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Thread: LIVE Active Shooter Event in Santa Fe High School

  1. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Any links to him being on meds?
    Had not looked. there always is.. I am sure it will surface that he was treated for depression or some other such.

    Who gave him guns?

    Who allowed unlocked guns anywhere in the vicinity of a troubled kid?

    Edit,, Dads guns answered...

    Who was the handler? The second person (always a second person)
    The second (person of interest) held has not been named.
    Last edited by pcosmar; 05-20-2018 at 05:44 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #92
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Had not looked. there always is.. I am sure it will surface that he was treated for depression or some other such.

    Who gave him guns?

    Who allowed unlocked guns anywhere in the vicinity of a troubled kid?
    I guess he took them from his father (or perhaps his father gave them to him).

    https://www.khou.com/article/news/cr.../285-553862431

    Texas Gov. Greg Abbott said Pagourtzis had planned to kill himself but instead surrendered, calling him a coward.

    Abbott said the teen used a shotgun and a .38 revolver legally owned by his father.

    Who allowed unlocked guns anywhere in the vicinity of a troubled kid?
    Should we restrict guns for people seen as mentally unstable? Background checks prior to sales perhaps? Maybe get the kid on some meds or into some treatment before he hurts somebody? Should everybody be monitored?

    I agree that the shooters all seem to be mentally unstable- normal people don't do things like that. They were in treatment because they already had issues. Did meds cause them to go nuts- or were they already nuts and put on meds for that?
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 05:56 PM.

  4. #93
    The news interupted coverage of this shooting to report and literally gush over how much of a cool cat that the "prince" is.

    Also, YouTube altered its header logo (which I always use to get back to the main page for a fresh search) to link to the entire "royal" wedding.

    Seriously, it is very worrisome that there is such a public push for the ideal of a monarch on everybody--a truly antiquated, space-wasting useless form of government, and one that was born from blatant deception, lies, and fraud.
    The object of life is not to be on the side of the majority, but to escape finding one’s self in the ranks of the insane.” — Marcus Aurelius

    They’re not buying it. CNN, you dumb bastards!” — President Trump 2020

    Consilio et Animis de Oppresso Liber

  5. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Should we restrict guns for people seen as mentally unstable?
    That is the direction some want to take.

    Who defines who is stable? What if they are crazy?

    Perhaps you are too young to remember a time before,,,,

    When many pick-up trucks and car trunks had guns in them..
    Where students traded ammo at school.,, and shootings were rare hunting accidents or dumb mistakes.
    Fist fights were as violent as school ever got.. and guns were common and quite available.. Gun Free zones were not created or even envisioned.

    What is different? at some point it all changed.
    The change corresponds to the introduction of Mind Control Drugs.. especially to children.

    It is either a Massive failure of the Pharmaceutical and medical communities..

    or it is achieving its intended goal. Programmable Killers.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  6. #95
    Fist fights were as violent as school ever got.. and guns were common and quite available..
    Fist fights expanded to use knives and then to hand guns. Each level let you stay farther away from the victim. An arms race. If he is going to hit you, you need a knife to protect yourself. If he is going to have a knife, you need a gun. If he has a pistol, you want a better gun. In China or Japan they are more likely to use knives because the don't have many guns.

    There also used to be sanitariums you could send off people to if you thought they were crazy. Now you just give them pills.

    There isn't an easy answer. More guns won't help. Banning guns won't help. Can't lock everybody up for what they might do.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 06:11 PM.

  7. #96
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Fist fights expanded to use knives and then to hand guns. .
    Rarely at school,, at least mine..
    Lots of guys and some girls carried knives.. but they were not used in fights as a rule.. It was rare.

    Violence increased in this country as the CIA entered the drug trade in the late 70s.. Created Crack,, Funded friends,,etc..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



  8. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  9. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Fist fights expanded to use knives and then to hand guns. Each level let you stay farther away from the victim. An arms race. If he is going to hit you, you need a knife to protect yourself. If he is going to have a knife, you need a gun. If he has a pistol, you want a better gun. In China or Japan they are more likely to use knives because the don't have many guns.

