Contrary to what is generally believed, most fruits -- such as peaches, apples, pears, bananas and even lemons and oranges -- actually reduce dietary acid load once the body has processed them.”


    Although some fruits are more acidic than others, it is silly and wrong to demonize a God-given food while at the same time ignoring that the foods well known to be acidic are animal products, such as meat and dairy.

    Again, there are numerous studies that show an increased risk with an increased level of animal products. You guys can choose to disbelieve the studies if you want, but it sounds to me like you simply want to disbelieve, because you are invested in the whole keto/Paleo thing. For others, I think it boils down to simply not wanting to give up their favorite foods, like steak, bacon, cheese, etc. And that's pretty sad. Especially in light of the fact that health is only one reason, out of many, to ditch animal products.

    Organic apple cider vinegar and lemon/lime juice and water - all of which happen to be on the base of the keto pyramid below animal products - will keep your body alkaline if that is an issue

    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uh, no my scenario HAS EVERYTHING to do with the studies you posted. I described PRECISELY how a study could come to the false conclusion that it came to, which is, a conclusion that is literally retarded.. I'm sorry, but anybody who says meat causes diabetes literally sounds retarded, it's like saying water is dry.

    This is basic logic:

    People are told foods in Section A are healthy and foods in Section B are unhealthy. People who want to be healthy eat foods out of Section A, people who are not concerned typically eat foods out of Section B. Section B has a lot of refined carbs and things that cause diabetes, and it also has red meat which does not cause diabetes. So people who eat food out of section B get diabetes, not because they are eating red meat, but because they are eating everything else in that category. People who try to eat healthy eat foods out of Section A, which has less meat and far less red meat, and also less refined carbs and starches.

    Meat doesn't cause diabetes, there are plenty of scientific studies that prove precisely what I am saying, you are insanely wrong. That doesn't mean you are going to get diabetes, because you don't eat a lot of refined carbs and sugar and starches. But what it does mean is that you are giving people really bad health advise.
    So you were personally involved in each of those studies? Don't make me laugh. It looks like you didn't even read them.

    You are by far the biggest cheerleader for the keto trend out of anyone I have ever encountered in my life. You're free to eat what you want, but the reality that you don't want to accept is that keto is horrible in the long run. It may give you short-term results, but get back to me 20 years from now, when your clogged arteries cause you to have a heart attack or stroke. As for diabetes, like I said to HB, nobody claimed it directly caused diabetes, but that it increased the risk. Deny, deny, deny all you want, but you'll see eventually. Mark my words. No need to eat corpses or the pus-filled secretions of exploited animals.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    My roommate was a strict vegetarian for at least 12 years and she was about 50 lbs or so overweight. She has lost over 30 lbs in the last few months on the keto diet, and is reversing her symptoms of pre-diabetes.
    If she was a vegetarian (as opposed to vegan) then it was probably the dairy that kept her overweight. Either that or junk food, but certainly not healthy, plant-based whole foods.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    If she was a vegetarian (as opposed to vegan) then it was probably the dairy that kept her overweight. Either that or junk food, but certainly not healthy, plant-based whole foods.
    It was the carbs that kept her overweight - starches, sugars, etc.. cause she is losing weight now and eating more dairy than she did before.

    If you eat oranges, apples, grapes, potatoes, rice and beans all day you will get fat too. If you replace most of the sugars and starches with non-starchy vegetables, seeds, nuts and oils then you will probably not gain weight.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It was the carbs that kept her overweight - starches, sugars, etc.. cause she is losing weight now and eating more dairy than she did before.

    If you eat oranges, apples, grapes, potatoes, rice and beans all day you will get fat too. If you replace most of the sugars and starches with non-starchy vegetables, seeds, nuts and oils then you will probably not gain weight.
    Yep.

    And the Keto diet is amazing.

    My brother is physically & mentally healthy because of it. It has helped his anxiety/depression more than anything else he has tried. He is amazing.

    And, a good buddy of mine has been on the Keto for 3 months & has lost 30 lbs. AND, he is in perfect health. His wife also suffers from anxiety/depression & the Keto has completely changed her mental state.
    There is no spoon.

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It was the carbs that kept her overweight - starches, sugars, etc.. cause she is losing weight now and eating more dairy than she did before.

