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Thread: Trump to start US Space Force

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Just because something may or may not be able to be considered a postal service doesn't mean it has to be one, GPS satellites are primarily a military project and that is how they are justified, therefore they don't need to be justified as a postal service.
    Also they don't send linguistic messages in any human language.
    Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.



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  3. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by kcchiefs6465 View Post
    Space Babel is good.

    To hell with shipping and handling.
    Come on wheres the spin, heres one, Trump just wants to make peace with Russia and go into space, the only way we can make peace with Russia is with a space race, or maybe we will keep buying all of our rockets from Russia and that will be our way of making peace and going into space.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Original Intent. The Framers did not originally intend aircraft and spaceships.
    And before you make a snide remark about flintlocks and quill pens, the Framer's original intent was that the right to bear arms extended to the equal armament common to military use, and the original intent of freedom of speech extended to all manner of expression.

    Whereas the original intent of the Army was a land based combat force, and the Navy a sea based combat force.

    Original intent is a thing. maybe you should look it up.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Just because something may or may not be able to be considered a postal service doesn't mean it has to be one, GPS satellites are primarily a military project and that is how they are justified, therefore they don't need to be justified as a postal service.
    There are more civilian users than military.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Also they don't send linguistic messages in any human language.
    Neither does your ISP, but you argued that should be part of the postal system.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.




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  7. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    The Constituion clearly authorizes two Departments. Army, and Navy. This covers land and sea. If they want a force for the Air, they need to amend the Constitution. If they want a force for Space, they need to amend the Constitution.
    It doesn't authorize any departments, it leaves that to Congress, it authorizes "armies" and a "Navy" and makes a difference in how they are to be funded.

    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Original Intent. The Framers did not originally intend aircraft and spaceships.
    That is like saying the 2ndA only covers muskets.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

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  8. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.
    Was the public allowed to use it?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    And before you make a snide remark about flintlocks and quill pens, the Framer's original intent was that the right to bear arms extended to the equal armament common to military use, and the original intent of freedom of speech extended to all manner of expression.

    Whereas the original intent of the Army was a land based combat force, and the Navy a sea based combat force.

    Original intent is a thing. maybe you should look it up.
    The Air Farce is based on land and the space force will be as well, the USMC is again in more danger of being unconstitutional since it has become more land based than sea based but doesn't have a two year appropriation limit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It doesn't authorize any departments, it leaves that to Congress, it authorizes "armies" and a "Navy" and makes a difference in how they are to be funded.



    That is like saying the 2ndA only covers muskets.
    called. it.

    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6642262
    ďAnd how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more Ė we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.Ē ― Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    There are more civilian users than military.
    Irrelevant, the military is allowing the public to use their equipment as a courtesy.



    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Neither does your ISP, but you argued that should be part of the postal system.
    They do, it may be enciphered and deciphered en route but this is still a linguistic message in a human language.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Truth is truth, I replied to your expanded argument when I got to it. (post #67)
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Air Farce is based on land and the space force will be as well, the USMC is again in more danger of being unconstitutional since it has become more land based than sea based but doesn't have a two year appropriation limit.
    Because you understand the Constitution better than they guy who actually wrote it. Got it.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Because you understand the Constitution better than they guy who actually wrote it. Got it.
    I am using your definitions of what is meant by "army" and "navy" as well as the original intent of the 2 year appropriation limit.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    They do, it may be enciphered and deciphered en route but this is still a linguistic message in a human language.
    A string of times is a human message, no different than picking up your phone and calling a a time service so that you can set the clock on your microwave.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    A string of times is a human message, no different than picking up your phone and calling a a time service so that you can set the clock on your microwave.
    It still isn't a postal service because you and I can't send a message through it, even if it could be a postal service it doesn't have to be because it is military equipment and the military is constitutional.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It still isn't a postal service
    It's also not an army.

    The difference is that one of these two arguments is intentionally ridiculous to prove a point, while the other is sincere. Both arise from the concept that the Constitution means whatever we want it to mean, and that concepts should just be shoehorned in as we decide that some new, vast government power should be instated.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    It's also not an army.

    The difference is that one of these two arguments is intentionally ridiculous to prove a point, while the other is sincere. Both arise from the concept that the Constitution means whatever we want it to mean, and that concepts should just be shoehorned in as we decide that some new, vast government power should be instated.
    Armies have always used navigation equipment, it is a perfectly Constitutional military project.
    The space force would be an army and would be Constitutional if it were created with an act of Congress.
    Internet service would be a modern Postal service and perfectly Constitutional if the Post Office provided it.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Armies have always used navigation equipment
    Has nothing to do with anything.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The space force would be an army
    Why wouldn't the space force be a broccoli?


