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Thread: Mark Sanford Loses SC Seat In Primary

  1. #61

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    That statement would have been fine if he had left it at that. He didn't leave it at that though.
    His audience was conservatives, you know the ones that were supporting people like Ted Cruz all the way up until the convention. Everything in there sold that one line to his audience.



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  3. #62

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    Quote Originally Posted by Superfluous Man View Post
    Apparently that's true. But another way you could say that is, "For libertarian-leaning candidates, being libertarian-leaning is not a winning strategy."
    This is a really dumb comment, you must not pay attention to Rand Paul at all. Rand brings out Trump's libertarian side and supports the President in reaching his libertarian goals. When Trump's goals aren't libertarian, Rand steps to the side, makes some mild policy criticisms without shouting them from the rooftops and lives to fight - and win - another day.

    All you do is come here and lie and say that Trump doesn't have any libertarian goals, which is complete horse $#@!.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #63

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    Quote Originally Posted by RonPaulGeorge&Ringo View Post
    Rand shot himself in the foot by opening the first debate attacking Trump for not being a party-line Republican. His father's credibility came from not being party line. He blew all that.
    You can play Monday morning QB all you want but just know that no campaign is perfect. Trump made many mistake himself but once the media latched unto him, it was a foregone conclusion that he would win the race. People underestimate the power the media still have on the average voter.

    Rand had very powerful forces working against him
    You can maintain power over people, as long as you give them something. Rob a man of everything, and that man will no longer be in your power. Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn

    Quote Originally Posted by LibertyEagle View Post
    Trust principles; not people.
    My Che avatar is my unique way of giving a big middle finger to the, the neocons, the globalists, imperialists and most importantly to the left and right political establishment who hate his guts till this day. My admiration for him ends where his anti imperialist pro communism ideology starts.

  5. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This is a really dumb comment, you must not pay attention to Rand Paul at all. Rand brings out Trump's libertarian side and supports the President in reaching his libertarian goals. When Trump's goals aren't libertarian, Rand steps to the side, makes some mild policy criticisms without shouting them from the rooftops and lives to fight - and win - another day.

    All you do is come here and lie and say that Trump doesn't have any libertarian goals, which is complete horse $#@!.
    I don't care much for SM, but Daniel McCarthy made pretty much the same case that he's making, which is that conservatives don't have any real issues with big government and debt.

    I should post this in it's own thread but nobody actually reads articles anyway. https://usa.spectator.co.uk/2018/06/...tarian-moment/
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  6. #65

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    This is a really dumb comment, you must not pay attention to Rand Paul at all. Rand brings out Trump's libertarian side and supports the President in reaching his libertarian goals. When Trump's goals aren't libertarian, Rand steps to the side, makes some mild policy criticisms without shouting them from the rooftops and lives to fight - and win - another day.

    All you do is come here and lie and say that Trump doesn't have any libertarian goals, which is complete horse $#@!.
    And by the way, Sanford was loyal to Ron Paul in 2007 when the GOP wanted his head. Your man Trump outed him. You might be best served by just staying out of this thread.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  7. #66

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    And by the way, Sanford was loyal to Ron Paul in 2007 when the GOP wanted his head. Your man Trump outed him. You might be best served by just staying out of this thread.
    I'm not going to stay out of a thread where dumb comments are being made.. You didn't see Rand running against Trump for his Senate seat and he is more libertarian than Sanford... like everybody else said that is just stupid regardless.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #67

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I'm not going to stay out of a thread where dumb comments are being made.. You didn't see Rand running against Trump for his Senate seat and he is more libertarian than Sanford... like everybody else said that is just stupid regardless.
    This just opens the door for attacks on Massie and Amash, too. They're a lot more vocal than Sanford was.

    This just sucks, and Trump is a giant $#@! for encouraging it.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  9. #68

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    This just opens the door for attacks on Massie and Amash, too. They're a lot more vocal than Sanford was.
    I don't think so, Massie has been very supportive of the President when he has done good things, and has been mildly critical when he has done bad things. Massie isn't "running against" Trump by any stretch.

