Does the West have the will to survive?

[AuH20]

White people and their historical savagery! Sometimes you have to laugh when these stories break.

[A Son of Liberty]

Not everyone has the exact same rights, you have a right to be in your house, I don't, I have a right to be in my house, you don't.

Holy crap, you know what? I've never thought of it this way...

You want to know why?

Because I'm not a $#@!ING MORON.

That's why.

Only simpletons and anarchists believe that there is no difference between the left and the right, there often isn't enough difference between the party leadership but there is a vast gulf that grows ever wider between the voters and most of the politicians.
You will never achieve anarchy (at least not in one jump) so it is necessary to work with one side or the other to reduce government as much as possible, the right can be harnessed for the work, the left is in complete opposition to the idea.

"The right" is a little better - a little better - when it comes to gun rights, taxation rhetoric, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

"The left" is a little better - little better - when it comes to foreign policy, civil rights, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

I haven't the faintest expectation that statelessness is anywhere near the horizon, when the likes of yourself is apparently a well-regarded member @ RPF's. If anything would discourage me from the prospect of imminent freedom, your rep bar here is literally it.

If you think there is anything resembling human liberty to be found on the popular American political right, you're living a far more creepy fantasy than I am, I assure you.

[Swordsmyth]

Holy crap, you know what? I've never thought of it this way...

You want to know why?

Because I'm not a $#@!ING MORON.

That's why.



"The right" is a little better - a little better - when it comes to gun rights, taxation rhetoric, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

"The left" is a little better - little better - when it comes to foreign policy, civil rights, and a few other policy points. What am I missing, big picture-wise? I think that's it...

I haven't the faintest expectation that statelessness is anywhere near the horizon, when the likes of yourself is apparently a well-regarded member @ RPF's. If anything would discourage me from the prospect of imminent freedom, your rep bar here is literally it.

If you think there is anything resembling human liberty to be found on the popular American political right, you're living a far more creepy fantasy than I am, I assure you.

The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

[timosman]

The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

Keep it short and sweet with these morons.

[AuH20]

The left is nearly unredeemable, while the right has remnants. With that said, we live in the left's world. They largely created this nightmare. Everywhere you look, you see their wicked handiwork. Who do you think tore apart Central and South America in the early 1900s? Progressives.

[acptulsa]

It should be a left turn.

Yes, we get that you're a completely partisan, utterly shameless, "Left v. Right", divide-and-conquer stooge for the Powers that Be and the Status Quo. But when you fly in the face of half a century of clear and undeniable evidence and pronounce up is down and down is up...





...it begs the question. When you pretend that Republicans have ever been interested in doing anything with NASA besides trying to claim credit when it finished a mission begun under a previous, Democrat administration, and you pretend that Republicans are uninterested in serving as Israeli Lapdogs, are you being $#@!ing stupid or are you assuming we're $#@!ing stupid?

[A Son of Liberty]

The left is not better on anything and your list of what the right is better on is terribly anemic, I would go into more detail but you have long ago proven yourself incapable of learning.

'kay.

Here's this -- you haven't been here long enough to speak about anything in terms of "long ago".

You're politically immature. I've stood where you're standing. You'd do well to avoid acting like you know what the hell you're talking about.

[A Son of Liberty]

Keep it short and sweet with these morons.

As for you... you're little more than an unimaginative tit.

[timosman]

As for you... you're little more than an unimaginative tit.

Are you always this charming?

[A Son of Liberty]

Are you always this charming?

Only with unimaginative tits.

[timosman]

Only with unimaginative tits.

You are so witty.

[A Son of Liberty]

You are so witty.

And again, you prove my presumption, that you're an unimaginative tit.

[timosman]

And again, you prove my presumption, that you're an unimaginative tit.

I heard you the first two times. Are you running out of issues to be outraged about?

[Swordsmyth]

Yes, we get that you're a completely partisan, utterly shameless, "Left v. Right", divide-and-conquer stooge for the Powers that Be and the Status Quo. But when you fly in the face of half a century of clear and undeniable evidence and pronounce up is down and down is up...





...it begs the question. When you pretend that Republicans have ever been interested in doing anything with NASA besides trying to claim credit when it finished a mission begun under a previous, Democrat administration, and you pretend that Republicans are uninterested in serving as Israeli Lapdogs, are you being $#@!ing stupid or are you assuming we're $#@!ing stupid?