    There also used to be sanitariums you could send off people to if you thought they were crazy. Now you just give them pills.

    There isn't an easy answer.
    If you don't have an easy answer then leave things be, you are much more likely to make things worse than make them better.
    If you want to find the best possible answer look for the cause instead of the symptom.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  10. #98
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Rarely at school,, at least mine..
    Lots of guys and some girls carried knives.. but they were not used in fights as a rule.. It was rare.

    Violence increased in this country as the CIA entered the drug trade in the late 70s.. Created Crack,, Funded friends,,etc..
    Actually violence goes back a long ways. Even to the 1800's in this country. https://www.k12academics.com/school-...-united-states

    Modern weapons just make it easier to kill larger numbers at one time.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 06:18 PM.

  11. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Actually violence goes back a long ways. Even to the 1800's in this country. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States
    Violence yes,,

    Massive school shootings by high school students is a new development..
    Despite increased gun control and Gun Free Zones.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #100
    Numbers of shootings per year (per 100 million people to account for population changes):


    Victims per year (per 100 million people- includes injuries along with deaths)






    https://www.politico.com/magazine/st...esearch-215678

    There is, by now, a familiar script to it all: A mass public shooting, followed by waves of grief and outrage, then calls for gun control on the one hand and harrumphing about politicizing tragedies on the other. The news stories and statements by political leaders write themselves, with only the location, name of the shooter and number of casualties changing. It all seems so routine.

    But this perception isn’t because of some unprecedented rise in the rate of mass public shootings—far from it. They’re roughly as common now as they were in the 1980s and ’90s. And the data offer a stark finding: Over the past decade, mass public shootings haven’t become particularly more prevalent, they’ve simply become deadlier.

    A mass public shooting, as I’ve defined it in my research, is any incident in which four or more victims are killed with a firearm within a 24-hour period at a public location in the absence of other criminal activity (robberies, drug deals, gang “turf wars”), military conflict or collective violence. For instance, last year’s mass murder at the Pulse nightclub in Orlando would qualify, but the 1890 massacre at Wounded Knee would not, nor would a familicide in a private home, nor a shootout between rival gangs.

    Within these boundaries, there have been 140 mass public shootings in the United States since 1976 (the rest have been mostly familicides and felony-related massacres), which amounts to an average of a little more than three per year. When we’re looking at trends in the incidence and severity of mass public shootings over time, it’s necessary—just as it is with other types of crime—to adjust for changes in the size of the U.S. population.

    Since the mid-2000s, the incidence of mass public shootings on a per capita basis has been a bit higher than it was in the preceding 10 years. But the rates over the past 10 years are no higher than in the late 1980s and early '90s, when the frequency of mass public shootings led to the creation of policies designed to address violence in schools and workplaces. Most notably, the growing number of high-profile mass public shootings in that era helped bring about the 1994 enactment of the federal assault weapons ban, which was allowed to expire in 2004.

    What has increased over time is the number of people shot in these incidents. Looking at annual trends in the total number of victims shot in mass public shootings (on a per capita basis), you can see that the severity has recently increased, reaching a 40-year high. Because the trends in the rates at which victims have been killed and wounded have been similar, I focus on the total number of victims shot (either killed or wounded). Before 2012, the five-year moving average never exceeded 20 victims shot (per 100 million Americans). Since then, the five-year moving average rate has been above 20 every year but one (2014).

    This may help to explain why shootings seem more common, even though they aren’t. Research shows that the number of victims killed and wounded are the strongest predictors of the extent to which a mass killing gets reported by the news media. Recent growth in the number of catastrophic mass public shootings—combined with the extensive, wall-to-wall news coverage that accompanies these tragedies—likely accounts for the commonly held misconception that mass shootings are now more frequent.
    More at link.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 06:29 PM.