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    and would be Constitutional if it were created with an act of Congress.

    Internet service would be a modern Postal service and perfectly Constitutional if the Post Office provided it.
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthr...=1#post6642282
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Trump hasn't even been in 6 months, you can't call him a boondoggle President unless he has overseen a military boondoggle for at least a year or two.


  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Has nothing to do with anything.
    Yes it does, we are discussing GPS, GPS is constitutional because it is navigation equipment for the Constitutional military which Congress is empowered to equip.
    GPS is not a postal service because the public can't use it to send messages.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    Why wouldn't the space force be a broccoli?
    Because broccoli is a plant not a group of humans armed and organized for combat.




    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?523327-Trump-to-start-US-Space-Force&p=6642282&viewfull=1#post6642282
    Repeating yourself doesn't make you right.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #79
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    License Standard YouTube License

  23. #80
    A Space Force would be part of the Air Force, just like the Marine Corps is part of the Navy.

    Aside from helping with scientific space-related endeavors (launching satellites, helping with the retrieval of astronauts and equipment, etc.), the main goal wouldn't be much different from other branches of the military: the demonstration of total military superiority in a given area of operations.
    Although that area starts at the edge of space and goes over the KŠrmŠn line (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/K%C3%A1rm%C3%A1n_line) (62 miles above sea level), the superiority is accomplished by the same basic principle used elsewhere:
    Surveillance and reconnaissance: In this sense, the Space Force would be the ultimate "eye in the sky" -- it would give unmatched insight into positions of enemies as well as allies, using visualization that would be able to uncover hidden enemy locations and provide intel in situations of diminished visibility. This would be achieved through a combination of satellites and unmanned aerial reconnaissance vehicles that would send and coordinate their data in real-time with intelligence received from ground forces, creating a multi-dimensional layout of enemy position and activity, enabling effective and more accurate target acquisition. Acquired data would be further examined in the Space Force command centers on the ground, as well as in space, perhaps in the form of orbiting space stations.
    Logistics: The Space Force should be able to deliver ordnance, vehicles, supplies and personnel with an unmatched speed to any area of operations using special high-load thruster-powered space carriers that would dispatch resources from the orbit directly to any location on Earth. Sounds farfetched? For now, it does seem like something from a sci-fi movie, but it's definitely not beyond the realm of possibility. Vehicles that can land from space and launch into orbit at a moment's notice are a logical next step in the evolution of reusable space rockets (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reusable_launch_system). Those carriers would also be capable of delivering significant amounts of supplies necessary for rapid deployment of orbital structures and armaments. Speaking of which ...
    Orbital strikes: Engaging an enemy from the orbit wouldn't be limited to the distribution of troops and vehicles, but also by means of solar (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_gun) and laser cannons mounted on special satellites (https://www.popularmechanics.com/mil...ay-satellites/) and installations. Those would deliver devastating strikes using focused laser beams or sunlight that could melt or vaporize incoming missiles, airplanes as well as ground targets. Special equipment on the satellites would have to make them resistant to hacking and jamming since their unique destructive power and capabilities would turn them into a high-priority target for the enemy. A special defensive parameter would also need to be raised around these orbital structures, such as space minefields or even fighter-class spaceships. Their role would be to defend strategic points, organize into squadrons and assault enemy installations in space.
    Trade and travel routes
    As space technology evolves, the Space Force wouldn't be focused solely on Earth-based goals. Soon, celestial bodies in the solar system would become strategic targets.
    Wars wouldn't be fought exclusively for resources. Our solar system, not to mention the rest of universe, has ample amounts of them. The focus would be on holding strategic locations along trade and travel routes. Time is money, and whoever owns or controls the most lucrative, shortest routes, controls the space.
    To achieve this, countries would need to establish bases on asteroids, moons and locations on different planets. These would be used for providing fuel, entertainment and information for the troops, as well as passengers, and for generating substantial income for whoever owns them.
    Colonies in space
    That, in turn, would make them grow and evolve from mainly strategic structures into settlements. This particular scenario would require the Space Force to employ small and agile space fighter planes, both manned and unmanned, whose job would be to accompany and protect larger and slower transport vehicles. Those transports would carry colonists, supplies and tourists to locations in space, and protecting them would be vital. Once established, settlements and military installations would have to be able to fend for themselves by employing both passive (minefields) and active (cannon installations, automated sentries, etc.) defenses.
    Once a war inevitably explodes between the space nations, it would be fought on a new, interplanetary level, which would involve ultra-long range weapons, such as laser cannons, and heavy, long-range missiles that would fire from one planet to another, bringing havoc and misery to the new space age. After initial hostilities subsided and only space dust remained, the Space Force would have the somber task of helping to relocate refugees to their new homes on another planet, or a distant, uncharted asteroid.