Look who thinks NASA is a good thing or will ever get us to other planets and star systems.
I never said the Swampublicans are perfect but the left is just as addicted to Israel, the right (as opposed to Swampublicans) can be saved the left is dead.

[acptulsa]

Look who thinks NASA is a good thing or will ever get us to other planets and star systems.

Look who is, once again, trying to deflect from the fact that he's a lying scumbag tool by doubling down on being a lying scumbag tool.

Here's where you say, ok, I didn't actually endorse NASA in any way and you lied when you said I did, but claim it was a natural mistake--and completely refuse to admit that you are the one who gave NASA a backhanded compliment by implying you found it better than Middle East Adventurism, and further implying the falsehood that Republicans are for space exploration and Democrats are against it.

Go ahead. It may be doubling down on your attempt at deflection from your first lie, but at least it won't be doubling down on this latest libel of me--and it won't be tripling down on your original lie. That will make you look like you're 'coming around'.

I never said the Swampublicans are perfect but the left is just as addicted to Israel, the right (as opposed to Swampublicans) can be saved the left is dead.

You keep saying that the Right is just as bad as the Left, but if left unchecked the Right won't be as bad as the Left. That's exactly why you were called politically immature, and told you have no cue what the $#@! you're talking about. Nothing in Washington, D.C., in politics, or in the public realm ever, ever, ever improves by going unopposed. Ever.

And that brings up the other thing that either makes you a total naked tool or a fool. Every piece of evidence--witness the similarity of Demopublicans and Republicrats on the subject of Israel--indicates that the swamp is a bipartisan swamp. But you keep trying to convince people who know better than you do that the solution to the bipartisan swamp is a partisan unity. The bipartisan swamp is unified, and no other unification of the swamp is going to be any better than this unification of the swamp.

You know, it wouldn't be so bad that you're a damned fool, if you weren't such a spamming damned fool. As it is, be sure to chew on the lies about the world and about me I just made you eat one hundred times before you choke on them, and $#@! the $#@! off.

Of course it would be of some intellectual interest to know of you spend hours every freaking day evangelizing this twisted Republican Religion of yours for the same reason Sola_Fide did something similar--because your self-image has gotten tangled with your pitifully skewed world view, and screaming over and over what you believe (despite the evidence) enables you to drown out those who talk sense to you--or you do it for the same reason Zippy does--it's a living. Naturally, the fact that you don't want the answer to that puzzle known is the very reason why you didn't tell us whether you're that stupid, or you think we're that stupid, which I inquired about earlier. But I really don't think anyone cares all that much, so feel free to ignore that particular question.

[Swordsmyth]

Look who is, once again, trying to deflect from the fact that he's a lying scumbag tool by doubling down on being a lying scumbag tool.

Here's where you say, ok, I didn't actually endorse NASA in any way and you lied when you said I did, but claim it was a natural mistake--and completely refuse to admit that you are the one who gave NASA a backhanded compliment by implying you found it better than Middle East Adventurism, and further implying the falsehood that Republicans are for space exploration and Democrats are against it.

Go ahead. It may be doubling down on your attempt at deflection from your first lie, but at least it won't be doubling down on this latest libel of me--and it won't be tripling down on your original lie. That will make you look like you're 'coming around'.

Wrong again, the meme I responded to did not refer to NASA and neither did I, YOU are the one who brought up NASA as if they are the ones who would take us to other planets and the stars and that Demoncrats are to be given credit for that.
Private industry will mine the asteroids and the moon and take us to other worlds if leftist government gets out of the way and doesn't destroy western civilization by flooding it with barbarians who will drag us down to tribal anarchy.

The meme says space and I think private while you think government, nothing more needs to be said.

You keep saying that the Right is just as bad as the Left, but if left unchecked the Right won't be as bad as the Left. That's exactly why you were called politically immature, and told you have no cue what the $#@! you're talking about. Nothing in Washington, D.C., in politics, or in the public realm ever, ever, ever improves by going unopposed. Ever.

LOL, opposition will arise to the right of the Swampublicans after the Demoncrats are destroyed, having the left around keeps the Swampublicans the lesser of two evils so most of the sane public won't ever consider better options.