  13. #101
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    IShould we restrict guns for people seen as mentally unstable?
    I would not trust the leftists in government, or anywhere else, to judge the mental stability of anyone. Not as far as I could throw them.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  14. #102
    Quote Originally Posted by euphemia View Post
    I would not trust the leftists in government, or anywhere else, to judge the mental stability of anyone. Not as far as I could throw them.
    I would not trust conservatives to do it either.

  15. #103
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I would not trust conservatives to do it either.
    It's not a government decision at all. The leftists are the ones who want to label pro-lifers as criminals. They run the schools and they are the ones who want to drug all the kids. A girl can't take Tylenol to school for menstrual cramps, but the school will label every active child ADHD and have them put on drugs so they can get "special needs" money. They are the ones who suspend little kids for hugging or biting a graham cracker into the shape of a gun.
    #NashvilleStrong

    “I’m a doctor. That’s a baby.”~~~Dr. Manny Sethi

  16. #104
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    More at link.
    I am Class of 75.. your charts start later..

    I am also Class of 75 at Ft. Polk La. I was there training during the Fall of Saigon.

    for perspective,,
    Last edited by pcosmar; 05-20-2018 at 11:05 PM.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  18. #105
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I would not trust conservatives to do it either.
    I do not trust Government period. regardless of who is running it..

    They all have the same traits.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  19. #106
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I am Class of 75.. your charts start later..
    Did you see the other list? https://www.k12academics.com/school-...-united-states

    They count 17 in the 1950's and eleven in the 1960's.

  20. #107
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Did you see the other list? https://www.k12academics.com/school-...-united-states

    They count 17 in the 1950's and eleven in the 1960's.
    Shot by students,??, or during riots??
    Are the Kent State Murders included?

    I am not talking about gang members with zip guns.
    There have never been mass shootings with zip guns.

    And I had access to Full Auto M-14s in High School.. so don't even discuss the limited availability today.

    Chicago,, in the worst of the gangster era was nothing like the CIA and Gangs,,
    Friggin crates of Modern Guns just show up in allies?
    Crack (CIA Created) increases both profits and addiction.

    Fusion Centers Coordinate Police and Federal shenanigans.

    And there are 100 more zombies ready to be triggered for every one you see in the news.
    Anywhere they want one.

    prove me wrong..
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  21. #108
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post

    And there are 100 more zombies ready to be triggered for every one you see in the news.
    Anywhere they want one.

    prove me wrong..
    These ones showed up at an Open Carry Rally.. to protest..

    Zombies everywhere waiting for some puppet-master or merry prankster to give them direction.


    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  22. #109
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Shot by students,??, or during riots??
    Are the Kent State Murders included?

    I am not talking about gang members with zip guns.
    There have never been mass shootings with zip guns.

    And I had access to Full Auto M-14s in High School.. so don't even discuss the limited availability today.

    Chicago,, in the worst of the gangster era was nothing like the CIA and Gangs,,
    Friggin crates of Modern Guns just show up in allies?
    Crack (CIA Created) increases both profits and addiction.

    Fusion Centers Coordinate Police and Federal shenanigans.

    And there are 100 more zombies ready to be triggered for every one you see in the news.
    Anywhere they want one.

    prove me wrong..
    And there are 100 more zombies ready to be triggered for every one you see in the news.
    I can't disagree with that. Some just want to be recognized or famous so they copy other shooters who got attention.


    Here is a sample:

    January 11, 1955 Swarthmore, Pennsylvania After some of his dorm mates urinated on his mattress Bob Bechtel, a 20-year-old student at Swarthmore College, returned to his dorm with a shotgun and used it to shoot and kill fellow student Holmes Strozier.

    April 17, 1956 New York City, New York 18-year-old Henry Smith, a student at a Bronx vocational high school, is stabbed to death by 16-year-old Randolph Lawrence, a fellow student. The stabbing was reportedly sparked over a dispute about a basketball game.

