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Thread: LIVE Active Shooter Event in Santa Fe High School

  1. #121
    @Zippyjuan

    When did Mk ultra end Officially?

    do you have any proof that it ended?

    Does a Mockingbird tell you different?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #122
    You know how this works, Pete. Officially, I'm not aware it ended, but if it has ended, these programs shuffle around under different names.

  4. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    You know how this works, Pete. Officially, I'm not aware it ended, but if it has ended, these programs shuffle around under different names.
    Most pretend that this reality does not exist..

    An official end,,even alleged,, is admission of existence..

    Once you can get people to understand the reality of it's existence,,, it is open to investigation..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  5. #124
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Did that work in this case?
    Did what work? Having two overweight rent-a-cops guarding a building of hundreds of defenseless people? I can see how that would have put the fear of God into the shooter.

  6. #125
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    I don't like the idea of a politician deciding how best to make schools safer. Let the parents decide by getting rid of government schools.

  7. #126
    The ideal solution would be to ban public schools and all gun restrictions on school zones. Private schools that are armed to the teeth and responsible for the safety of their customers would make sure this $#@! doesn't go on.

  8. #127
    Quote Originally Posted by The Gold Standard View Post
    The ideal solution would be to ban public schools and all gun restrictions on school zones. Private schools that are armed to the teeth and responsible for the safety of their customers would make sure this $#@! doesn't go on.
    Plus I'd remove any requirements that force attendance. Forcing kids that don't want to be there, or don't belong there screws it up for everyone else.

  9. #128
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't like the idea of a politician deciding how best to make schools safer. Let the parents decide by getting rid of government schools.
    What the hell are you talking about?? Giving teachers the right to carry a weapon for self defense = politician deciding how to best make schools safer?? No, this is putting it in the hands of individuals, not politicians..

    But ya, I get your point, a private school could make the determination to not allow guns - but as long as we have public schools, teachers should be allowed to carry a weapon for self defense..

    This is sort of like the "I don't like immigration controls, let's just get rid of welfare"

    The problem is that immigration controls can and will happen, getting rid of welfare is not anywhere in the realm of a possibility right now.. So in the mean time, we will have millions and millions more people coming for big government welfare benefits.. they also vote Democrat at nearly 2:1 ratio as the rest of the population.

    So because some are unwilling to put in immigration controls and are hoping to get rid of welfare as a better alternative, some day, you find that the social safety net ends up getting bigger and bigger because you just imported a bunch of Democrat big government socialist voters and your hopes and dreams of getting rid of welfare become completely shattered.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  11. #129
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Plus I'd remove any requirements that force attendance. Forcing kids that don't want to be there, or don't belong there screws it up for everyone else.
    Attendance would be a contractual obligation in private schools.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  12. #130
    I'm with former Obama Ed Sec Arne Duncan. Boycott public schools (and the taxes that pay for them)
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  13. #131
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    What the hell are you talking about?? Giving teachers the right to carry a weapon for self defense = politician deciding how to best make schools safer?? No, this is putting it in the hands of individuals, not politicians..

    But ya, I get your point, a private school could make the determination to not allow guns - but as long as we have public schools, teachers should be allowed to carry a weapon for self defense..

    This is sort of like the "I don't like immigration controls, let's just get rid of welfare"

    The problem is that immigration controls can and will happen, getting rid of welfare is not anywhere in the realm of a possibility right now.. So in the mean time, we will have millions and millions more people coming for big government welfare benefits.. they also vote Democrat at nearly 2:1 ratio as the rest of the population.

    So because some are unwilling to put in immigration controls and are hoping to get rid of welfare as a better alternative, some day, you find that the social safety net ends up getting bigger and bigger because you just imported a bunch of Democrat big government socialist voters and your hopes and dreams of getting rid of welfare become completely shattered.
    I understand your point but the problem I have is that not you nor anyone else is even MENTIONING school choice in this debate. Everyone just skips the free market solution and goes right to the forced government solution.

  14. #132
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    I'm with former Obama Ed Sec Arne Duncan. Boycott public schools (and the taxes that pay for them)
    Somehow I'm guessing he's not to crazy about the tax part.

  15. #133
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Somehow I'm guessing he's not to crazy about the tax part.
    Ya, not to mention he wants to boycott until the 2nd amendment is effectively abolished.

    But still, he's right on the boycott public schools part.

