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Thread: Egg a day tied to lower risk of heart disease

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    It almost sounds like you're saying God is OK with this fallen world. I disagree. Yes, we live in a fallen world, but as Christians, we are supposed to want and aim for God's perfect will, on earth as it is in heaven.

    Jesus taught us to pray for that.
    "This, then, is how you should pray:

    ‘Our Father in heaven,
    hallowed be your name,
    your kingdom come,
    your will be done,
    on earth as it is in heaven.

    Give us today our daily bread.
    And forgive us our debts,
    as we also have forgiven our debtors.
    And lead us not into temptation,
    but deliver us from the evil one.’"

    Matthew 6: 9-13

    I believe that as we are getting closer to the last days, God has been calling many of his people to a kinder, gentler plant-based diet, as it was in the very beginning. For me, it was definitely something that I felt called to do… And I've heard the same thing from other Christian vegans. I personally believe that an awakening is happening, worldwide. It is growing in a phenomenal way, and I believe without a doubt that it is the future. I believe that because it is prophesied, and because I can see it happening with my own eyes.
    GOD knew the fall would come and he designed his creatures to deal with it, when his kingdom comes we won't need meat for food or it will be created without killing animals like the fish Christ fed the multitudes.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    You're limiting this to the health aspect of it only. You said that there are "healthy meats" that don't come from factory farms, and I made the point that even the so-called "humane" free-range animals still end up with their throats slit, chopped into pieces. There's nothing humane about violently taking the life of an innocent being who wants to live. So it is a false comparison to compare sentient animals who screamed for their life, to a tomato or carrot.

    Listen to yourself. You ignore God's original design as stated in Genesis 1. You ignore God's ultimate will, the restoration of the peace that existed in the beginning, as stated in Isaiah and other prophetic verses. You ignore all the commands to be merciful, gentle, loving, kind and selfless……
    I'm not ignoring God's commands to be merciful. I just don't think that means being vegan. You kill cockroaches and flies and I doubt you would mind killing mice but freak out if someone kills anything cute. God forbade murder, he never forbade killing animals.

    and what do you focus on?
    I tried focusing on the verses that specifically said what Jesus ate. As best I can understand your logic you think those were either forgeries or Jesus is not compassionate and ate a demonic inspired diet. Maybe there's a third option I can't see.
    Some questionable verses that were written about the Israelites at that time, thousands of years ago, verses that are not even applicable today, as we don't sacrifice animals to atone for sin, Jesus is the sacrifice, the Lamb of God.
    He ate flesh after he rose from the dead. It's right there in your bible.

    So you bring up those animal sacrifices as a way to somehow justify eating meat today? Why do you ignore all of these verses:
    For I desire mercy, not sacrifice, and acknowledgment of God rather than burnt offerings.” Hosea 6:6

    “For in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, I did not speak to your fathers or command them concerning burnt offerings and sacrifices” Jeremiah 7:22

    “Sacrifice and offering you did not desire– but my ears you have opened — burnt offerings and sin offerings you did not require.” Psalm 40:6

    “What to me is the multitude of your sacrifices?
    says the Lord;
    I have had enough of burnt offerings of rams
    and the fat of well-fed beasts;
    I do not delight in the blood of bulls,
    or of lambs, or of goats.

    “When you come to appear before me,
    who has required of you
    this trampling of my courts?
    Bring no more vain offerings;
    incense is an abomination to me.
    New moon and Sabbath and the calling of convocations—
    I cannot endure iniquity and solemn assembly.
    Your new moons and your appointed feasts
    my soul hates;
    they have become a burden to me;
    I am weary of bearing them.
    When you spread out your hands,
    I will hide my eyes from you;
    even though you make many prayers,
    I will not listen;
    your hands are full of blood.
    Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean;
    remove the evil of your deeds from before my eyes;
    cease to do evil,
    learn to do good;
    seek justice,
    correct oppression;

    bring justice to the fatherless,
    plead the widow's cause.

    Isaiah 1: 11–17

    “You do not delight in sacrifice, or I would bring it; you do not take pleasure in burnt offerings” Psalm 51:16

    "with burnt offerings and sin offerings you were not pleased.” Hebrews 10:6
    Those are all good verses, and they have nothing to do with a vegan diet. They have to do with following God and his law with all your heart rather than focusing on ceremonies and buying your way into heaven.
    I could go on, but for now I'll leave it at that, and share a link to an article that is a must read.

    I think most Christians have the wrong idea about animal sacrifices. Many people seem to think God has no problem with the shedding of innocent blood, and sees nothing wrong with us putting our tastebuds above mercy. I beg to differ. That does not go long with a God of love, mercy, selflessness.

    Please take the time to read this article about animal sacrifices. Please read the whole thing: MERCY AND ANIMAL SACRIFICE
    So basically the Old Testament law was a mind game, and when God said you must sacrifice an animal he actually wanted them to disobey him? Wow. The author also fails to point how Jesus commanded his disciples to go prepare the Passover..



    I have read and studied the Bible. I even went to a Bible school, through the missions organization I was with. And I continue to learn, I will never stop learning.

