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Thread: The free market solution to school shootings.

  1. #1

    The free market solution to school shootings.

    How about privatizing the schools and letting the parents decide which schools are safest? As far as I can tell I'm the only one here with this idea, which is a little disconcerting since this is supposed to be a libertarian forum.

    It's bad enough that kids are getting shot at schools, but the fact that the government forces your kids to attend makes it even worse.



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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    As far as I can tell I'm the only one here with this idea, which is a little disconcerting since this is supposed to be a libertarian forum.
    Umm, actually I would say 99% of the forum is with you on private schools. What makes you think anybody here besides zippy and maybe a couple other whackos support public schools?

    The problem with this solution is that, currently, it is 100% completely and totally unrealistic.. because only 1% or 2% of the population believes in abolishing public schools - that means it cannot and will not happen any time soon.

    So in the mean time we can look at things like big pharma and MK Ultra and other factors that go into school shootings, but there is also nothing preventing anybody from espousing their views on public schools.
    Last edited by dannno; 05-22-2018 at 02:13 PM.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Umm, actually I would say 99% of the forum is with you on private schools. What makes you think anybody here besides zippy and maybe a couple other whackos support public schools?
    Because no one has ever mentioned it?

    And I hate when people write "Ummm"!!!!

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Because no one has ever mentioned it?

    And I hate when people write "Ummm"!!!!
    It's probably been mentioned about 2 or 3 million times.

    Half the people here are anarchists. Do you think anarchists believe in public schools?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #5
    My idea is to have school on the internet and do away with the brick and mortar schools entirely.

  7. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Because no one has ever mentioned it?
    I've mentioned it before and I have seen others mention many times.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  8. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Dr.3D View Post
    My idea is to have school on the internet and do away with the brick and mortar schools entirely.
    And once again, an idea is born that is ahead of the times. But, the colleges have been moving into that I see.

  9. #8
    We don't have public schools--we have public daycare.
    Support Justin Amash for Congress
    Michigan Congressional District 3



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by EBounding View Post
    We don't have public schools--we have public daycare.
    We don't even have that... a daycare that had only one provider screwing its kids would cease to exist in short order.

    We have indoctrination centers that also happen to teach times tables.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Because no one has ever mentioned it?

    And I hate when people write "Ummm"!!!!
    I'll indulge you:
    Public school is a phenomenon which is unfit to exist in a free society, which should never have existed in a free society, and actively undermines a free society.
    Public school is where people get the Stockholm Syndrome necessary to be incapable of seeing that freedom has always been a pipe dream here.
    Public school is where people get accustomed to accepting mild slavery and where they learn to call it "freedom".

    But only about 60% of that phenomenon is due to the "public" part of "public school".

    Public school is a large problem: but if liberty is your goal, school is still a problem, whether it's public or not.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's probably been mentioned about 2 or 3 million times.

    Half the people here are anarchists. Do you think anarchists believe in public schools?

    Strawman: an intentionally misrepresented proposition that is set up because it is easier to defeat than an opponent's real argument.


    I said as a "solution to the school shootings". Obviously no one here believes in public schools. Except maybe Zippy and TheCount.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I've mentioned it before and I have seen others mention many times.
    Link?

  15. #13
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #14
    I didn't see any on the first link but I finally found one from Ender of all people on about page 6.

    Anyway my point is that eliminating government schools should be THE solution in my opinion. These shootings should be a rallying point to privatize the schools. 99% of the posts I've read are about the best way for the government to fix the problem in their crappy schools, not to privatize them. It sort of legitimizes government schools.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I didn't see any on the first link but I finally found one from Ender of all people on about page 6.

    Anyway my point is that eliminating government schools should be THE solution in my opinion. These shootings should be a rallying point to privatize the schools. 99% of the posts I've read are about the best way for the government to fix the problem in their crappy schools, not to privatize them. It sort of legitimizes government schools.
    Many of us want to end government schools but since that isn't likely we also discuss what else can be done to prevent school shootings and protect gun rights.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  18. #16
    This is rubbish, private schools. So I guess the parents pay up front them, or will a sales tax cover this?