And that brings up the other thing that either makes you a total naked tool or a fool. Every piece of evidence--witness the similarity of Demopublicans and Republicrats on the subject of Israel--indicates that the swamp is a bipartisan swamp. But you keep trying to convince people who know better than you do that the solution to the bipartisan swamp is a partisan unity. The bipartisan swamp is unified, and no other unification of the swamp is going to be any better than this unification of the swamp.

If the two party uniparty is such a big part of the oligarchs' control mechanism then isn't a good idea to amputate the gangrenous limb and leave it hopping around on one foot? the idea isn't to see the Swampublicans victorious, it is to hobble the uniparty by cutting off one of it's legs and then add a real party on it's right flank to fill the vacuum.


An Idiot like you doesn't deserve a response to the rest of your post but I am not on anyone's payroll.

[acptulsa]

Wrong again, the meme I responded to did not refer to NASA and neither did I, YOU are the one who brought up NASA as if they are the ones who would take us to other planets and the stars and that Demoncrats are to be given credit for that.
Private industry will mine the asteroids and the moon and take us to other worlds if leftist government gets out of the way and doesn't destroy western civilization by flooding it with barbarians who will drag us down to tribal anarchy.

The meme says space and I think private while you think government, nothing more needs to be said.

That horse $#@! took quite a bit of mental gymnastics. No wonder it took you so long to respond. Fact is, government put men on the moon, government put spacecraft on Mars and Venus, and government is what is spending blood and treasure trying to civilize parts of the world which have been happily behaving like brats for thousands of years. So, no, clearly your latest interpretation of that meme has nothing to do with SpaceX doing potentially profitable things like putting satellites in orbit, tourism and mining. In fact, I'd venture to guess everyone on the planet has got, or could get, a better handle on the meaning of that meme than you do.

So this statement is either an disingenuous attempt to cover your ass or more evidence you're stupid.

LOL, opposition will arise to the right of the Swampublicans after the Demoncrats are destroyed, having the left around keeps the Swampublicans the lesser of two evils so most of the sane public won't ever consider better options.

Which is, of course, why you hang around here eighty hours a week trying to convince people that the GOP is far enough right, the Libertarian Party is beyond hope, and we are all crazy when we say the GOP is only about two inches away from the Democratic Party on a good day. Because you figure that's just the way to bring on the day when something which is genuinely conservative is brought to pass.

Even though anyone with a lick of sense knows that no matter how liberal the GOP is, the death of the DNC would never bring liberals bleating like sheep into the RNC. They'd sooner inflate the Socialist Party, and throw the ball away. Brilliant $#@!ing plan, as always, Einstein.

If the two party uniparty is such a big part of the oligarchs' control mechanism then isn't a good idea to amputate the gangrenous limb and leave it hopping around on one foot? the idea isn't to see the Swampublicans victorious, it is to hobble the uniparty by cutting off one of it's legs and then add a real party on it's right flank to fill the vacuum.

Which is, of course, why you want to have us all tilting windmills in an abortive attempt to kill off the limb which is doing its job, instead of doing what we were trying to do for years before you ever showed up here, and cut off the party which is attracting idiots by claiming to be conservative, and leaving conservatism and conservatives with no representation.

You seem to be confused about which of the limbs is rotting away. If this is the best diagnosis you can come up with, you can never aspire to anything more than malpractice.

An Idiot like you doesn't deserve a response to the rest of your post but I am not on anyone's payroll.

Oh, I get Idiot with a capital I, do I? I suppose that means you already went whining to the mods, and are disappointed that I'm not banned yet?

Well, if you're carrying water for the Powers that Be, and helping divide and conquer the populace, and you aren't demanding payment for the service, then you're a traitor to every thinking conservative in the nation, and a damned fool to boot. Which, I'm sure, is news to no one but you.

Just keep this in mind: The only thing worse than a damned dirty, traitorous "Swampublican" is a damned dirty, traitorous Swampublican who is self-righteous. Like you.

[Swordsmyth]

That horse $#@! took quite a bit of mental gymnastics. No wonder it took you so long to respond.

LOL, I have other things to do, you must be really desperate to resort to the response time fallacy.