    I think it is very sad that you justify your fleshly desire for animal corpses by looking at Old Testament verses that were for the Israelites that lived more than 2000 years ago… And even those verses are debatable, as the Bible itself states that the lying scribes changed God's law, in order to do what they wanted to do.
    I think it's very sad that you make it sound like eating a traditional diet is on the same level as sleeping around. God gave us the 'fleshly' desire to want a nutritious meal. I feel no guilt or shame over what I eat, and at least I don't believe I'm holier than you are based on my diet. That's great that you studied the Bible, but if you think the verses on a little thing like meat might be a demonic load of crap then what's the point? What parts can we trust? That's my whole problem with your approach to it. If meat eating is enshrined in the Bible as part of an evil conspiracy than who's to say John 3:16 is the word of God either? Or for that matter what about the one verse in Genesis you cling to? That could easily be a forgery if you accept the premise that the Bible has been altered

    There is historical evidence that the brother of Jesus, as well as several of the disciples were vegetarian.
    I'll take your historical evidence of Jesus' brother, and raise you a verse that clearly says Jesus ate fish.

    There is good reason to believe that the New Testament contains some interpolations, because there was a big division between two groups, in early Christianity, vegetarians and meat eaters. Since the meat eaters “won,” it wouldn't surprise me at all if certain truths were omitted or downplayed, and other things inserted. You appear to have zero interest or curiosity about that, no desire to dig deeper… That shows me that your mind is closed, that you're putting your stomach above all else – even the search for actual truth… Because truth is not always what we think it is, sometimes you have to dig deeper.
    No. I believe the truth is in God's word, the Holy Bible. I am not interested in doctrines that require me throwing out huge chunks of the Bible in order for me to accept them. If you want to know what God thinks of animals and diet just read the Bible. It's all in there, you will find that veganism is totally fine for you if that's what you want.

    Romans 14

    Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
    2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
    3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
    4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
    5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
    6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.

    You won't find where it is permitted for you to forbid others from eating meat, because there's a verse that specifically warns that is wrong.
    Last edited by William Tell; 05-28-2018 at 01:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    It's a balance between appeasing his supporters, appeasing the deep state and reaching his own goals.
    ~Resident Badgiraffe




  4. #93
    Quote Originally Posted by William Tell View Post
    I'm not ignoring God's commands to be merciful. I just don't think that means being vegan. You kill cockroaches and flies and I doubt you would mind killing mice but freak out if someone kills anything cute. God forbade murder, he never forbade killing animals.
    So the only beings that matter are human beings? Mercy should not apply to animals, only humans? Do you have a dog or cat? Would you abuse your dog, treat him like garbage or as a mere commodity, inflicting pain and torture upon him? Why not, if mercy only applies to human beings? Do you realize that pigs are just as smart or smarter than dogs? Please explain the logic behind loving and cherishing dogs, while terrorizing / torturing pigs. Why, because one tastes better than the other?

    You're entitled to your opinion, but the Bible clearly states that God's mercy extends to ALL his creation. (Psalm 145:9) If God has mercy and love toward all his creation, why should we not?

    As for your comment about insects or mice, first of all, don't assume that I have the same views as all vegans. As a Christian, my views differ in a few areas from secular vegans. I have never claimed that humans and animals are on the same level, and I have never claimed that all animals are on the same level. Clearly, there are different levels of sentience, so you can't exactly compare an intelligent animal like a pig, to a fly or cockroach. Secondly, I never claimed that it is always wrong to kill an animal. If an animal could hurt someone or cause someone to be sick and that animal is invading one's house, that is an entirely different situation than callously killing an innocent, sentient, intelligent animal, for no reason other than to satisfy your tastebuds.

    I tried focusing on the verses that specifically said what Jesus ate. As best I can understand your logic you think those were either forgeries or Jesus is not compassionate and ate a demonic inspired diet. Maybe there's a third option I can't see.
    He ate flesh after he rose from the dead. It's right there in your bible.
    There is only one verse that seems to say that Jesus ate meat (Fish.) Let’s take a look at it.

    Interestingly, many of the modern Bible versions changed that verse and omitted part of it. Since the King James version is more accurate than many of the modern versions, let's look at that:

    41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? [remember that meat in those days simply meant food]

    42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

    43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

    Luke 24:41-43

    Assuming this verse is not a forgery, verse 43 says he ate "it" but it doesn't say he ate both, so there are a few possibilities here. He could have eaten the honeycomb and not the fish. That is what many vegetarians believe, and interestingly that could be a fulfillment of the prophecy, in Isaiah 7:15.

    He could have eaten both, but the verse does not actually say that.

    Other people believe this verse was an interpolation, and there are a number of reasons for that, but again, I'm not going to get into all this in detail right now.

    Since Jesus clearly had a heart for God's original design, and in many cases set the religious Jews of that time straight in regard to God's original design/intent, I personally do not believe that he ate meat, but I'm not going to try to convince you of that right here and now. When I have done more study on all of this, I am planning to prepare a video or blog post on this topic, there are certain books I want to read on this, from people who have done extensive research on this topic.

