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Thread: Wells Fargo Bans Cryptocurrency Purchases On Its Credit Cards

  1. #1

    Default Wells Fargo Bans Cryptocurrency Purchases On Its Credit Cards

    https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/0...s-credit-cards

    Wells Fargo customers hoping to use their credit cards to buy Bitcoin will have to look elsewhere. While putting a prohibition on such cryptocurrency purchases for now, Wells Fargo "will continue to evaluate the issue as the market evolves," Shelley Miller, a spokeswoman, said in an emailed statement. Wells Fargo joins Citigroup, JPMorgan Chase and Bank of America, which limited cryptocurrency purchases on their credit cards in February, citing market volatility and credit risks. Lenders have said they're worried they'd be left on the hook if a borrower lost money on a digital currency bet and couldn't repay. A study conducted by LendEDU last year found that roughly 18 percent of Bitcoin investors used a credit card to fund the purchases. Of those, 22 percent couldn't pay off their balance after buying the digital coin.
    So, what happens when it isnt just Cryptocurrency, but they decree by Corporate Policy other aspects of HOW you spend your own money? What happens when you are not allowed to buy Guns or Pot or Non GMO Foods or Bacon? What happens when they start "customizing" their restrictions so it is okay for that person to purchase something but it is NOT okay for you to purchase the exact same thing? Is that not a form of a Corporate Overlord?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2

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    Using a credit card or any other form of borrrowing to purchase any investment is a bad idea- the return (minus tax on gains) has to be higher than the interest you are paying on the credit card to be worthwhile. With most charging 17% rates of interest right now, you need like a 25% return just to break even.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  4. #3

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    Dumped Wells Fargo long ago. So I don't really care. My personal belief is that everyone should pull their money from them and put it in a local bank or credit union.
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

  5. #4

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    Fellls Wargo. . . never hoid of 'em

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/0...s-credit-cards



    So, what happens when it isnt just Cryptocurrency, but they decree by Corporate Policy other aspects of HOW you spend your own money? What happens when you are not allowed to buy Guns or Pot or Non GMO Foods or Bacon? What happens when they start "customizing" their restrictions so it is okay for that person to purchase something but it is NOT okay for you to purchase the exact same thing? Is that not a form of a Corporate Overlord?
    No. It's an example of how free markets work.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Using a credit card or any other form of borrrowing to purchase any investment is a bad idea- the return (minus tax on gains) has to be higher than the interest you are paying on the credit card to be worthwhile. With most charging 17% rates of interest right now, you need like a 25% return just to break even.
    Paying interest on any credit card is a bad idea yes . Credit cards are unsecured debt with high interest with an interest right high enough to cover those who do not pay . So I see no real business reason there would be exclusions to purchases .
    Do something Danke

  8. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    No. It's an example of how free markets work.
    Im confused, being told what you can and can not buy by a corporation / bank is Free Market? I see Free Market solution in "dont use Wells Fargo", but are you saying Free Market is to be told what you cant purchase? Which is it?
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Im confused, being told what you can and can not buy by a corporation / bank is Free Market? I see Free Market solution in "dont use Wells Fargo", but are you saying Free Market is to be told what you cant purchase? Which is it?
    They are not telling you that you can't buy, just that they will not loan you money to buy it. it says credit cards.



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  11. #9

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    Is this new news or old news? I thought you already couldn't buy crypto on credit card... You CAN use your Wells Fargo bank account or debit card to buy crypto..

    But even if they banned that, it would be easy to get around.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Is this new news or old news? I thought you already couldn't buy crypto on credit card... You CAN use your Wells Fargo bank account or debit card to buy crypto..

    But even if they banned that, it would be easy to get around.
    Exactly, you can use cash at their bank to buy it, just not debt. Articles state that the default rate for crypto purchases was about 22%! sounds like a wise decision on their end.

  13. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Im confused, being told what you can and can not buy by a corporation / bank is Free Market? I see Free Market solution in "dont use Wells Fargo", but are you saying Free Market is to be told what you cant purchase? Which is it?
    If a certain type of purchase is likely to lead to default, should a lender be able to restrict loans for such purchases? Or should the government require them to make the loan? Which is the "free market" at work?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  14. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Is this new news or old news? I thought you already couldn't buy crypto on credit card... You CAN use your Wells Fargo bank account or debit card to buy crypto..

    But even if they banned that, it would be easy to get around.
    This article is from February:

    https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...n-credit-cards

    Bitcoin Ban Expands Across Credit Cards as Big U.S. Banks Recoil

    A growing number of big U.S. credit-card issuers are deciding they don’t want to finance a falling knife.

    JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. said they’re halting purchases of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies on their credit cards. JPMorgan, enacting the ban Saturday, doesn’t want the credit risk associated with the transactions, company spokeswoman Mary Jane Rogers said.

    Bank of America started declining credit card transactions with known crypto exchanges on Friday. The policy applies to all personal and business credit cards, according to a memo. It doesn’t affect debit cards, said company spokeswoman Betty Riess.