    If you eat oranges, apples, grapes, potatoes, rice and beans all day you will get fat too. If you replace most of the sugars and starches with non-starchy vegetables, seeds, nuts and oils then you will probably not gain weight.
    There are tons of vegans on a high carb diet who are either thin, normal weight or athletic… but not fat. It's silly to take your one example of your roommate and apply that to everyone. Of course common sense dictates that it's best to have a variety of healthy plant-based foods (as opposed to just one thing). But this anti-carb nonsense that is popular because of the trendiness of keto is downright dumb.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    There are tons of vegans on a high carb diet who are either thin, normal weight or athletic… but not fat. It's silly to take your one example of your roommate and apply that to everyone. Of course common sense dictates that it's best to have a variety of healthy plant-based foods (as opposed to just one thing). But this anti-carb nonsense that is popular because of the trendiness of keto is downright dumb.
    They are ruining their metabolism, check back with them in 10-20 years, if they are really on a "high carb" diet, vegan or otherwise, they will eventually start having metabolic issues.

    I had a friend who got into weight lifting while I was getting into paleo. I told him about paleo, and that he should do low carb, high protein (since he was body building) and high fat (for energy). But he had all these crazy carbo loader powders, he was eating huge plates of brown rice before his workouts, then drinking carb powder during the workout then eating a big plate of white rice after. He ate small amounts of lean protein and some protein powder. Most of his diet was carbs. I told him he was going to get diabetes, and 2 years later I went over to his house and he had a piece of paper on his fridge that talked about pre-diabetes and what foods he needed to eat to avoid becoming diabetic.. I asked him about it, it was his from his doctor.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    They are ruining their metabolism, check back with them in 10-20 years, if they are really on a "high carb" diet, vegan or otherwise, they will eventually start having metabolic issues.

    I had a friend who got into weight lifting while I was getting into paleo. I told him about paleo, and that he should do low carb, high protein (since he was body building) and high fat (for energy). But he had all these crazy carbo loader powders, he was eating huge plates of brown rice before his workouts, then drinking carb powder during the workout then eating a big plate of white rice after. He ate small amounts of lean protein and some protein powder. Most of his diet was carbs. I told him he was going to get diabetes, and 2 years later I went over to his house and he had a piece of paper on his fridge that talked about pre-diabetes and what foods he needed to eat to avoid becoming diabetic.. I asked him about it, it was his from his doctor.
    Again, your anecdotes don't apply to millions of others. Like I told you, check back with me in 20 years when you have cardiovascular disease or atherosclerosis from years of eating lots of greasy fat and lard and far too many corpses and not enough healthy God-given foods like veggies, fruits, legumes, etc.

    We're going to have to agree to disagree. Plant-based is far healthier than eating death… and we haven't talked about the numerous other reasons why it's better. For me, the health aspect was not even my reason for going plant-based, it was just an added bonus.


    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Again, your anecdotes don't apply to millions of others. Like I told you, check back with me in 20 years when you have cardiovascular disease or atherosclerosis from years of eating lots of greasy fat and lard and far too many corpses and not enough healthy God-given foods like veggies, fruits, legumes, etc.

    We're going to have to agree to disagree. Plant-based is far healthier than eating death… and we haven't talked about the numerous other reasons why it's better. For me, the health aspect was not even my reason for going plant-based, it was just an added bonus.


    Uhh, I probably eat more stuff on the left side of that screen that YOU do. The majority of my diet is fresh organic produce... I have fruit trees in my backyard, I grow my own vegetables too.

    What I avoid is grains, too many starchy vegetables like potatoes and legumes.. and sugar. I don't avoid $#@!ing vegetables..

    Didn't you look at the chart I posted on the last page about the keto diet?? There are two whole rungs below meat.



    It's like you aren't paying attention at all..

    You are wrong about cariovascular disease, that is caused by too many grains, starches, sugars and vegetable oils heavy in omega 6. That is what causes atherosclerosis, because omega 6 is highly inflammatory your body tries to heal the arteries inflammation and it causes blockages. Diets higher in saturated animal fat as opposed to vegetable oils actually reduces your chance of having a heart attack, there are studies out there that have shown this.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/314693.php
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  30. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Again, your anecdotes don't apply to millions of others. Like I told you, check back with me in 20 years when you have cardiovascular disease or atherosclerosis from years of eating lots of greasy fat and lard and far too many corpses and not enough healthy God-given foods like veggies, fruits, legumes, etc.