    Those are all good verses, and they have nothing to do with a vegan diet. They have to do with following God and his law with all your heart rather than focusing on ceremonies and buying your way into heaven.
    I never said that those verses have to do with a vegan diet. I shared those because you seem to be hinging your entire meat eating position on animal sacrifices (and the verse about Jesus eating fish) which is absurd, since the sacrifice verses were for a specific group of people during a specific time, and even for them (assuming those verses are legit) the purpose of the sacrifices was not about meat eating. So to use those verses as a justification for meat eating is ironic in light of what you just said… Because just as God did not like people using animal sacrifices in an empty way, without a contrite and repentant heart… I think it's safe to say that God does not like people using references to animal sacrifices as a way to justify satisfying our tastebuds, while simultaneously ignoring His original design/intent, His ultimate will, and all the verses about mercy.

    So basically the Old Testament law was a mind game, and when God said you must sacrifice an animal he actually wanted them to disobey him? Wow. The author also fails to point how Jesus commanded his disciples to go prepare the Passover..
    No, but we know that God sometimes tests us to reveal what is in our hearts. When God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, did God actually want Isaac to die? This topic is much bigger and deeper than you seem to think it is. One thing is for sure, Jesus clearly stated that God desires mercy, not sacrifice.… something you continually ignore. We have the ability to plead for mercy for those who are under us and in our charge. Just as Jesus did on the cross (“Father forgive them") and Moses did for the Israelites after the golden calf worship. Obviously the Israelites didn't do that, and I wonder why? Gee, could it be that they simply wanted to feast on the dead animals, and couldn't care less about being repentant or anything else?

    I still have a ton of studying to do on this topic, as I keep telling you, whole books have been written about this, so I have not concluded anything just yet, I am just bringing up the different views.

    Regarding the passover, no mention was made of the disciples killing or eating a lamb. Jesus was the lamb. Only bread and wine were mentioned at the meal, which is how the Nazarene sect in Jesus' time celebrated passover.

    I think it's very sad that you make it sound like eating a traditional diet is on the same level as sleeping around. God gave us the 'fleshly' desire to want a nutritious meal. I feel no guilt or shame over what I eat, and at least I don't believe I'm holier than you are based on my diet. That's great that you studied the Bible, but if you think the verses on a little thing like meat might be a demonic load of crap then what's the point? What parts can we trust? That's my whole problem with your approach to it. If meat eating is enshrined in the Bible as part of an evil conspiracy than who's to say John 3:16 is the word of God either? Or for that matter what about the one verse in Genesis you cling to? That could easily be a forgery if you accept the premise that the Bible has been altered
    I didn't say that it was on the same level as sleeping around, once again you're putting words in my mouth. I think that most people who eat meat are completely oblivious to what they're actually doing… They don't realize what the animals went through, how they scream for the life, how they are treated like garbage. Most people love animals, so when they find out what is really going on, they are horrified. My point was that God tolerates certain things in this fallen world that were never part of his original design. That is undeniable.

    As for the theory that certain passages in the Bible were inserted, I have not yet concluded that, as I keep saying, I am still studying and looking into all of this.

    I'll take your historical evidence of Jesus' brother, and raise you a verse that clearly says Jesus ate fish.
    I went over this one already.

    No. I believe the truth is in God's word, the Holy Bible. I am not interested in doctrines that require me throwing out huge chunks of the Bible in order for me to accept them. If you want to know what God thinks of animals and diet just read the Bible. It's all in there, you will find that veganism is totally fine for you if that's what you want.

    You won't find where it is permitted for you to forbid others from eating meat, because there's a verse that specifically warns that is wrong.
    No, I don't think you do. You handpick the verses you want to focus on, while ignoring many, many others. You don't look at the big picture, all of your focus and attention is on this particular time, the fallen world. But I don't want to continue to tell you stuff like that, because that is not my intention here. One day the world will go back to the peace, nonviolence and non-meat eating that existed in the garden – in God's original design. Since you will be vegetarian (if not vegan) one day… I hope that you will not continue to close yourself off to this. More and more Christians are going vegan every day… And it will continue that way, as it is the future.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    So the only beings that matter are human beings? Mercy should not apply to animals, only humans? Do you have a dog or cat? Would you abuse your dog, treat him like garbage or as a mere commodity, inflicting pain and torture upon him? Why not, if mercy only applies to human beings? Do you realize that pigs are just as smart or smarter than dogs? Please explain the logic behind loving and cherishing dogs, while terrorizing / torturing pigs. Why, because one tastes better than the other?

    You're entitled to your opinion, but the Bible clearly states that God's mercy extends to ALL his creation. (Psalm 145:9) If God has mercy and love toward all his creation, why should we not?

    As for your comment about insects or mice, first of all, don't assume that I have the same views as all vegans. As a Christian, my views differ in a few areas from secular vegans. I have never claimed that humans and animals are on the same level, and I have never claimed that all animals are on the same level. Clearly, there are different levels of sentience, so you can't exactly compare an intelligent animal like a pig, to a fly or cockroach. Secondly, I never claimed that it is always wrong to kill an animal. If an animal could hurt someone or cause someone to be sick and that animal is invading one's house, that is an entirely different situation than callously killing an innocent, sentient, intelligent animal, for no reason other than to satisfy your tastebuds.