    May 4, 1956 in Prince George's County, Maryland, 15-year-old student Billy Prevatte fatally shot one teacher and injured two others at Maryland Park Junior High School in Prince George's County after he had been reprimanded from the school.

    October 20, 1956: New York City, New York A junior high school student was wounded in the forearm yesterday by another student armed with a home-made weapon at Booker T. Washington Junior High School.

    October 2, 1957: New York City, New York “A 16-year old student was shot in the leg yesterday by a 15-year old classmate at a city high school.”

    March 4, 1958: New York City, New York “A 17-year-old student shot a boy in the Manual Training High School.”

    May 1, 1958: Massapequa, New York A 15-year-old high school freshman was shot and killed by a classmate in a washroom of the Massapequa High School.

    February 2, 1960 Hartford City, Indiana Principal Leonard Redden shot and killed two teachers with a shotgun at William Reed Elementary School in Hartford City, Indiana, before fleeing into a remote forest, where he committed suicide.

    June 7, 1960 Blaine, Minnesota Lester Betts, a 40-year-old mail-carrier, walked into the office of 33-year-old principal Carson Hammond and shot him to death with a 12-gauge shotgun.

    April 20, 1961 Chicago, Illinois Teacher Josephine Keane, 45, is sexually assaulted and stabbed to death inside a storeroom at Lewis-Champlin elementary school in Chicago. Lee Arthur Hester, a 14-year-old student, is later convicted of the murder and sentenced to 55 years in prison.

    October 17, 1961 Denver, Colorado Tennyson Beard, 14, got into an argument with William Hachmeister, 15, at Morey Junior High School. During the argument Beard pulled out a .38 caliber revolver and shot at Hachmeister, wounding him. A stray bullet also struck Deborah Faith Humphrey, 14, who died from her gunshot wound.

    August 1, 1966 University of Texas Massacre Charles Whitman climbs atop the observation deck at the University of Texas-Austin, killing 16 people and wounding 31 during a 96-minute shooting rampage.

    November 12, 1966 Mesa, Arizona Bob Smith, 18, took seven people hostage at Rose-Mar College of Beauty, a school for training beauticians. Smith ordered the hostages to lie down on the floor in a circle. He then proceeded to shoot them in the head with a 22-caliber pistol. Four women and a three-year-old girl died, one woman and a baby were injured but survived. Police arrested Smith after the massacre. Smith had reportedly admired Richard Speck and Charles Whitman.
    That 1966 shooting at University of Texas was really the first mass shooting at a school. Others generally had just one or two victims.
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 11:46 PM.

  23. #110
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Did meds cause them to go nuts- or were they already nuts and put on meds for that?
    Hard to say, but it is a matter of fact that many commonly prescribed anti-depressants and ADD meds have significant risks of suicidal/homicidal thoughts and actions as side effects.

  24. #111
    Keep in mind that the worst mass school killing incident in the US was almost 100 years ago, and had nothing to do with guns.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

  25. #112
    Keep in mind that the worst mass school killing incident in the US was almost 100 years ago, and had nothing to do with guns.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster



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  27. #113
    Totally unrelated, but it's always shocking to meet your doppelganger.

    Fellow in the green "Freedom is never Free" shirt with dog tags could be my twin brother.

    Creepy.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post

  28. #114
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Totally unrelated, but it's always shocking to meet your doppelganger.

    Fellow in the green "Freedom is never Free" shirt with dog tags could be my twin brother.

    Creepy.
    At least your double wasn't with the Antifa idiots, that would be REALLY creepy.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  29. #115
    Given that these shootings are almost always carried out by young men, to what degree is the stultifying Grundyism and inability to challenge and test themselves as young men in an environment of poisonous misandry found in the government schools to blame?