Fact is, government put men on the moon, government put spacecraft on Mars and Venus, and government is what is spending blood and treasure trying to civilize parts of the world which have been happily behaving like brats for thousands of years. So, no, clearly your latest interpretation of that meme has nothing to do with SpaceX doing potentially profitable things like putting satellites in orbit, tourism and mining. In fact, I'd venture to guess everyone on the planet has got, or could get, a better handle on the meaning of that meme than you do.

Government wasted money on those things and then stopped short, only private enterprise could ever do them right and truly take mankind into space.
And trying to tame the rest of the world either by bringing them to the west or by wasting blood and treasure conquering and reforming them is the detour that has not only brought progress to a halt but is threatening to destroy everything.

Again you think like a statist.

Which is, of course, why you hang around here eighty hours a week trying to convince people that the GOP is far enough right,

That is a lie.

the Libertarian Party is beyond hope,

They are and they are also too leftist.

and we are all crazy when we say the GOP is only about two inches away from the Democratic Party on a good day.

If that was ever true it isn't now, the Demoncrats have gone full communist/satanist.

Even though anyone with a lick of sense knows that no matter how liberal the GOP is, the death of the DNC would never bring liberals bleating like sheep into the RNC. They'd sooner inflate the Socialist Party, and throw the ball away. Brilliant $#@!ing plan, as always, Einstein.

You don't understand, the point is to defeat the liberals in the battle of ideas and in the struggle for power, if the Demoncrat party is destroyed before one or both of those happen their voters will fragment into the various leftist parties and lose their collective power, I am well aware of the dangers posed by the existence of the vote zombies that is why I am keen to keep them from importing more and I look for opportunities like CALExit to be rid of as many of them as possible, but the middle is the key to power and long term philosophical victory we must convert them to the right, Trump is doing a better job at that than the liberaltarians shouting that the right is no better than the left in defiance of visible reality ever will.

Which is, of course, why you want to have us all tilting windmills in an abortive attempt to kill off the limb which is doing its job, instead of doing what we were trying to do for years before you ever showed up here, and cut off the party which is attracting idiots by claiming to be conservative, and leaving conservatism and conservatives with no representation.

You seem to be confused about which of the limbs is rotting away. If this is the best diagnosis you can come up with, you can never aspire to anything mire than malpractice.

It is the left that is suicidally insane and that is running the world, they also keep the Swampublicans safely the "lesser of two evils", they are the keystone.

Oh, I get Idiot with a capital I, do I? I suppose that means you already went whining to the mods, and are disappointed that I'm not banned yet?

Aren't we paranoid today?
I didn't even -rep you let alone ask for you to be banned.

Well, if you're carrying water for the Powers that Be, and helping divide and conquer the populace, and you aren't demanding payment for the service, then you're a traitor to every thinking conservative in the nation, and a damned fool to boot. Which, I'm sure, is news to no one but you.

You are the one trapped in a little box and posing no threat to the powers that be while the left destroys the world, it is people like you who can't even identify the main enemy and engage in political triage that discourage the ordinary Republicans and Independents from listening to us, why should they listen when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

[CCTelander]

'kay.

Here's this -- you haven't been here long enough to speak about anything in terms of "long ago".

You're politically immature. I've stood where you're standing. You'd do well to avoid acting like you know what the hell you're talking about.

They can be difficult at that stage, can't they? Sadly, many never grow beyond it. I'm not holding out much hope for that one.

[acptulsa]

LOL, I have other things to do, you must be really desperate to resort to the response time fallacy.

The fallacy is, I made a point--that your mental gymnastics mean nothing--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.

Government wasted money on those things and then stopped short, only private enterprise could ever do them right and truly take mankind into space.
And trying to tame the rest of the world either by bringing them to the west or by wasting blood and treasure conquering and reforming them is the detour that has not only brought progress to a halt but is threatening to destroy everything.

Again you think like a statist.

The fallacy is, I made a point--that the meme in question clearly does not say what you claim it does--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.

That is a lie.

Oh? You only spend seventy-five hours a week here trying to convince people the GOP is meeting the needs of conservatives for representation?

They are and they are also too leftist.

The LP makes today's GOP look like the Politboro.

If that was ever true it isn't now, the Demoncrats have gone full communist/satanist.