    There is only one verse that seems to say that Jesus ate meat (Fish.) Let’s take a look at it.

    Interestingly, many of the modern Bible versions changed that verse and omitted part of it. Since the King James version is more accurate than many of the modern versions, let's look at that:
    41 And while they yet believed not for joy, and wondered, he said unto them, Have ye here any meat? [remember that meat in those days simply meant food]

    42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

    43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

    Luke 24:41-43

    Assuming this verse is not a forgery, verse 43 says he ate "it" but it doesn't say he ate both, so there are a few possibilities here. He could have eaten the honeycomb and not the fish. That is what many vegetarians believe, and interestingly that could be a fulfillment of the prophecy, in Isaiah 7:15.

    He could have eaten both, but the verse does not actually say that.

    Other people believe this verse was an interpolation, and there are a number of reasons for that, but again, I'm not going to get into all this in detail right now.

    Since Jesus clearly had a heart for God's original design, and in many cases set the religious Jews of that time straight in regard to God's original design/intent, I personally do not believe that he ate meat, but I'm not going to try to convince you of that right here and now. When I have done more study on all of this, I am planning to prepare a video or blog post on this topic, there are certain books I want to read on this, from people who have done extensive research on this topic.



    I never said that those verses have to do with a vegan diet. I shared those because you seem to be hinging your entire meat eating position on animal sacrifices (and the verse about Jesus eating fish) which is absurd, since the sacrifice verses were for a specific group of people during a specific time, and even for them (assuming those verses are legit) the purpose of the sacrifices was not about meat eating. So to use those verses as a justification for meat eating is ironic in light of what you just said… Because just as God did not like people using animal sacrifices in an empty way, without a contrite and repentant heart… I think it's safe to say that God does not like people using references to animal sacrifices as a way to justify satisfying our tastebuds, while simultaneously ignoring His original design/intent, His ultimate will, and all the verses about mercy.



    No, but we know that God sometimes tests us to reveal what is in our hearts. When God asked Abraham to sacrifice his son Isaac, did God actually want Isaac to die? This topic is much bigger and deeper than you seem to think it is. One thing is for sure, Jesus clearly stated that God desires mercy, not sacrifice.… something you continually ignore. We have the ability to plead for mercy for those who are under us and in our charge. Just as Jesus did on the cross (“Father forgive them") and Moses did for the Israelites after the golden calf worship. Obviously the Israelites didn't do that, and I wonder why? Gee, could it be that they simply wanted to feast on the dead animals, and couldn't care less about being repentant or anything else?

    I still have a ton of studying to do on this topic, as I keep telling you, whole books have been written about this, so I have not concluded anything just yet, I am just bringing up the different views.

    Regarding the passover, no mention was made of the disciples killing or eating a lamb. Jesus was the lamb. Only bread and wine were mentioned at the meal, which is how the Nazarene sect in Jesus' time celebrated passover.



    I didn't say that it was on the same level as sleeping around, once again you're putting words in my mouth. I think that most people who eat meat are completely oblivious to what they're actually doing… They don't realize what the animals went through, how they scream for the life, how they are treated like garbage. Most people love animals, so when they find out what is really going on, they are horrified. My point was that God tolerates certain things in this fallen world that were never part of his original design. That is undeniable.

    As for the theory that certain passages in the Bible were inserted, I have not yet concluded that, as I keep saying, I am still studying and looking into all of this.



    I went over this one already.



    No, I don't think you do. You handpick the verses you want to focus on, while ignoring many, many others. You don't look at the big picture, all of your focus and attention is on this particular time, the fallen world. But I don't want to continue to tell you stuff like that, because that is not my intention here. One day the world will go back to the peace, nonviolence and non-meat eating that existed in the garden – in God's original design. Since you will be vegetarian (if not vegan) one day… I hope that you will not continue to close yourself off to this. More and more Christians are going vegan every day… And it will continue that way, as it is the future.
    Lily you are the one who handpicks verses and ignores others, I already quoted these earlier in the thread:

    Luke 22


    7 Then came the day of unleavened bread, when the passover must be killed.

    8 And he sent Peter and John, saying, Go and prepare us the passover, that we may eat.

    9 And they said unto him, Where wilt thou that we prepare?
    10 And he said unto them, Behold, when ye are entered into the city, there shall a man meet you, bearing a pitcher of water; follow him into the house where he entereth in.
    11 And ye shall say unto the goodman of the house, The Master saith unto thee, Where is the guestchamber, where I shall eat the passover with my disciples?
    12 And he shall shew you a large upper room furnished: there make ready.
    13 And they went, and found as he had said unto them: and they made ready the passover.
    14 And when the hour was come, he sat down, and the twelve apostles with him.
    15 And he said unto them, With desire I have desired to eat this passover with you before I suffer:

    16 For I say unto you, I will not any more eat thereof, until it be fulfilled in the kingdom of God.


    The passover's central dish was a lamb, note that killing it is specifically mentioned and Christ says he will eat a passover fullfillment IN THE KINGDOM OF GOD. (presumably in heaven he will create the meat out of thin air as he did the fish when feeding the multitudes but he didn't do that here)


    John 21

    4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
    5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
    6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

    7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
    8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
    9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

    10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

    11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
    12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

    13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


    Here we have Christ helping the Apostles to kill fish and then cooking some and feeding them to the Apostles.