  30. #116
    In Sight

    Dead Kennedys

    Who's that kid in the back of the room
    Who's that kid in the back of the room
    He's setting all his papers on fire
    He's setting all his papers on fire

    Where did he get that crazy smile
    Where did he get that crazy smile
    We all think he's really weird
    We all think he's really weird

    We never talk to him
    He never looks quite right
    He laughs at us
    We just beat him up
    What he sees escapes our sight

    We never see him with the girls
    We never see him with the girls
    He's talking to himself again
    He's talking to himself again

    Why doesn't he want tons of friends
    Why doesn't he want tons of friends
    Says he's bored when we hang around
    Says he's bored when we hang around

    We never talk to him
    He never looks quite right
    He laughs at us
    We just beat him up
    What he sees escapes our sight

    We're all planning our careers
    We're all planning our careers
    We're all planning our careers
    He says we're growing old

    Songwriters: Jello Biafra
    In Sight lyrics © Kobalt Music Publishing Ltd.

  31. #117



    They're gonna clean up your looks
    With all the lies in the books
    To make a citizen out of you
    Because they sleep with a gun
    And keep an eye on you, son
    So they can watch all the things you do

    Because the drugs never work
    They're gonna give you a smirk
    'Cause they got methods of keepin' you clean
    They gonna rip up your heads
    Your aspirations to shreds
    Another cog in the murder machine

    They said all
    Teenagers scare
    The living $#@! out of me
    They could care less
    As long as someone'll bleed
    So darken your clothes
    Or strike a violent pose
    Maybe they'll leave you alone
    But not me

    The boys and girls in the clique
    The awful names that they stick
    You're never gonna fit in much, kid
    But if you're troubled and hurt
    What you got under your shirt
    Will make them pay for the things that they did

    They said all
    Teenagers scare
    The living $#@! out of me
    They could care less
    As long as someone'll bleed
    So darken your clothes
    Or strike a violent pose
    Maybe they'll leave you alone
    But not me

    Oh yeah
    They said all
    Teenagers scare
    The living $#@! out of me
    They could care less
    As long as someone'll bleed
    So darken your clothes
    Or strike a violent pose
    Maybe they'll leave you alone
    But not me

    All together now
    Teenagers scare
    The living $#@! out of me
    They could care less
    As long as someone'll bleed
    So darken your clothes
    Or strike a violent pose
    Maybe they'll leave you alone
    But not me

    Teenagers scare
    The living $#@! out of me
    They could care less
    As long as someone'll bleed
    So darken your clothes
    Or strike a violent pose
    Maybe they'll leave you alone
    But not me

  32. #118
    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    I can't disagree with that. Some just want to be recognized or famous so they copy other shooters who got attention.


    Here is a sample:






    That 1966 shooting at University of Texas was really the first mass shooting at a school. Others generally had just one or two victims.
    University of Texas,, First test case?.(one that got away?). Pre-SSRI drug trials.. SSRIs were purpose developed for Mkultra program.

    University of Texas was a research facility. Shooter a subject.

    and that has been repeated. It is repeatable science.

    Do your research.. Mind Control was only one aspect of the Mad Scientists Plans. And Drugs were KEY.

    http://all.net/journal/deception/MKU.../mkultra.shtml
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  33. #119
    RYAN MCMAKEN ON THE INGRAHAM ANGLE

    Ryan McMaken joined Laura Ingraham and Chris Hahn last night to discuss whether America is really facing an "epidemic" of school shootings. As Ryan notes, studies indicate that the stats show otherwise, and picks apart some of the most widely used claims made by opponents of gun rights.



    https://mises.org/power-market/ryan-...ingraham-angle
    Quote Originally Posted by Ron Paul View Post
    The intellectual battle for liberty can appear to be a lonely one at times. However, the numbers are not as important as the principles that we hold. Leonard Read always taught that "it's not a numbers game, but an ideological game." That's why it's important to continue to provide a principled philosophy as to what the role of government ought to be, despite the numbers that stare us in the face.
    Quote Originally Posted by Origanalist View Post
    This intellectually stimulating conversation is the reason I keep coming here.

  34. #120

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows



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