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Thread: Nick Freitas 2018 | Liberty Rising in Virginia

  1. #31

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    If you cannot find it in your brain or heart to prefer your countrymen over any arbitrary foreign national who shows up,
    False dichotomy, Hobson's choice.

    But not only that, all people are equal in the eyes of the law, since all people have natural rights.


    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    What is to come will not be comfortable for you or anyone else who can't bring yourself to align with the principles enumerated in the Declaration of Independence.
    What kind of crack are you smoking? What are you even talking about?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    False dichotomy, Hobson's choice.

    But not only that, all people are equal in the eyes of the law, since all people have natural rights.


    What kind of crack are you smoking? What are you even talking about?
    I'm saying we the people intend to exercise our sovereign power to secure our border as a means to securing our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    And you will not stop us. If you try, you'll be steamrolled just like everyone else and it will not be pleasant at all.

    Get on board or get out of the way, those are the only options on the table for the forseeable future.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams



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  5. #33

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    I'm saying we the people intend to exercise our sovereign power to secure our border as a means to securing our rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    And you will not stop us. If you try, you'll be steamrolled just like everyone else and it will not be pleasant at all.

    Get on board or get out of the way, those are the only options on the table for the forseeable future.
    You're smoking some serious crack. I highly suggest you get a mental evaluation at your earliest convenience:







    and PS - no one said anything about unsecured borders.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You're smoking some serious crack. I highly suggest you get a mental evaluation at your earliest convenience:







    and PS - no one said anything about unsecured borders.

    It's called the will of the people, Matt, and if you understood that better you may have been somewhat successful at your career.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  7. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Only militarily. The government has no authority to have anything to do with the economy really, other than coining money and determining weights and measures.


    Besides there are few things the government can do that are more anti-freedom than tell me who I can and cannot do business with, or raising my taxes, or penalizing me for doing business with certain people.
    So you would be happy to be conquered by a hostile foreign power as long as it was economic warfare that was used?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    False dichotomy, Hobson's choice.

    But not only that, all people are equal in the eyes of the law, since all people have natural rights.
    But they don't all have citizenship rights in America.
    If you think the foreigners are going to treat you as an equal and look out for your interests as much as they do their fellow citizens/subjects you are sadly mistaken, even those that don't actively plot against you seek their own interests and their shared interests with their peers ahead of yours.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  9. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    It's called the will of the people
    Seeing as the US is not monolithic or homogeneous that concept only really exists in abstract. And since we are not a democracy, but a Republic, the "will of the people" only extends so far as to not violate the rights of other individuals.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  10. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    So you would be happy to be conquered by a hostile foreign power as long as it was economic warfare that was used?
    In a free market it is almost impossible to wage economic "warfare".
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  11. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    But they don't all have citizenship rights in America.
    Citizenship isn't a right, it's a privilege. Government cannot grant rights.

    If you are born here then you are granted certain privileges, including the privilege of voting. If you move here and become a citizen then you get those privileges too.


    But individual rights still exist whether or not one is a citizen.

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    even those that don't actively plot against you seek their own interests and their shared interests with their peers ahead of yours.
    Every human seeks their own interests regardless of national origins. Not sure what your point is.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  12. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In a free market it is almost impossible to wage economic "warfare".
    The world is not a free market, if you are claiming it is impossible to wage economic warfare against a free market then you are just wrong.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  14. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Citizenship isn't a right, it's a privilege. Government cannot grant rights.

    If you are born here then you are granted certain privileges, including the privilege of voting. If you move here and become a citizen then you get those privileges too.


    But individual rights still exist whether or not one is a citizen.
    There are rights that come from citizenship beyond those that come from being human, I have a right to be in America but foreigners don't for one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Every human seeks their own interests regardless of national origins. Not sure what your point is.
    Your fellow Americans share interests with you that foreigners do not, foreigners should not be treated as no different than Americans for your own good.
    Last edited by Swordsmyth; 06-21-2018 at 11:06 PM.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  15. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Seeing as the US is not monolithic or homogeneous that concept only really exists in abstract. And since we are not a democracy, but a Republic, the "will of the people" only extends so far as to not violate the rights of other individuals.
    If your principles dictate a situation where Americans cannot control who enters the USA, your principles are immoral and anti-Constitutional, and it's no wonder you haven't been able to do anything worthwhile in your career.
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams

  16. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    The world is not a free market, if you are claiming it is impossible to wage economic warfare against a free market then you are just wrong.
    Maybe maybe not. But it is anti freedom for the government to tax us and tell us who we can't do business with. Do you hate freedom?
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  17. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There are rights that come from citizenship beyond those that come from being human, I have a right to be in America but foreigners don't for one.
    You are confusing rights and privileges.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Your fellow Americans share interests with you that foreigners do not, foreigners should not be treated as no different than Americans for your own good.
    Ok, that's just subtly racist. Most foreigners I've met come over here to vacation or to work hard and build a better life. Even the illegals are mostly coming here to work hard because they don't have that opportunity where they come from.

    I agree that doesn't necessarily mean the government should just let anyone in either.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  18. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by thoughtomator View Post
    If your principles dictate a situation where Americans cannot control who enters the USA, your principles are immoral and anti-Constitutional, and it's no wonder you haven't been able to do anything worthwhile in your career.
    Well, you obviously know nothing about what I've accomplished, but let's just say, a lot more than you.