    More at: https://www.morningstar.com/news/mar...look-like.html
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  25. #81

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    ... or, "Hey! This is a great way to Waste Money and make people think they are safe from the Terrible Secrets of Space!".



    Pak Chooie Unf
    I think the last time I saw this was at least 15 years ago.
    Protest the NSA! Send encrypted e-mails!
    My PGP Key
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  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The Air Farce didn't

    A1S8:
    1: The Congress shall have Power.......

    12: To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    13: To provide and maintain a Navy;
    14: To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;


    It is a space army or navy.

    What it should need is an act of Congress.
    This specifically says land force.
    ΟΥ ΓΑΡ ЄCΤΙΝ ЄξΟΥCΙΑ ЄΙ ΜΗ ΥΠΟ ΘЄΟΥ

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  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by GunnyFreedom View Post
    Voyager sent linguistic messages in all human languages.
    Assuming that they know how to operate a record player and have one. Box set was finally released for humans to purchase last year. https://paleofuture.gizmodo.com/you-...ord-1820774319 $98 for golden colored vinyl with book or $55 for the CD set.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-19-2018 at 12:06 PM.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  29. #85
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  30. #86
    https://www.rollcall.com/news/politi...ssional-action

    Trump’s Space Force Order Would Need Congressional Action

    President Donald Trump on Monday ordered the Pentagon to create a new service branch dedicated to military operations in space.

    “I’m hereby directing the Department of Defense and Pentagon to immediately begin the process necessary to establish a Space Force as the sixth branch of the armed forces,” Trump said at the White House, indicating that the proposed service would be completely separate from the other five existing services.

    Following Trump’s remarks, the White House separately issued a memorandum on space traffic, which did not mention Space Force.

    Trump’s directive comes almost a year after the House passed its version of the fiscal 2018 defense authorization act, which would have required the Pentagon to establish a “Space Corps” but still within the Department of the Air Force. The provision was ultimately stripped out of the bill during negotiations with the Senate and replaced with a provision demanding a report from the Pentagon on the efficacy of a Space Corps.

    Despite being commander in chief of the armed forces, Trump will need Congress’s help to establish a new space service.

    “The president can’t create a new military service on his own,” said Todd Harrison, director of the aerospace security project at the Center for Strategic and International Studies. “There’s going to have to be legislation.”

    Legislation would be necessary, for instance, to move authorities from existing service branches to Space Force. Currently, the Navy, Army and Air Force all conduct some space operations, which presumably would become Space Force’s responsibility. Space Force could also need legislation to create new positions and manpower policies for the service branch. And no Pentagon entity can operate without congressionally appropriated funding.

    “We are going to have the Air Force and we are going to have a Space Force,” he said. “Separate but equal.”

    Members of Congress from both parties who have been resistant to the Space Force idea from its conception spent Monday reminding the president that Space Force must first go through Capitol Hill before launching at the Pentagon.

    “Establishing a service branch requires congressional action,” Rep. Michael R. Turner, who chairs the House Armed Services Subcommittee on Tactical Air and Land Forces, said in a statement. “We still don’t know what a Space Force would do, who is going to be in it, or how much is it going to cost.”

    The Ohio Republican was the chief opponent of Space Corps last year in the House and was instrumental in demanding from the Pentagon a report on the need for a Space Corps.

    “The congressionally mandated report evaluating a Space Force to answer those questions is due in August,” Turner said. “After we get the report that we required as a legislative body and the President signed off on, then this issue can be appropriately evaluated for what’s best for national security.”

    Because Trump needs Congress to establish Space Force, his announcement effectively orders the Pentagon — which has pushed back on the Space Corps proposal at every turn — to draw up plans for the service.
    More at link.
    Donald Trump: 'What you're seeing and what you're reading is not what's happening'

    "Truth isn't truth"- Rudy Giuliani

    "China has total respect for Donald Trump and for Donald Trump's very, very large brain," - Donald Trump.

    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  31. #87
    The air force of course should never have been separated from the Army where they could get some real supervision . Everyone knows this
    Do something Danke

  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    This specifically says land force.
    It says "land and naval forces", the air force operates from the land and so will the space force.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    The air force of course should never have been separated from the Army where they could get some real supervision . Everyone knows this
    Their primary job is supporting the army but they wanted to concentrate on the low yield strategic bombing so they campaigned to be let loose of the army so it couldn't order them to do their job.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankindÖitís people I canít stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  35. #90

    The Final Frontier

    DACA S**thole Dreamers - Make America Great Again?

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