    Acts 11

    4 But Peter rehearsed the matter from the beginning, and expounded it by order unto them, saying,
    5 I was in the city of Joppa praying: and in a trance I saw a vision, A certain vessel descend, as it had been a great sheet, let down from heaven by four corners; and it came even to me:
    6 Upon the which when I had fastened mine eyes, I considered, and saw fourfooted beasts of the earth, and wild beasts, and creeping things, and fowls of the air.

    7 And I heard a voice saying unto me, Arise, Peter; slay and eat.

    8 But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth.
    9 But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.
    10 And this was done three times: and all were drawn up again into heaven.


    Here we have Peter being commanded to slay and eat animals in a vision from heaven, if it wasn't proper to do so GOD would have made his point a different way.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #95
    @Swordsmyth you have a habit of ignoring pretty much everything I post, and then expecting me to address the things you bring up. That's not how I debate, you have to address my points if you want me to address yours.

    Also, you seem to be unaware that there were many vegetarian believers at that time, and that there was a big division in early Christianity, between the vegetarians and the meat eaters. There are numerous ancient writings that tell a different story, in regard to meat eating in those days. There are ancient writings that state that Jesus condemned the eating of meat and sought to bring an end to animal sacrifices. Roman culture was pro meat-eating, so the Roman translators of the Bible could very well have left out certain things. When you take that into consideration, along with the fact that there is compelling evidence that James and the number of the disciples were vegetarian… one who genuinely cares about truth would want to look into this more. But like many meat eating Christians, you don't seem to have much interest in digging into the complicated history here. People with a heart for truth, compassion and God's original design will take the time to do the research, and trust their God-given intuition, as well as the truth that God does not change. And it is undeniable that God's perfect will and original design is peace, nonviolence, and a plant-based diet.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    @Swordsmyth you have a habit of ignoring pretty much everything I post, and then expecting me to address the things you bring up. That's not how I debate, you have to address my points if you want me to address yours.

    Also, you seem to be unaware that there were many vegetarian believers at that time, and that there was a big division in early Christianity, between the vegetarians and the meat eaters. There are numerous ancient writings that tell a different story, in regard to meat eating in those days. There are ancient writings that state that Jesus condemned the eating of meat and sought to bring an end to animal sacrifices. Roman culture was pro meat-eating, so the Roman translators of the Bible could very well have left out certain things. When you take that into consideration, along with the fact that there is compelling evidence that James and the number of the disciples were vegetarian… one who genuinely cares about truth would want to look into this more. But like many meat eating Christians, you don't seem to have much interest in digging into the complicated history here. People with a heart for truth, compassion and God's original design will take the time to do the research, and trust their God-given intuition, as well as the truth that God does not change. And it is undeniable that God's perfect will and original design is peace, nonviolence, and a plant-based diet.
    I have responded to everything you said in earlier posts but you said to William that only the one verse had Christ eating meat and you ignored the verses I pointed out while accusing William of cherry picking verses.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I have responded to everything you said in earlier posts but you said to William that only the one verse had Christ eating meat and you ignored the verses I pointed out while accusing William of cherry picking verses.
    It doesn't say that Jesus ate the Passover lamb. Jesus WAS the Passover lamb! Even meat eating scholars will tell you that it is debatable, for a number of reasons. I'm not going to do all the research for you, if you genuinely care about truth, do the research yourself.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    It doesn't say that Jesus ate the Passover lamb. Jesus WAS the Passover lamb! Even meat eating scholars will tell you that it is debatable, for a number of reasons. I'm not going to do all the research for you, if you genuinely care about truth, do the research yourself.
    I disagree but you are still ignoring the other verses.

    Lets just look at the most indisputable passage:

    John 21

    4 But when the morning was now come, Jesus stood on the shore: but the disciples knew not that it was Jesus.
    5 Then Jesus saith unto them, Children, have ye any meat? They answered him, No.
    6 And he said unto them, Cast the net on the right side of the ship, and ye shall find. They cast therefore, and now they were not able to draw it for the multitude of fishes.

    7 Therefore that disciple whom Jesus loved saith unto Peter, It is the Lord. Now when Simon Peter heard that it was the Lord, he girt his fisher's coat unto him, (for he was naked,) and did cast himself into the sea.
    8 And the other disciples came in a little ship; (for they were not far from land, but as it were two hundred cubits,) dragging the net with fishes.
    9 As soon then as they were come to land, they saw a fire of coals there, and fish laid thereon, and bread.

    10 Jesus saith unto them, Bring of the fish which ye have now caught.

    11 Simon Peter went up, and drew the net to land full of great fishes, an hundred and fifty and three: and for all there were so many, yet was not the net broken.
    12 Jesus saith unto them, Come and dine. And none of the disciples durst ask him, Who art thou? knowing that it was the Lord.