    Amash may very well do better in his district if he runs against Trump. Have you seen his town halls?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  10. #69

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    What local (former) Sanford supporters were saying...

    “We need to recognize that we are at an inflection point in American politics,” a philosophical Sanford told supporters in a (surprise) exceedingly lengthy concession speech.

    The former two-term governor of South Carolina went on to bemoan that his values hadn’t changed, they just didn’t “sell well in this particular election.”

    Really?

    Sanford saying his core values haven’t changed is downright comical. This news site has written numerous articles over the years chronicling Sanford’s unfortunate evolution into a shill for the #NeverTrump “Republican” establishment.

    It finally caught up with him …
    ...
    https://www.fitsnews.com/2018/06/12/...-mark-sanford/
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  11. #70

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    What local (former) Sanford supporters were saying...

    Like you (and I) said in the thread last year it wasn't a good strategy going after Trump. I said in the other thread I thought he might run for the LP nomination. Johnson actually asked him as his first choice over Weld to be the VP. Given the tack Sanford took, that seems more likely now. But it is ridiculous Fitnews calling Sanford a shill for the Republican establishment. I'm pretty sure Paul Ryan and Boehner don't agree.

    FWIW


  12. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Like you (and I) said in the thread last year it wasn't a good strategy going after Trump. I said in the other thread I thought he might run for the LP nomination. Johnson actually asked him as his first choice over Weld to be the VP. Given the tack Sanford took, that seems more likely now. But it is ridiculous Fitnews calling Sanford a shill for the Republican establishment. I'm pretty sure Paul Ryan and Boehner don't agree.

    FWIW

    Looks like their freedom meter is broke..
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #72

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Like you (and I) said in the thread last year it wasn't a good strategy going after Trump. I said in the other thread I thought he might run for the LP nomination. Johnson actually asked him as his first choice over Weld to be the VP. Given the tack Sanford took, that seems more likely now. But it is ridiculous Fitnews calling Sanford a shill for the Republican establishment. I'm pretty sure Paul Ryan and Boehner don't agree.

    FWIW

    Yeah, I'm not in agreement with FITS News on that. But Sanford's attacks on Trump have aided the neoconservative establishment agenda, albeit not intentionally on Sanford's part.

    Unless one buys into the supposition that Sanford is more of a libertarian-neocon. One has to wonder about his former "aides" that are arguably as hard core neocon as Lindsey Graham. And yes, I am talking about Nikki Haley and Jon Lerner.

    Advising Haley then – and now – is Jewish neoconservative pollster and political consultant Jon Lerner (below, far left), who certainly appears to be whoring Haley out politically on the national stage every bit as aggressively as he whored out another former S.C. governor – Mark Sanford.
    ...
    https://www.fitsnews.com/2017/04/09/...on-this-puppy/
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #73

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I don't think so, Massie has been very supportive of the President when he has done good things, and has been mildly critical when he has done bad things. Massie isn't "running against" Trump by any stretch.

    Amash may very well do better in his district if he runs against Trump. Have you seen his town halls?
    Sanford voted for Trump's agenda 89% of the time.

    Amash has to get through the primary. You may recall that when they couldn't primary him out, they tried to redistrict him out. That seat is now a prime candidate for a pro-Trump thumper in a primary, then to be taken by a Democrat.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  15. #74

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    One has to wonder about his former "aides" that are arguably as hard core neocon as Lindsey Graham.
    His long time Chief of Staff was Tom Davis who was the most visible South Carolina Ron Paul supporter.

  16. #75

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Gonna say this, just because a strategy did not work doesn't mean the strategy is wrong. Maybe given the time, his personal, his personal experience, the mood of the country, the help from the media, he was the unbeatable candidate in the race? still doesn't dismiss the idea that attacking his credibility was a good strategy.
    I've said this previously, but it bears repeating. The problem with Rand's strategy wasn't that he failed to beat Trump. Nobody beat Trump. It was his year. Rand couldn't have done anything to gain the nomination, it was Trump's from his first speech. The problem with Rand's strategy was that not only did he fail to capitalize on the movement his father built, he failed to get out of the single digits in polling. That is, by definition, a bad strategy. Rand zigged when he should have zagged. He was terrified of being called a racist or an extremist or whatever, so he tried to court favor with the mainstream and ended up alienating everyone in the process. His ill-timed, ineffectual attack against Trump was just part in parcel with a bad strategy. He didn't read the writing on the wall.