    And late Friday, Citigroup said it too will halt purchases of cryptocurrencies on its credit cards. “We will continue to review our policy as this market evolves,” company spokeswoman Jennifer Bombardier said.

    Allowing purchases of cryptocurrencies can create big headaches for lenders, which can be left on the hook if a borrower bets wrong and can’t repay. There’s also the risk that thieves will abuse cards that were purloined or based on stolen identities, turning them into crypto hoards. Banks also are required by regulators to monitor customer transactions for signs of money laundering -- which isn’t as easy once dollars are converted into digital coins.

    Bitcoin has lost more than half its value since Dec. 18, falling below $8,000 on Friday for the first time since November. The drop occurred amid escalating regulatory threats around the world, fear of price manipulation and Facebook Inc.’s ban on ads for cryptocurrencies and initial coin offerings.

    Now, cutting off card purchases could exacerbate those pressures by making it more difficult for enthusiasts to buy into the market. Capital One Financial Corp. and Discover Financial Services previously said they aren’t supporting the transactions.

    Mastercard Inc. said this week that cross-border volumes on its network -- a measure of customer spending abroad -- have risen 22 percent this year, fueled partly by clients using their cards to buy digital currencies. The firm warned that the trend already was beginning to slow as cryptocurrency prices fell.

    Discover Chief Executive Officer David Nelms was dismissive of financing cryptocurrency transactions during an interview last month, noting that could change depending on customer demand. For now, “it’s crooks that are trying to get money out of China or wherever,” he said of those trying to use the currencies.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  15. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Im confused, being told what you can and can not buy by a corporation / bank is Free Market? I see Free Market solution in "dont use Wells Fargo", but are you saying Free Market is to be told what you cant purchase? Which is it?
    You are right - free market solution is to use another method of funding the purchases. In a free market, they would have every right to limit their risk by refusing to extend credit for any ol' reason they choose.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  16. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    If a certain type of purchase is likely to lead to default, should a lender be able to restrict loans for such purchases? Or should the government require them to make the loan? Which is the "free market" at work?
    Freedom is unrestricted, and sometimes, that includes letting people screw themselves. This sounds to me like restricting peoples freedom to protect banks, not people.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  17. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Freedom is unrestricted, and sometimes, that includes letting people screw themselves. This sounds to me like restricting peoples freedom to protect banks, not people.
    In a free market, both sides must agree before any transaction goes through. One does not dictate to the other. You are free to seek money from another source if you don't like my terms.

    Let's make it personal. If you tend to not pay back money to me, should I be forced to lend you $100 again? So you can be free to borrow whatever you want? Or does the freedom apply to me and allow me to decide who I prefer to loan money to?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  18. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Freedom is unrestricted, and sometimes, that includes letting people screw themselves. This sounds to me like restricting peoples freedom to protect banks, not people.
    They are not restricted from screwing themselves over WITH THEIR OWN MONEY. You must be trolling, nice one.



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  20. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    In a free market, both sides must agree before any transaction goes through. One does not dictate to the other. You are free to seek money from another source if you don't like my terms.

    Let's make it personal. If you tend to not pay back money to me, should I be forced to lend you $100 again? So you can be free to borrow whatever you want? Or does the freedom apply to me and allow me to decide who I prefer to loan money to?
    Where your argument fails is that the banks don't loan money and there's literally no comparison between you loaning someone cash out of your own pocket and a bank credit card. Banks issue you your own credit and then charge you for it. It's not the bank's credit that is issued. It is your credit. If someone wishes to default on their own credit, why can't they?
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  21. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    Where your argument fails is that the banks don't loan money and there's literally no comparison between you loaning someone cash out of your own pocket and a bank credit card. Banks issue you your own credit and then charge you for it. It's not the bank's credit that is issued. It is your credit. If someone wishes to default on their own credit, why can't they?
    They allow you to do it with a debit card which is using your money. They don't let you do it with a credit card which is you borrowing money. You seem to have the two confused.

    the banks don't loan money
    Banks issue you your own credit and then charge you for it.
    So if I borrow $500,000 from them to buy a house, they can just take the money out of the $10,000 I have in my savings account.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 06-13-2018 at 11:57 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  22. #19

    Default

    The day could come when the government deems it illegal for sellers to accept bitcoin as payment.

  23. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Freedom is unrestricted, and sometimes, that includes letting people screw themselves. This sounds to me like restricting peoples freedom to protect banks, not people.
    The bankers have freedom too. In this example, the bankers are protecting their property.

    Both sides of the loan must agree to the terms.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  24. #21

    Default

    Just don't use credit cards. Period. They're the payday loans of the middle class.

    Debit cards are "okay". Not perfect, the average person still spends more using plastic (credit or debit), but at least you don't run the risk of spending money you don't have.

  25. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
    Just don't use credit cards. Period. They're the payday loans of the middle class.

    Debit cards are "okay". Not perfect, the average person still spends more using plastic (credit or debit), but at least you don't run the risk of spending money you don't have.
    Using credit cards is fine- just be sure to pay off the balance at the end of every month so you can avoid the interest. Also avoid ones with annual fees.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  26. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Using credit cards is fine- just be sure to pay off the balance at the end of every month so you can avoid the interest. Also avoid ones with annual fees.