    13 Jesus then cometh, and taketh bread, and giveth them, and fish likewise.


    Here we have Christ helping the Apostles to kill fish and then cooking some and feeding them to the Apostles.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  11. #99
    All life is valuable and has intelligence.

    And that includes not only animals, but fruits, vegetables, herbs, as well as snakes, lizards, rodents, and insects. Spiders are some of the most intelligent creatures on the planet but most who scream about protecting animals, and hate meat eaters, have no problem killing a spider just because it's there.

    And please realize that I am an avid animal lover and believe in taking care of the planet. What is necessary is to be grateful for ALL life that has been sacrificed for one's well being, whether it is a cow or an apple- they are both intelligent and deserve the best of care.
    There is no spoon.

  12. #100
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    ^ Case in point.

    Carbs are only bad if you're eating things like cookies, Doritos, soda, etc. Eating a healthy, whole foods plant-based diet (which is a high carb diet, of the good variety) is a completely different story.
    Not particularly true. The body has to have protein and carbs can destroy certain blood types.

    People are NOT fat from meats & fats- the irony is that you can not lose weight w/o fat.

    Carbs & refined sugar are the biggest contributors to poor health - and most Americans over indulge in these- not meats.

    The Keto diet is the healthiest diet around for both the body and the mind.
    There is no spoon.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I didn't actually make that claim. But it is true that meat eaters have a much higher obesity rate than vegans and vegetarians. It's just common sense that eating things like McDonald's, Kentucky fried chicken, and other greasy "food" (look at the people who eat that stuff… most of them are obese) is far more likely to lead to obesity and other health problems than eating a healthy plant-based diet. Plus, people who eat the SAD are probably on average less concerned with health in general, and exercise.
    Comparing a junk food laden omnivore diet to a healthy plant based diet is ridiculous. It's obvious that someone who loads up on fast food is going to be obese but a diet rich in lean animal protein isn't going to make you fat and there are obese vegans and vegetarians who load up on garbage, too.

    IMO, a healthy diet is the one that works for you because everyone's needs are different.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Not particularly true. The body has to have protein and carbs can destroy certain blood types.

    People are NOT fat from meats & fats- the irony is that you can not lose weight w/o fat.

    Carbs & refined sugar are the biggest contributors to poor health
    - and most Americans over indulge in these- not meats.

    The Keto diet is the healthiest diet around for both the body and the mind.
    Yep. If the body has no source of fat, then it will not burn its own. Kind of like surgical starvation, and having the opposite effect that is intended.

    As far as carbs and refined sugars, also agree. Sugar in your blood stream may as well be like shards of broken glass. Ive hard more than once that sugar is responsible for inflammation and high cholesterol!
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    The Keto diet is the healthiest diet around for both the body and the mind.
    I completely disagree, I think that is ridiculous. You've fallen for all the hype and propaganda.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    Comparing a junk food laden omnivore diet to a healthy plant based diet is ridiculous. It's obvious that someone who loads up on fast food is going to be obese but a diet rich in lean animal protein isn't going to make you fat and there are obese vegans and vegetarians who load up on garbage, too.

    IMO, a healthy diet is the one that works for you because everyone's needs are different.
    I was speaking in general, I wasn't equating those two, as you seem to have interpreted my post. Do you really think that the average obese American is eating only the grass fed, supposedly "healthy" meats? Or just the packaged meat at the grocery store that comes from factory farms, along with fast food? Don't apply a very small percentage of people onto the entire population.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    All life is valuable and has intelligence.

    And that includes not only animals, but fruits, vegetables, herbs, as well as snakes, lizards, rodents, and insects. Spiders are some of the most intelligent creatures on the planet but most who scream about protecting animals, and hate meat eaters, have no problem killing a spider just because it's there.

    And please realize that I am an avid animal lover and believe in taking care of the planet. What is necessary is to be grateful for ALL life that has been sacrificed for one's well being, whether it is a cow or an apple- they are both intelligent and deserve the best of care.
    The "but plants have feelings too!" argument is by far the absolute dumbest "argument" of all. And I think if you truly believed that, you wouldn't eat plants OR animals, but especially animals who – unlike plants – have a central nervous system, a brain, and without a doubt display emotions and the ability to feel pain and suffering.

    Also, I don't want to be rude or disrespectful, but I'm not going to lie… You don't truly love animals if you kill and eat them. That logic reminds me of something Jeffrey Dahmer would say.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Yep. If the body has no source of fat, then it will not burn its own. Kind of like surgical starvation, and having the opposite effect that is intended.

    As far as carbs and refined sugars, also agree. Sugar in your blood stream may as well be like shards of broken glass. Ive hard more than once that sugar is responsible for inflammation and high cholesterol!
    Of course healthy fats are good, I'm all for eating healthy plant-based fats that come from things like nuts, avocado, etc. But animal fat is a different story, and there are tons and tons of studies show a diet high in animal products linked to clogged arteries, higher risk of cancer and heart disease, etc.

    But of course no one wants to give up the things they love, so they prefer to find good things written about their dietary habits.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    The "but plants have feelings too!" argument is by far the absolute dumbest "argument" of all. And I think if you truly believed that, you wouldn't eat plants OR animals, but especially animals who – unlike plants – have a central nervous system, a brain, and without a doubt display emotions and the ability to feel pain and suffering.