    I think Trump tapped in something emotional in people to the point they were more invested in him as a person than any thing he said about his policies. This is one place where I think libertarians can learn a thing or two from Trump. They need to stop being policy wonks and realize that the masses need more than anything a father figure, a leader, someone to inspire and give them hope. Trump did this better than anyone in the race and he was rewarded with the victory.
    I agree with this partially, but I think that policy had a lot to do with it. If Trump had the exact same personality but talked a lot about how mass immigration and NAFTA were great things, he would have lost. Trump's persona benefited him greatly, but so did his stated goals and we're seeing the rise of similar ideas throughout the West.



    It is not nonsense, wikileak showed the strategy of the elite was to push and promote Trump over all the other republican candidates and they did this via a non conventional, reverse psychology sort of way. Think, addition by subtraction and it worked. The people in large masses fell for him. Wrong again, a strategy that loses is not automatically a bad strategy, strategies are relative and the best strategy is the one that gives you the best chance to win regardless of whether it nets you the win.
    Which leak? I recall a leak where it was clear that Hillary's camp wanted Trump to win the nom because they thought he'd be easy to defeat-something I don't doubt the media agreed with. The media pushing Trump and making him look like a martyr when attacked is a different narrative and not something that happened last election cycle.

    I think your problem is that you underestimate your enemy, you see them as one dimensional idiots like the people who vote. They are not, they are experienced world conquerors who have different methods to trick the average voter into voting for one of their own whilst they believed they are voting against the establishment.
    No I don't. Politicians are often dim, but they at least posess animal cunning of some sort. People who stay in power long are often quite smart. It's no easy feat.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  17. #76

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    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Moron? I understand how what I said hurts your feelings but if it makes you feel any better, my criticism came from the heart. Also, I don't hold it against you that you support Trump. Loads of good, intelligent people fell for his con. And yes, I know my writing skills aren't the best, my sentence structure/syntax, grammar, spelling could all use some improvement and it is something I have always struggled with. Also, I can't proofread to save my life. You really don't have to tell me about it, I am well aware of it and I work on it every single day of my life. And no, I won't make the excuse that it's because English is my second language, I know loads of people who did not speak English at all before they arriving to the states who have better command of the English language than me.
    Again, for the third time, show me a time where I praised Trump in a sycophantic or overly myopic way. Do this or I have been proven right, as all can see.



    Its the vibe I get from reading your many posts of RPF, deal with it.
    Ah, "vibes". Yes, such great epistemological rigor.


    Lets just agree to disagree here cos I think tax cuts, spending increase etc appeal to the common man too. I think what you are trying to say here is that Trump introduced new populist policies to the campaign like immigration and border wall security. That I can agree with you on.
    Tax cuts can be populist but you have to make the emotional argument, not heady economic ones.



    Calm down man, I wasn't talking about ethnic cleansing either. Why would you think that is what I was thinking in my post? That wasn't a typo, I actually meant to say ethnic leaning not ethnic cleansing.


    I know enough about you in the area that matter to me. Your opinion on statecraft is one area I don't particularly care about. Also, I qualified my statement with the word "quite" which must mean something different to me than it means to you
    You are a communist apologist who cheers when millions are murdered by leftist governments. How do I know this? Well, it's just a vibe I get. I know enough about you in that area to make that claim. I mean, look at your avatar. I like this new standard, no reason to demonstrate validity or soundness anymore. So much easier.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  18. #77