  27. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Using credit cards is fine- just be sure to pay off the balance at the end of every month so you can avoid the interest. Also avoid ones with annual fees.
    There is no point in using credit cards if you pay them off every month.

    Stay away from them. They are the Devil's work.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV



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  29. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
    So his basic argument (besides agreeing with me on paying them off on time) is that you can't get rich using them and that the rewards they offer aren't that great. Nobody claims you will get rich by using them. It is more a convenience thing. Like anything else, use wisely.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  30. #26

    Default

    Stay the hell away from credit cards.

    "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

    If you have credit cards, you will use them. And the chances are very good you will use them bigly.

    Zippy knows this (he must be a banker or a friend of the Fed lol)

    Live the way your grandparents did - without credit. You will be happier.

    What do you think creates wealth faster... income or investment? Answer: income.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

  31. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamesiv1 View Post
    Stay the hell away from credit cards.

    "Neither a borrower nor a lender be."

    If you have credit cards, you will use them. And the chances are very good you will use them bigly.

    Zippy knows this (he must be a banker or a friend of the Fed lol)

    Live the way your grandparents did - without credit. You will be happier.

    What do you think creates wealth faster... income or investment? Answer: income.
    Living below your means- spending less than you take in. Then you invest that. That is how you create wealth. Use interest in your favor by earning and compounding it- not by borrowing and paying interest and letting that compound.

    Using credit to spend money you don't have is not a good thing. Except maybe for buying a home.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  32. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    They allow you to do it with a debit card which is using your money. They don't let you do it with a credit card which is you borrowing money. You seem to have the two confused.
    No, it is not borrowing money. The bank creates that accounting entry the moment you use the card. It is YOU that creates the credit, not the bank, and then sign the receipt pledging to pay back your own credit (your own future labor, really) but with interest. You frame it as if the bank has a big pool of money sitting there that is allocated to your credit card purchase. You know that's not how it works. A bank has no credit. A bank is a piece of paper sitting in a filing cabinet in an office in Delaware. Only PEOPLE that can labor have credit.

    So if I borrow $500,000 from them to buy a house, they can just take the money out of the $10,000 I have in my savings account.
    Well, first, that $10k just created $90k of accounting entry of the $500k total. Then the bank created the other $410k accounting entry when you signed the paperwork. Signing bank paperwork isn't about pledging to repay. It's about authorizing the bank to issue you your own credit with their terms attached. You can issue your own credit...well, at least if 99.99% of the population wasn't brainwashed into believing the nonsense that you push.

    A wise man once told me that my signature is the most valuable thing I own. For the record, I don't 100% hate banking or credit use. It has its function. Equifax says the all caps name has a stellar credit score. What I 100% hate is the MASSIVE DISINFORMATION that makes up what modern banking is and your posts are rife with it.
    Last edited by devil21; 06-13-2018 at 01:01 PM.
    "Let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    The entire internet is the domain of paid shills and bots. If you don't know this by now....

    Israel, under control of the Crown and, ultimately, the Vatican, own the USA. If you don't know this by now....

    Talk to people about liberty. You won't find it on websites, you won't find it in politicians.

    Visiting the Outer Banks of NC?
    Outer Banks NC Fishing Boat Rentals

  33. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by devil21 View Post
    No, it is not borrowing money. The bank creates that accounting entry the moment you use the card. It is YOU that creates the credit, not the bank, and then sign the receipt pledging to pay back your own credit (your own future labor, really) but with interest. You frame it as if the bank has a big pool of money sitting there that is allocated to your credit card purchase. You know that's not how it works.



    Well, first, that $10k just created $90k of accounting entry of the $500k total. Then the bank created the other $410k accounting entry when you signed the paperwork. Signing bank paperwork isn't about pledging to repay. It's about authorizing the bank to issue you your own credit with their terms attached. You can issue your own credit...well, at least if 99.99% of the population wasn't brainwashed into believing the nonsense that you push.
    We have gone though this many times so I won't try to explain it again for you.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  34. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Living below your means- spending less than you take in. Then you invest that. That is how you create wealth. Use interest in your favor by earning and compounding it- not by borrowing and paying interest and letting that compound.
    And you will have a whole lot more money to invest if you're not paying off debt. That's my point.

    No debt means more net income to invest. More net income means more investment. But it starts with income.

    If all your income is going to food, shelter and paying off debt.... What can you invest? That's where tons of US Americans are today.
    1. Don't lie.
    2. Don't cheat.
    3. Don't steal.
    4. Don't kill.
    5. Don't commit adultery.
    6. Don't covet what your neighbor has, especially his wife.
    7. Honor your father and mother.
    8. Remember the Sabbath and keep it Holy.
    9. Don’t use your Higher Power's name in vain, or anyone else's.
    10. Do unto others as you would have them do to you.

    "For the love of money is the root of all evil..." -- I Timothy 6:10, KJV

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