    Also, I don't want to be rude or disrespectful, but I'm not going to lie… You don't truly love animals if you kill and eat them. That logic reminds me of something Jeffrey Dahmer would say.

    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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    Short Income Tax Video

    The Income Tax Is An Excise, And Excise Taxes Are Privilege Taxes

    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Of course healthy fats are good, I'm all for eating healthy plant-based fats that come from things like nuts, avocado, etc. But animal fat is a different story, and there are tons and tons of studies show a diet high in animal products linked to clogged arteries, higher risk of cancer and heart disease, etc.

    But of course no one wants to give up the things they love, so they prefer to find good things written about their dietary habits.
    When they come up with ways to defend an irrational idea, as you described, its called Rationalizing. For people that dont understand that, it would be like an Alcoholic explaining why always being drunk is healthy. Its a mental defense tactic that many people use to prevent challenging or changing their own point of view. Its part of Denial.

    Anyhow, I agree, too much meat is also bad. Well, anything out of that balance. All things in moderation. Also, to validate you even further, even those bad cholesterols break down into Vitamin D3 with direct sunlight on the skin. Takes a while to do, but thats the chemistry. Isnt it funny how they immediately come out and say Sunlight is BAD? Always use Sunscreen? Whats next, there is no safe level of Sunlight what so ever? We should ban Sunlight! Sure, too much sunlight can be very bad. Not just sunburns, but in excess, sure. But what they would have people do is literally hide in dark caves and never ever see the Sun period. Why is that? And, just how many reports do we see on how good Vitamin D3 is for people? I think @donnay will be able to post one of a bazillion things about Vitamin D3 is needed.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I completely disagree, I think that is ridiculous. You've fallen for all the hype and propaganda.
    Keto has been prescribed for decades now-long before it was trendy-for people with CNS (central nervous system) and all sorts of diseases because it works. @Ender is factually correct.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Also, I don't want to be rude or disrespectful, but I'm not going to lie… You don't truly love animals if you kill and eat them. That logic reminds me of something Jeffrey Dahmer would say.
    No, I do not "love animals".

    "Love" has been so tortured, abused and twisted, as a word, an emotion and a state of mind so as to become utterly worthless, especially when applied to creatures that have no concept of any that, and have become nothing more than anthropomorphized symbols of what once was the most powerful, pure and rare of all human traits.

    Animals are a resource, no different to me than oil or minerals or lumber.

    Were I born in the correct century, I'd probably have been a whaler.

    Which is just one of the reasons it's ridiculous to try and justify veganism through scriptures...when the very same scriptures 150 years ago were used to justify the hunt for whales to near extinction.

    Because I enjoy a steak and burger, does not make my Jeffery Dahmer either.

    Many times just the opposite is true: people who have no true love in their hearts, and instead shower affection on mindless animals as if they were as good or better than human companionship, have the sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies displayed by a Dahmer.

  24. #111
    ///
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-30-2018 at 02:44 PM.

  25. #112
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    No, I do not "love animals".

    "Love" has been so tortured, abused and twisted, as a word, an emotion and a state of mind so as to become utterly worthless, especially when applied to creatures that have no concept of any that, and have become nothing more than anthropomorphized symbols of what once was the most powerful, pure and rare of all human traits.

    Animals are a resource, no different to me than oil or minerals or lumber.

    Were I born in the correct century, I'd probably have been a whaler.

    Which is just one of the reasons it's ridiculous to try and justify veganism through scriptures...when the very same scriptures 150 years ago were used to justify the hunt for whales to near extinction.

    I know you don't, you have made that clear, I wasn't speaking to you or someone with your mindset. In fact, as horrible as it is to me, at least you're consistent.


    Because I enjoy a steak and burger, does not make my Jeffery Dahmer either.

    Many times just the opposite is true: people who have no true love in their hearts, and instead shower affection on mindless animals as if they were as good or better than human companionship, have the sociopathic or psychopathic tendencies displayed by a Dahmer.
    You completely misunderstood the Jeffrey Dahmer comment, that was not about meat eaters, I was specifically talking about the bizarreness of saying you love someone but then killing and eating them. But actually, I understand… I was that way too, for a number of years. I claimed to love animals but I ate them too. Of course at that time I was blind, but towards the end I did start feeling the discomfort of that cognitive dissonance and I even wrote a blog post about it.

    As for the last thing you said, nice try but the opposite is true. It is a known fact that most serial killers start out as animal abusers. When a young person is cruel to an animal, it is often warning sign of a troubled mind, and sometimes that leads to more serious crimes. But this is neither here nor there, as I was not speaking to you, I was speaking about people who say they love animals but then eat them.