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    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    I've said this previously, but it bears repeating. The problem with Rand's strategy wasn't that he failed to beat Trump. Nobody beat Trump. It was his year. Rand couldn't have done anything to gain the nomination, it was Trump's from his first speech. The problem with Rand's strategy was that not only did he fail to capitalize on the movement his father built, he failed to get out of the single digits in polling. That is, by definition, a bad strategy. Rand zigged when he should have zagged. He was terrified of being called a racist or an extremist or whatever, so he tried to court favor with the mainstream and ended up alienating everyone in the process. His ill-timed, ineffectual attack against Trump was just part in parcel with a bad strategy. He didn't read the writing on the wall.
    Oh Please, this is such flawed reasoning, save the high horse all knowing political operative bullsht. Rand didn't read the writing on the wall because nobody could see it, neither could you. You're only claiming to now because you've experienced it the successful way Trump did it, guess what? We all experienced it. Its so easy to say that Rand (or any candidate) should've been more like Trump before Trump himself even entered the race. The only way to be the anti-Trump was to NOT act like Trump.

    By your logic, Cruz and Carson's time as the anti-Trump was pure genius and good political "strategy", because good strategy automatically equals success right? No, Cruz and Carson were LUCKY. Everybody who has witnessed the primaries in the past knows that voters and media flirt with a flavor of the week, they spend some time at the top of the polls and whenever the voters get bored or they were successfully attacked, the next one comes up. 2012 Santorum got LUCKY and in a sense Bachmann, Gingrich and Ron also got LUCKY, or did you think Ron Paul actually had 21% of the republican party as his base? lol, gtfo~


    Rand ran a good traditional campaign, which at one point he was considered a top tier candidate having spent some time at the TOP of the polls before Trump entered.


    If you're so good at reading the writing on the wall, run a campaign and show us all how its done. Its that easy right? read and run. Go for it boy
    RPF's very own forum member Brett85 is running for Kansas state rep 113th district.
    Please donate what you can : http://brettfairchild.com/donate/

    See his pitch thread here.
    https://tinyurl.com/ycagr3tz

    Don't pay the media to attack Rand
    Every time you click on the attack articles, you are literally paying them to attack Rand or other liberty officials.

    be ACTIVE, be EFFECTIVE, be ORGANIZED, be STRATEGIC, be VICTORIOUS.

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  19. #78

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    I am thinking Sanford has lost interest . Cannot blame anyone for that . I hated to see DeMint go .
    Do something Danke

  20. #79

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    Quote Originally Posted by oyarde View Post
    I am thinking Sanford has lost interest . Cannot blame anyone for that . I hated to see DeMint go .
    Demint is a guy I'd like to see get involved with the Libertarians.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  21. #80

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    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    His long time Chief of Staff was Tom Davis who was the most visible South Carolina Ron Paul supporter.
    Yeah, Tom Davis is good.

    Quote Originally Posted by eleganz View Post
    Oh Please, this is such flawed reasoning, save the high horse all knowing political operative bullsht. Rand didn't read the writing on the wall because nobody could see it, neither could you.
    ...
    Not to interrupt and go on a tangent, but Dave Brat ran an anti-establishment campaign and took out Eric Cantor. His platform was essentially Ron Paul with an America-first twist, including opposition to mass immigration and the US Chamber of Commerce. That was in 2014. That was an indicator, from a position standpoint, of what was going to be successful.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  22. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Yeah, Tom Davis is good.

    Not to interrupt and go on a tangent, but Dave Brat ran an anti-establishment campaign and took out Eric Cantor. His platform was essentially Ron Paul with an America-first twist, including opposition to mass immigration and the US Chamber of Commerce. That was in 2014. That was an indicator, from a position standpoint, of what was going to be successful.
    It's time for people here to come to terms with the fact that not only is "open borders" an anti-liberty position, it is an extreme anti-liberty position - every bit as extreme as confessing allegiance to full-blown Communism.

    And let's face it - that is the genesis of every single objection to Trump on this board: people who want open borders more than they want the people of America to be free.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  23. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    And let's face it - that is the genesis of every single objection to Trump on this board: people who want open borders more than they want the people of America to be free.
    Either you're wrong, or I'm an open borders proponent.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  24. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Either you're wrong, or I'm an open borders proponent.
    You and Zippy don't count.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  25. #84

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    It's time for people here to come to terms with the fact that not only is "open borders" an anti-liberty position, it is an extreme anti-liberty position - every bit as extreme as confessing allegiance to full-blown Communism.