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Many of us want to end government schools but since that isn't likely we also discuss what else can be done to prevent school shootings and protect gun rights.
    Closely regulate the Drugging of Children. (Option to refuse drugging children)
    Provide self defense and firearm training to any and all who wish to learn,, and counter the Propaganda of decades.
    Enforce the 2nd amendment, (remove all present gun laws)
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Closely regulate the Drugging of Children. (Option to refuse drugging children)
    Provide self defense and firearm training to any and all who wish to learn,, and counter the Propaganda of decades.
    Enforce the 2nd amendment, (remove all present gun laws)
    Shatter the CIA into a thousand pieces and scatter it to the winds.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    This is rubbish, private schools. So I guess the parents pay up front them, or will a sales tax cover this?
    The most libertarian option is to let the parents pay for their children's schooling or get help from private charity or home school, a half step is to provide the parents with school vouchers and let them choose what school to send their children to.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  23. #20
    That won't really work, it'll mean that education will be different in many other schools, so the competition is going to be up and down, so many students are going to lose out.

  24. #21
    I would suggest that as a free-market solution to school shootings, parents should withdraw their children and home school them.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    so many students are going to lose out.
    On What?
    Elitist drivel? Misinformation. Indoctrination?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    That won't really work, it'll mean that education will be different in many other schools, so the competition is going to be up and down, so many students are going to lose out.
    As if that doesn't happen with government schools?

    The market would create a more uniform school standard through competition than the government does.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    That won't really work, it'll mean that education will be different in many other schools, so the competition is going to be up and down, so many students are going to lose out.
    And that's why you are a successful adult with his own home and family?
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi



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  29. #25
    Education is important, but many will leave school as underachievers, myself an example, a private education system won't solve that. Private schools serve for the privileged few. Like stating that everybody should attend Oxfordshire county's university, Oxford.

    State education is the only solution to give a broad education, the alternatives aren't going to compete.

  30. #26
    Agree about privatizing schools 100%. But in the meantime, here are some ideas that might help increase security and generally improve the situation in public schools.

    1. More resource officers or armed security. Two minimum on campus at all times, with one added for every 250-300 students.

    2. Pay a bonus to teachers that pass an active shooter training course and decide to conceal carry.

    3. Mandatory school uniforms. School uniforms have been shown to reduce bullying and increase camaraderie. Public schools are by their very nature unfree, and of course, dress codes already exist to varying degrees. At the very least, they could all share in their misery and hatred of the uniforms. Traditionally, private schools required uniforms more often than public schools.

    4. Eliminate all athletics and focus on academics only.

    5. Charge the parents with criminal negligence.

    6. Rules for media to desensationalize mass shootings in order to prevent copy cats. The media is not as private an industry as we are often led to believe, and many in the MSM have a very real agenda to see that these school shootings actually increase rather than decrease. Ideally, they would voluntarily adopt their own ethical standards in this regard, but I don't see that happening.


  31. #27
    The answer is to give a date certain for the repeal of the Equal Opportunity in Education act of 1974. It has not educated anyone.

    As it happens I am a bit of an amateur genealogist. I have looked at images of public records from the time they began until the present day. Nowadays we type them or put them out on a computer, but up until at least 1940 (the latest set of census available online) they were done by hand. The quality of the handwriting declines, especially after 1910. On some census, the state names are misspelled. It is clear that as early as 1830 Americans were educated well. Almost every non-slave could read and do math well. It is documented in the census.

    It is worth taking a look at some old census, property deeds, voter registration, and marriage records. Early on, every document was a one-off, carefully written in beautiful chirography or calligraphy. Spelling of surnames was not standard, but they were all written beautifully.

    Kids today can't write. They eat too much finger food and do not develop fine muscles in the hand that enable writing. And they are not taught to write because their teachers and parents can't write.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Republicanguy View Post
    so many students are going to lose out.
    Why 82% of Public Schools are Failing


    https://www.publicschoolreview.com/b...ls-are-failing


    More Money, Same Problems

    Showering public schools with funds has been a costly failure. Why not try something new?
    https://www.usnews.com/opinion/artic...public-schools
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  33. #29
    School shootings are not an issue of law or economics and as such can't be solved through those means. I'm sure private security would help, but the root of the problem is civilizational and spiritual.
    NeoReactionary. American High Tory.

    The counter-revolution will not be televised.

  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ThePaleoLibertarian View Post
    School shootings are not an issue of law or economics and as such can't be solved through those means. I'm sure private security would help, but the root of the problem is civilizational and spiritual.
    The school in Florida where the latest shooting took place had armed guards on campus.

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