    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau



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  27. #113
    Quote Originally Posted by heavenlyboy34 View Post
    Keto has been prescribed for decades now-long before it was trendy-for people with CNS (central nervous system) and all sorts of diseases because it works. @Ender is factually correct.
    No, he/she is not. Ender was not talking specifically about treating certain problems, (like CNS problems) he/she said it was the healthiest diet all around, and that is flat out false. Sure people have lost weight on this diet, but that in and of itself doesn't make it healthy. You can lose weight smoking cigarettes or from chemotherapy, but I wouldn't recommend those things either. Despite any short term benefits, in the long run it's dangerous. But I can definitely understand why people like it. Who wouldn't want to eat all their favorite foods like lard and bacon and steak, etc. lol
    Last edited by lilymc; 05-30-2018 at 07:28 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    No, he/she is not. Ender was not talking specifically about treating certain problems, (like CNS problems) he/she said it was the healthiest diet all around, and that is flat out false. Sure people have lost weight on this diet, but that in and of itself doesn't make it healthy. You can lose weight smoking cigarettes or from chemotherapy, but I wouldn't recommend those things either. Despite any short term benefits, in the long run it's dangerous. But I can definitely understand why people like it. Who wouldn't want to eat all their favorite foods like lard and bacon and steak, etc. lol
    They're not everyone's favourite foods, though. Carb and sugar addiction are way more common. That's why processed food (including many vegan products) has so much sugar in it. https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/eating-mindfully/201204/sugar-addiction
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
    what works can never be discussed online. there is only one language the government understands, and until the people start speaking it by the magazine full... things will remain the same.
    Hear/buy my music here "government is the enemy of liberty"-RP Support me on Patreon here Ephesians 6:12

  29. #115
    Is killing insects OK?
    Openly Straight Man, Danke, Awarded Top Rated Influencer

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    The Federalist Papers, No. 15:

    Except as to the rule of appointment, the United States have an indefinite discretion to make requisitions for men and money; but they have no authority to raise either by regulations extending to the individual citizens of America.

  30. #116

  31. #117
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    The "but plants have feelings too!" argument is by far the absolute dumbest "argument" of all. And I think if you truly believed that, you wouldn't eat plants OR animals, but especially animals who – unlike plants – have a central nervous system, a brain, and without a doubt display emotions and the ability to feel pain and suffering.

    Also, I don't want to be rude or disrespectful, but I'm not going to lie… You don't truly love animals if you kill and eat them. That logic reminds me of something Jeffrey Dahmer would say.
    -rep

    Really? Well, you are. The Jeffery Dahmer comparison and comments like the one below illustrate that you do want to be rude and disrespectful. At least be honest about it.

    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    Never been there. I guess I've been living out of the country for a long time, because I'm not even familiar with the place.

    But from the sound of it, I probably wouldn't go there anyway, if all they serve is thinly sliced rotting flesh coated with coagulated cow pus. But knock yourself out.
    Anyhoo, I don't really care what you eat or believe as long as you don't try to force it on me. If ya do, I hope you at least have the balls to come to my house and try to take it yourself and not send government goons.
    Last edited by Suzanimal; 05-31-2018 at 05:41 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by lilymc View Post
    I completely disagree, I think that is ridiculous. You've fallen for all the hype and propaganda.
    That would be YOU.

    I am a 100% natural health advocate. I have seen friends suffering from severe anxiety and depression CURED through the Keto diet.

    I am also an animal lover- and I love and respect, and give thanks for, all living things on the earth.

    Trees are highly intelligent- all living things have a form of intelligence. Many studies are showing the hive mind of trees and how they protect their own. Just because they are not soft furry pets that you can relate to, does NOT negate this.

    Plants react to music- they grow better and faster with certain kinds of music. They also react to being spoken to- that has also been proved.

    So keep on hating people who don't think like you do- but I will continue to give thanks for all life around me.
    There is no spoon.

  33. #119
    Quote Originally Posted by Suzanimal View Post
    -rep

    Really? Well, you are. The Jeffery Dahmer comparison and comments like the one below illustrate that you do want to be rude and disrespectful. At least be honest about it.
    You know what is rude? (not to mention hateful) Going around saying that all vegans are bat$#@! crazy, but I didn't -rep you or lash out at you about that. Furthermore, you managed to completely miss the point, and I already explained that to AF, but I guess you didn't read that post? I wasn't talking about meateaters in general when I brought up the Jeffrey Dahmer comment, I was specifically talking about the bizarreness of claiming to adore animals but then killing/eating them. And even that was said in a sort of tongue-in-cheek way, which obviously did not come across… But I would think that you of all people would understand that not everything is to be taken so literally/seriously. But if you were offended by this, I'm sorry, I will exit your safe space.

    Anyhoo, I don't really care what you eat or believe as long as you don't try to force it on me. If ya do, I hope you at least have the balls to come to my house and try to take it yourself and not send government goons.
    I am absolutely against forcing people to do anything. So I don't know where that came from, because we were talking about completely other things. Anyway, I've got other far more important things I have to do today, besides sit around on this forum, so I'm leaving this discussion for now.
    Last edited by lilymc; 05-31-2018 at 01:01 PM.
    “I have no doubt that it is a part of the destiny of the human race, in its gradual improvement, to leave off eating animals, as surely as the savage tribes have left off eating each other.”

    ― Henry David Thoreau

  34. #120
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    Is killing insects OK?
    What about Bacteria?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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