    Some people see the issue as property rights, people shouldn't be allowed to trespass. Others see it as an economic issue where the government has no authority to set the supply and price curves of labor. I agree with both which I realize is also a bit of a contradiction.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  19. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You are confusing rights and privileges.
    You are reducing rights to privileges.


    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Ok, that's just subtly racist.
    No it isn't, I didn't say "brown people" or "black people" or "yellow people", I said foreigners, I don't care if they are blue eyed blondes or green eyed red heads, until the assimilate they will share interests with their native countrymen that you do not and they won't share interests with you that Americans do.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Most foreigners I've met come over here to vacation or to work hard and build a better life. Even the illegals are mostly coming here to work hard because they don't have that opportunity where they come from.

    I agree that doesn't necessarily mean the government should just let anyone in either.
    In the first place they still have different interests as I stated above and in the second we are talking about foreigners who don't come here as well as those that do, tariffs are applied to defend American industries against trade warfare by foreigners who don't come here.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Maybe maybe not. But it is anti freedom for the government to tax us and tell us who we can't do business with. Do you hate freedom?
    It is not anti-freedom for the government to protect Americans from hostile foreign trade war, tariffs are one of the forms of taxation the founders approved of because they are one of the forms that is least onerous on Americans citizens.
    Trade warfare is used to weaken America and the ordinary middle class American to facilitate world government and domestic socialism, to allow it is to be anti-freedom.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  21. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Well, you obviously know nothing about what I've accomplished, but let's just say, a lot more than you.
    Go ahead and list your accomplishments here:

    1)

    2)

    3)

    4)

    .
    .
    .
    Oligarchy delenda est

    “If you love wealth greater than liberty, the tranquility of servitude greater than the animating contest for freedom, go home from us in peace. We seek not your counsel, nor your arms. Crouch down and lick the hand that feeds you; May your chains set lightly upon you, and may posterity forget that you were our countrymen.” - Samuel Adams



  22. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  23. #49

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    until the assimilate they will share interests with their native countrymen that you do not and they won't share interests with you that Americans do.
    You are basing your thoughts on the false supposition that there is some sort of monolithic or homogeneous "American culture"... and while there are certainly parts of our society and culture that might be fit in to that category, the whole of the people here is neither.


    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    tariffs are applied to defend American industries against trade warfare by foreigners who don't come here.
    Tariffs punish some people and reward others. You must have failed economics 101.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  24. #50

    Thumbs down

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It is not anti-freedom for the government to protect Americans from hostile foreign trade war, tariffs are one of the forms of taxation the founders approved of because they are one of the forms that is least onerous on Americans citizens.
    Trade warfare is used to weaken America and the ordinary middle class American to facilitate world government and domestic socialism, to allow it is to be anti-freedom.
    Wrong... You too must have failed economics.

    Tariffs make things more expensive. And all taxation is theft.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  25. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    You are basing your thoughts on the false supposition that there is some sort of monolithic or homogeneous "American culture"... and while there are certainly parts of our society and culture that might be fit in to that category, the whole of the people here is neither.
    There is an American culture and while some Americans may share more or less of it foreigners share none of it until they are assimilated.



    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Tariffs punish some people and reward others. You must have failed economics 101.
    So do trade wars waged by foreigners, people get hurt in wars so it is best to discourage others from waging them against you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    Wrong... You too must have failed economics.

    Tariffs make things more expensive. And all taxation is theft.
    "All taxation is theft" makes a nice bumper sticker but only anarchist really believe it, government has a legitimate role in life and minimal taxes to support that role aren't theft.
    Even defensive wars are expensive and countering foreign subsidies designed to turn America into a dependent welfare state incapable of resisting foreign domination and domestic socialism doesn't really make things more expensive, the subsidies make things less expensive in a bad way and the tariffs correct the price.

    The best policy is to make it clear that we will defend ourselves against trade warfare and negotiate low tariffs with our would be antagonists.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  26. #52
    Unless Trump manages to fire hundreds of thousands of federal employees, Virginia is lost for probably at least the next four years if not for an extremely long period of time. Best to not waste any effort at all promoting Liberty inside Virginia. North Carolina is still winnable as is South Carolina, and, Tennessee even Kentucky. Why West Virginia is a Backwater when it comes to Freedom like Kentucky. Even West Virginia is highly winnable.
    Lifetime member of more than 1 national gun organization and the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. Part of Young Americans for Liberty and Campaign for Liberty. Free State Project participant and multi-year Free Talk Live AMPlifier.

  27. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    There is an American culture and while some Americans may share more or less of it foreigners share none of it until they are assimilated.
    That is one of the most ignorant things I've read on here.




    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    "All taxation is theft" makes a nice bumper sticker but only anarchist really believe it, government has a legitimate role in life and minimal taxes to support that role aren't theft.
    In addition to being ignorant on economics you must also not know what the definition of "theft" is


    And no, I'm not an anarchist.
    __________________________________________________ ________________
    "A politician will do almost anything to keep their job, even become a patriot" - Hearst

  28. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    That is one of the most ignorant things I've read on here.
    What I responded to was one of the most ignorant thins I've read.




    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Collins View Post
    In addition to being ignorant on economics you must also not know what the definition of "theft" is


    And no, I'm not an anarchist.
    Money payed for a legitimate service is not theft just because in some cases the organization it is owed to has to extract it from someone who attempts to avoid paying what they owe.
    Anarchists believe the government doesn't have a legitimate purpose so they can claim that all taxation is theft.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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