And the Republican Party has been full Nazi for a decade and a half. Like I said, two inches away.

You don't understand, the point is to defeat the liberals in the battle of ideas and in the struggle for power, if the Demoncrat party is destroyed before one or both of those happen their voters will fragment into the various leftist parties and lose their collective power, I am well aware of the dangers posed by the existence of the vote zombies that is why I am keen to keep them from importing more and I look for opportunities like CALExit to be rid of as many of them as possible, but the middle is the key to power and long term philosophical victory we must convert them to the right, Trump is doing a better job at that than the liberaltarians shouting that the right is no better than the left in defiance of visible reality ever will.

No, you don't understand. Firstly, you aren't destroying the DNC by coming here and grumbling about it and trying to herd disaffected conservatives back into the GOP fold. All you're doing is convincing conservatives that, if this many conservatives are as stupid as you, all hope is lost. As for liberals, even if you could do a better job of frag grenading the DNC than Hillary Clinton just did, liberals are herd animals, and they'd still all flee like lemmings in the exact same direction. This is why you were called politically immature and stupid. If you were experienced and bright, you'd know that about liberals.

It is the left that is suicidally insane and that is running the world, they also keep the Swampublicans safely the "lesser of two evils", they are the keystone.

You want conservatives to stay on the defensive, always reacting, finding no unity anywhere except in their hatred of liberals, prostrating themselves, standing for nothing, falling for anything, without one shred of positive, workable philosophy to sell the world.

No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction. You can't have that. We had that working in 2008 and 2012, and you can't understand why we reject your pleas to march in lockstep with your "Swampublican" allegedly lesser evil after fighting for the good--and making headway, before internet censorship and Trump's unprecedented free publicity and trolls like you derailed the effort this last cycle--holds zero appeal to people who hold with a real conservatism which you can't seem to begin to understand.

Aren't we paranoid today?
I didn't even -rep you let alone ask for you to be banned.

Of course you didn't.

You are the one trapped in a little box and posing no threat to the powers that be while the left destroys the world, it is people like you who can't even identify the main enemy and engage in political triage that discourage the ordinary Republicans and Independents from listening to us, why should they listen when you obviously have no idea what you are talking about?

I'm the one who has heard Republicans wheedle about the "lesser evil" since Nixon, while the nation moves left and moves left and moves left and moves left and moves farther left. Your plan is the plan of sheep and fools. It is the policy of appeasement that has brought every dictator the world has ever seen to power, while men who know better temper their principle with pragmatism. So-called conservatives like you are why the nation is totalitarian, broke and despised.

Liberals who are liberal are a problem, but they are a familiar and predictable problem. But that problem could be solved, if it weren't for the bigger problem. And the bigger problem is conservatives who have no principles to stand on, and no balls to stiffen their spines. In other words, so-called conservatives like you.

They can be difficult at that stage, can't they? Sadly, many never grow beyond it. I'm not holding out much hope for that one.

The irritating thing is, the wronger they are the spammier they are. Did he really say he has other things to do? Not much, apparently.

[Swordsmyth]

The fallacy is, I made a point--that your mental gymnastics mean nothing--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.



The fallacy is, I made a point--that the meme in question clearly does not say what you claim it does--and you try to deflect from that point by seizing on another part of the sentence and talking about that.



Oh? You only spend seventy-five hours a week here trying to convince people the GOP is meeting the needs of conservatives for representation?



The LP makes today's GOP look like the Politboro.



And the Republican Party has been full Nazi for a decade and a half. Like I said, two inches away.



No, you don't understand. Firstly, you aren't destroying the DNC by coming here and grumbling about it and trying to herd disaffected conservatives back into the GOP fold. All you're doing is convincing conservatives that, if this many conservatives are as stupid as you, all hope is lost. As for liberals, even if you could do a better job of frag grenading the DNC than Hillary Clinton just did, liberals are herd animals, and they'd still all flee like lemmings in the exact same direction. This is why you were called politically immature and stupid. If you were experienced and bright, you'd know that about liberals.



You want conservatives to stay on the defensive, always reacting, finding no unity anywhere except in their hatred of liberals, prostrating themselves, standing for nothing, falling for anything, without one shred of positive, workable philosophy to sell the world.