    We're going to have to agree to disagree. Plant-based is far healthier than eating death… and we haven't talked about the numerous other reasons why it's better. For me, the health aspect was not even my reason for going plant-based, it was just an added bonus.


    Very dishonest of you. You gave an anecdote yourself and dannnno returned the favor. As has been explained to you before, flesh meats don't cause cardiovascular disease. Big agra tried that fear campaign long ago when trying to sell their stuff(especially grain and refined products), even though the science isn't there to support a correlation between flesh meat consumption and CV disease.

    Here's the keto food pyramid generally:

    "fats" can include vegetarian sources like avacado and olive oil. ETA: oops, danno beat me to the pyramid.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Uhh, I probably eat more stuff on the left side of that screen that YOU do. The majority of my diet is fresh organic produce... I have fruit trees in my backyard, I grow my own vegetables too.

    What I avoid is grains, too many starchy vegetables like potatoes and legumes.. and sugar. I don't avoid $#@!ing vegetables..

    Didn't you look at the chart I posted on the last page about the keto diet?? There are two whole rungs below meat.



    It's like you aren't paying attention at all..

    You are wrong about cariovascular disease, that is caused by too many grains, starches, sugars and vegetable oils heavy in omega 6. That is what causes atherosclerosis, because omega 6 is highly inflammatory your body tries to heal the arteries inflammation and it causes blockages. Diets higher in saturated animal fat as opposed to vegetable oils actually reduces your chance of having a heart attack, there are studies out there that have shown this.

    https://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/314693.php
    Hey, do you eat peanuts? They're technically legumes, ya know. I switched to tree nuts like almonds and such after looking into them and how they work in the body.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RPEphesians 6:12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Hey, do you eat peanuts? They're technically legumes, ya know. I switched to tree nuts like almonds and such after looking into them and how they work in the body.
    I will eat anything, tbh.. I don't think having 100% restrictions on anything is incredibly helpful, and maybe one day a month I can have something like a Chocolate Lava Cake. Or pizza on rare occasions. If your diet is pretty good the rest of the month you will be fine.

    But ya I don't eat a lot of peanuts, almonds are a better option I would tend to have those but they are a bit more expensive as well.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Very dishonest of you. You gave an anecdote yourself and dannnno returned the favor. As has been explained to you before, flesh meats don't cause cardiovascular disease. Big agra tried that fear campaign long ago when trying to sell their stuff(especially grain and refined products), even though the science isn't there to support a correlation between flesh meat consumption and CV disease.

    Here's the keto food pyramid generally:

    "fats" can include vegetarian sources like avacado and olive oil. ETA: oops, danno beat me to the pyramid.
    I posted studies, I wasn't the one who said "My roommate did this or that" or "My brother did this or that…" So I'm not sure what you're talking about unless you're referring to my statement that there are millions of vegans who are not fat? First of all, that was in response to his anecdote. You're twisting things around. Secondly, there are plenty of studies that back that up, so that's not exactly an anecdote, and what is dishonest is to falsely accuse me.

    And yes, I know that fats can include vegetarian sources. That doesn't change anything I said earlier, because I was talking specifically about animal fats and animal products, and there are tons of studies that back that up. It's just that keto cheerleaders like him choose to believe studies that promote keto....And it is a well-known fact that anything that promotes meat and dairy is almost always funded by the meat and dairy industries.
    Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

    Romans 12:2

  34. #30
    Ya know. .there is a way that this set of results would be almost valid.

    Several years ago, hubby had the flu.. 4 days of misery. He drank a little water and a little pediolite. (sp?) The first thing he wanted when he felt better was a porterhouse.
    He's diabetic and while he was sick, his numbers were outstanding. 80-95 or so. After he ate the porterhouse.. the whole thing, he waited the prerequisite hour and tested his sugar. It was over 300.. just from conventionally farmed cow.. no sauce.. no sides.

    The cow eats sugary grains .. you eat sugary grains.

    Grass fed meat does not do this.
    Disclaimer: any post made after midnight and before 8AM is made before the coffee dip stick has come up to optomim level - expect some level of silliness,

    The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are out numbered by those who vote for a living !!!!!!!

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