    I'm already doing my part. Small private classical christian school for my kids.
    Truth forever on the scaffold, Wrong forever on the throne,--
    Yet that scaffold sways the future, and, behind the dim unknown,
    Standeth God within the shadow, keeping watch above his own.
    ‫‬‫‬

  16. #134
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I understand your point but the problem I have is that not you nor anyone else is even MENTIONING school choice in this debate. Everyone just skips the free market solution and goes right to the forced government solution.
    Nobody is promoting a forced government solution, even Trump is saying that teachers should be able to get training and arm themselves if they choose. That is not a forced government solution, that is getting rid of regulations to allow people to make their own decisions.

    I am seeing some political cartoons of Trump promoting security checkpoints in schools, but afaik that is not based on any sort of reality.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #135
    Quote Originally Posted by axiomata View Post
    Ya, not to mention he wants to boycott until the 2nd amendment is effectively abolished.

    But still, he's right on the boycott public schools part.

    I'm already doing my part. Small private classical christian school for my kids.
    Trying to stop school shootings by abolishing guns is like trying to stop termites from eating your house by eradicating the entire world population of termites.

  18. #136
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Trying to stop school shootings by abolishing guns is like trying to stop termites from eating your house by eradicating the entire world population of termites.
    I would say trying to stop school shootings by abolishing guns is like trying to stop termites from eating your house by trying to eradicate termite poison.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #137
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Nobody is promoting a forced government solution, even Trump is saying that teachers should be able to get training and arm themselves if they choose. That is not a forced government solution, that is getting rid of regulations to allow people to make their own decisions.
    Suppose the local school board decides the best way to make its school safer is not to arm teachers. Should the federal government override that decision and force the school to allow armed teachers?

    By the way there's a lot more support for school choice that 1 or 2%.

    "New Survey: Nearly Two-Thirds of Americans Support School Choice"


    https://www.nationalreview.com/corne...cation-reform/
    Last edited by Madison320; 05-22-2018 at 02:26 PM.

  21. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Suppose the local school board decides the best way to make its school safer is not to arm teachers. Should the federal government override that decision and force the school to allow armed teachers?
    Ask the 2nd Amendment.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #139
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Ask the 2nd Amendment.
    I don't understand.

  23. #140
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't understand.
    Can states break the 4th amendment and seize your property without due process? Can they curtail your free speech?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  24. #141
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    I don't understand.
    A government school has no right to infringe on a teacher's right to keep and bear arms.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #142
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    A government school has no right to infringe on a teacher's right to keep and bear arms.
    Yeah, at home. Not at a public school.

    Besides that I'm not too crazy about the amendment that makes the bill of rights extend to the states.

  26. #143
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yeah, at home. Not at a public school.

    Besides that I'm not too crazy about the amendment that makes the bill of rights extend to the states.
    So you think states should be able to search and seize your property or convict you of a crime without due process?
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc
    "You don't need a medical degree to spot obvious bullshit, that's actually a separate skill." -Scott Adams
    "When you are divided, and angry, and controlled, you target those 'different' from you, not those responsible [controllers]" -Q

    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  27. #144
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Can states break the 4th amendment and seize your property without due process? Can they curtail your free speech?
    First of all I don't like the fact that the bill of rights extends to the states. The last entity I want protecting my rights is a massive federal government. Second the right to bear arms is on your private property. When it comes to public property it gets complicated.



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  29. #145
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    So you think states should be able to search and seize your property or convict you of a crime without due process?
    No, but I think it should be up to the states to make that decision. Don't you?

  30. #146
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Yeah, at home. Not at a public school.
    Anywhere.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Besides that I'm not too crazy about the amendment that makes the bill of rights extend to the states.
    You think states should be able to violate people's fundamental rights?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  31. #147
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    First of all I don't like the fact that the bill of rights extends to the states. The last entity I want protecting my rights is a massive federal government.
    The federal government doesn't have to be massive to protect your rights.

    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Second the right to bear arms is on your private property. When it comes to public property it gets complicated.
    What part of "shall not be infringed" don't you understand?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  32. #148
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    No, but I think it should be up to the states to make that decision. Don't you?
    Not if they want to be members of the union.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  33. #149
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Anywhere.
    A courthouse? Your house?



    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    You think states should be able to violate people's fundamental rights?
    No, but I don't want the Federal Government enforcing it. Don't tell me you've never heard of this concept.

  34. #150
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    A courthouse?
    Yes.
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Your house?
    My house is private property, I could ban guns from my house, the government can't ban guns from my house.





    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    No, but I don't want the Federal Government enforcing it. Don't tell me you've never heard of this concept.
    One of the few legitimate purposes of the federal government is to enforce your rights, if a state doesn't like it they should leave the union.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

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