No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction. You can't have that. We had that working in 2008 and 2012, and you can't understand why we reject your pleas to march in lockstep with your "Swampublican" allegedly lesser evil after fighting for the good--and making headway, before internet censorship and Trump's unprecedented free publicity and trolls like you derailed the effort this last cycle--holds zero appeal to people who hold with a real conservatism which you can't seem to begin to understand.



Of course you didn't.



I'm the one who has heard Republicans wheedle about the "lesser evil" since Nixon, while the nation moves left and moves left and moves left and moves left and moves farther left. Your plan is the plan of sheep and fools. It is the policy of appeasement that has brought every dictator the world has ever seen to power, while men who know better temper their principle with pragmatism. So-called conservatives like you are why the nation is totalitarian, broke and despised.

Liberals who are liberal are a problem, but they are a familiar and predictable problem. But that problem could be solved, if it weren't for the bigger problem. And the bigger problem is conservatives who have no principles to stand on, and no balls to stiffen their spines. In other words, so-called conservatives like you.



The irritating thing is, the wronger they are the spammier they are. Did he really say he has other things to do? Not much, apparently.

Everything you said is so wrong it no longer deserves a detailed response.
You will not succeed at wasting any more of my time.

[acptulsa]

Everything you said is so wrong it no longer deserves a detailed response.
You will not succeed at wasting any more of my time.

See, you think you got the last word. But it isn't the last word if you don't say a damned thing.

[Swordsmyth]

See, you think you got the last word. But it isn't the last word if you don't say a damned thing.

Unlike you I don't care about the last word, if I did I would have let you waste more of my time on an extensive detailed response.
You have the last word, enjoy it but it doesn't make you right or the winner.

[acptulsa]

And that word is Appeaser. Sure, it doesn't sound like much to modern American ears. But those who were in France 75 years ago understand what a Vichy piece of dirt you are.

[jllundqu]

I'm for what we've achieved even with our flaws. I don't follow the ideas mentioned here that we need to destroy America so it can be rebuilt.

I'm also not sure what the appeal is for the embrace of Dog-eat-dog survival of the fittest. I think we have to much of that and its what leads to things like ENRON.

Not trying to push for a central architect of society, but questioning the appeal of that kind of cut throat culture or why people want a more primitive lifestyle or dislike modernity so much.

As someone who has studied humanity for a very long time, my observations are this:

If human liberty is to survive the next 100 years, one of two things must happen...

1. Free technology MUST outpace central governments and TPTB.... technology can either save us or doom us. We can either have free abundant energy, artificial intelligence, decentralized currency, and a bright future....

or

2. TPTB continue on their course and prevent the proliferation of such technologies, in which case the only thing that can potentially bring us closer to human freedom is a reset event that will reset the scales.

I would posit that the former is more likely, and more desirable, than the latter... in fact I see the advancement of technology as the most exciting thing to witness in our lifetimes. 70% of this planet's surface is uninhabited (water). I truly believe that there will be floating cities and eventually whole societies outside of current nation-states, both floating cities, and cities on the sea-floor with things like surface-floating solar panels, docks, pressurized elevators, and things we haven't even thought of yet. Ideas like Libertarianism, Minarchy, Anarchy, and Voluntaryism will all have their chance to prove themselves on the battlefield of ideas.

And if TPTB get their way and we are headed for a reset event/collapse.... my shelter is fully stocked, bugout locations prepped, and my powder is dry.

[Anti Federalist]

No wonder you keep denying the wisdom of Ron Paul, time after time calling him wrong. He had a positive, workable, conservative plan which could actually move this nation and this tired old world forward in a positive direction.

Yes, we did.

And it was overwhelmingly rejected.

Ron is wrong, on a critical point: freedom is NOT popular.

I don't claim to have any more answers, when logic, reason, consistency, honesty, integrity, peace, liberty and prosperity cannot be "sold" to a dimwitted and addlepated body politic.

All I know now, is that if the people that claim to be speaking for the "opposition" get their way, I, me, you, all of us, are well and truly $#@!ed.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm just not sure any issues are worth hoping for an EMP to knock everything out.

How about the ability to live one day, just one 24 hour period, that you could go about your business and not be under 24/7 surveillance.

When, exactly, did Big Brother transition from a creepy government icon, to a cute corporate selling point?