    And let's face it - that is the genesis of every single objection to Trump on this board: people who want open borders more than they want the people of America to be free.
    So you believe there are no legitimate criticisms of Trump, despite the fact that he is dropping bombs at an unprecedented rate, continues to support Saudi Arabia, who, alongside the US, are committing war crimes in Yemen and exporting their salafist ideology across the world. He blindly supports Israel and has elevated many Israel-firsters in his admin. like Haley, Kushner, and Bolton. He ripped up the Iran deal, one of the few decent things obama did. He appointed a torturer to head the CIA and as his Sec. of State. He has not drawn down the empire even a little bit in his first 17 months, (he will probably renege his comments on military exercises with South Korea after his advisers give him a talking to.) He expanded military spending by 151 billion dollars (this INCREASE is way more expensive than evil communist demoncrat Bernie Sanders free college plan.) He has delegated much of his commander in chief responsibilities to the pentagon.

    Ahh forget it. I'm just scratching the surface and I'm already tired. You are so so right, the only way you can be against Trump is if you want completely unfettered immigration. Nah, you are either being intentionally disingenuous or are just plain stupid. I await the impending logical fallacies and HILRY WOULDA BEEN WERSE.

  26. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by Influenza View Post
    So you believe there are no legitimate criticisms of Trump,
    Strawman right out the gate, you are a dishonest person and will receive no other response from me than to call out that dishonesty. Please go $#@! yourself, $#@!.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  27. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Strawman right out the gate, you are a dishonest person and will receive no other response from me than to call out that dishonesty. Please go $#@! yourself, $#@!.
    It's not really a strawman though, because you said :
    ...the genesis of every single objection to Trump on this board: people who want open borders more than they want the people of America to be free.
    Clearly that's not the case.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  28. #87

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    Strawman right out the gate, you are a dishonest person and will receive no other response from me than to call out that dishonesty. Please go $#@! yourself, $#@!.
    Lmao, you are a $#@!in dumbass.

    And let's face it - that is the genesis of every single objection to Trump on this board: people who want open borders more than they want the people of America to be free.
    Do you know what genesis means? You said that every objection to Trump originates in people wanting open borders, a position you find akin to communism. You clearly do not find those sorts of objections to Trump legitimate, and you said every single objection to Trump stems from that anti-liberty position. Do you have any understanding of the english language? Your idiotic grandstanding just makes you look even more stupid. Get lost retard

  29. #88

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    It's not really a strawman though, because you said :

    Clearly that's not the case.
    The two statements are not at all inconsistent with each other. On this board in particular, the objections are all but exclusively about open borders.

    That is not even closely equivalent to saying there is no legitimate criticisms. They just aren't the reasons why users on this board object to him. They are goal-seeking open borders Marxists and it's no surprise that they are so upset that someone calls out their number, since deception is essential to their trade.

    Act like a Marxist, don't act suprised when someone offers you a free helicopter ride.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  30. #89

    Default

    Libertarians are just happy being losers because they have made it into some kind of virtue. That's why they have faded and will continue to fade. To the rest of y'all who haven't thrown in the towel: Rally behind people like Corey Stewart. He isn't perfect but at least he has balls.

  31. #90

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    The two statements are not at all inconsistent with each other. On this board in particular, the objections are all but exclusively about open borders.

    That is not even closely equivalent to saying there is no legitimate criticisms. They just aren't the reasons why users on this board object to him. They are goal-seeking open borders Marxists and it's no surprise that they are so upset that someone calls out their number, since deception is essential to their trade.

    Act like a Marxist, don't act suprised when someone offers you a free helicopter ride.
    Oh I see - these comments are actually just projection on your part. Your position on immigration is one of the few things you have in common with Trump - and the only thing you feel capable to justify from a liberty perspective. I know most of you trumptards avoid threads about Trump's foreign policy, except for the handful of occasions where he said something non-interventionist, and therefore you don't see the very common foreign-policy based objections to Trump. So I guess your comments could be coming from a place of cognitive dissonance and ignorance as opposed to dishonesty. Sorry I didn't see that earlier
    Last edited by Influenza; 06-14-2018 at 03:18 PM.

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