[Anti Federalist]

Half a century of progressive rot... and no talk at all about the right-wing rot.

Perhaps I should have said over a century.

Progressivism can be found on the left and right.

Shrub was arguably a progressive, so was Teddy Roosevelt and Richard Nixon and Dwight Eisenhower, using presidents as an example.

The US has been flooded with people whose countries were ruined by the US - and they all know it - and the reason they're coming to the place with a government that ruined their lives, the only reason, is to make a buck and try to get by.

Very true. Pat Buchanan was very much opposed to NAFTA, over 25 years ago, and everything he and other naysayers predicted has all come to pass.

Not the least of which was the utter destruction of the Mexican economy.

There is a golden opportunity to explain a third way - a way that doesn't imprison people for making jokes about gender neutral bathrooms but ALSO doesn't create banana republics - and the people who are fleeing those tyrannies are the exact people who would listen.

I disagree. I don't think they will listen to the message of liberty, freedom, free markets and limited government any more than the millions of people that are fleeing California or New York or New Jersey or Ill-Annoy, and proceeding to $#@! up, by implementation of the very same government policies in their new home, that created the $#@!hole they are running away from.

The West doesn't have the will to survive because the West fundamentally doesn't believe in its supposed central tenets.

Could not agree more.

True progressives represent a very loud, very angry, very SMALL minority here.

Here, where?

But we're already getting reports that the universities that produce them are losing entrants by droves, and serious legal actions taken by their victims (like Shepherd and Peterson) pose a very real chance of financially crippling them even further... not to mention silencing them in the future.

Good, let's hope that trend continues, and that people like Mike Rowe continue to step up and offer very real alternatives to an over priced four year brainwashing.

The much smaller threat to liberty is more dangerous because it's the one that has widespread support. It's the one that has had "border checks" a full 100 miles within the border for more than a decade. It's the one that has gotten away with kidnapping for years.

If you stopped it at the border, there would be no rationale for the grossly unconstitutional "Constitution Free Zones".

But I have a strong position on immigration. I don't think that we should give amnesty and they become voters. But I do think we should deal with our borders. One way that I would suggest that we could do it is pay less attention to the borders between Afghanistan and Iraq and Pakistan and bring our troops home and deal with the border. But why do we pay more attention to the borders overseas and less attention to the borders here at home? We now have a mess on the borders, and it has a lot more to do with it than just immigration, because we're financing some of this militarism against the drug dealers on the borders right now to the tune of over $1 billion. And there is a mess down there, but it's much bigger than just the immigration problem. - Ron Paul

Neither side of this debate has any moral legs to stand on. The reason the West won't survive is because neither side can get its $#@! together and figure out how not to be objectively evil and do it all the time.

There is something to that, and because of that, "we" are frozen by indecision and doubt, unable to lift a finger to the defense of the west.

Which, for all its warts and faults, deserves to be defended.

It is the only political culture, for want of a better phrase, that recognizes the rights of the individual over the mob collective.

It really did look like a third way was being born from 08-12. It's a real shame so many people abandoned it.

They didn't.

When I saw so many Ron Paul people become Bernie Sanders people from 2012 to 2016, it proved to me that a large chunk of "our" support really had no interest or idea of freedom, free markets, liberty and limited government.

They were just contrarians, looking to give "the man" a big "$#@! you"...bonus for free $#@! thrown into the bargain.

Many went to Sanders, some went to Trump, for the same reason.

[VIDEODROME]

How about the ability to live one day, just one 24 hour period, that you could go about your business and not be under 24/7 surveillance.

When, exactly, did Big Brother transition from a creepy government icon, to a cute corporate selling point?

It sounded like some people were so frustrated they wanted to take out every kind of technology or electronics, not just stuff government related. Or maybe I misunderstood them? That would include knocking out the Net and this forum.

[Anti Federalist]

It sounded like some people were so frustrated they wanted to take out every kind of technology or electronics, not just stuff government related. Or maybe I misunderstood them? That would include knocking out the Net and this forum.

If losing this forum and the larger interweb universe was the price to pay for an elimination of the global surveillance grid, both public and private, I would happily, instantaneously choose the latter.

I will be more than happy to write you a letter to keep in touch.