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Thread: Unemployment and Welfare

  1. #1

    Default Unemployment and Welfare

    According to some reports, the unemployment rate is now so low that employers can not find workers. This is anecdotal, and there may be more to the story, such as how hard an employer has really tried to find people, but let's assume for a moment that it is true.

    The next step is to look at the welfare and food stamp roles. How many people are able to work in some capacity, yet are not working because the welfare state pays them enough to satisfy them?

    What is being done to put people to work who can work, especially those that receive public assistance?
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  3. #2

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    I think what you're saying is that now is the best time to push through welfare reform. I'm already hearing some states are trying to do that, but they're adding work requirements instead of just cutting the programs.

    In other words, state legislators are trying to force people away from these programs instead of just cutting them and ending them. They want a temporary solution for a permanent problem, IMO. The smart thing to do now, while the official unemployment number is so low, is to dismantle the programs and let people figure out how to adjust on their own.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  4. #3

    Default

    I think the incentives to work need to come from both sides, reduction in welfare, and jobs that pay more than benefits offered by welfare. Many of the jobs "created" since 2008 have been very low pay, minimum wage (depending on state) and people can not afford to live working at these low pay jobs. Thus, govt subsidizes businesses that continually exploit their employees by not offering reasonable wages. Im not talking about being competitive, but just reasonable. People arent gonna apply for those jobs if they end up worse off than being on welfare and collecting more in benefits than one would have at a job. For example, our average price for rent for a one bedroom one bath apartment here is $1500 / month. That is not affordable on part time minimum wage. I can fault employers, but only so much. Yes, they are greedy and keep money for themselves. They raise prices once a year and dont give raises. But the employees they do have (Walmarx) tend to be subsidized by govt welfare, so its a feedback loop. They pay low, employees get some sort of govt assistance, and the employees stay at those jobs instead of walking off because they cant afford to live.

    Govt creates more problems than it solves. I think the real solution is to get Govt the $#@! out of employment and welfare as it only rewards big businesses and allows a slow transfer of wealth from those at the bottom to those at the top.

    The issue is quite complex and there are a lot of factors involved, and no, I didnt include everything that goes into it.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  5. #4

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    For example, our average price for rent for a one bedroom one bath apartment here is $1500 / month. That is not affordable on part time minimum wage. I can fault employers, but only so much. Yes, they are greedy and keep money for themselves. They raise prices once a year and dont give raises. But the employees they do have (Walmarx) tend to be subsidized by govt welfare, so its a feedback loop. They pay low, employees get some sort of govt assistance, and the employees stay at those jobs instead of walking off because they cant afford to live.
    I have no sympathy for anyone making minimum wage who lives in a place with $1500 a month. None. A person with $1500 a month rent should be making like 70k a year minimum. Not minimum wage. Otherwise they should be moving to a more affordable place. There are other places to live than California or New York or Boston.

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    I think the incentives to work need to come from both sides, reduction in welfare, and jobs that pay more than benefits offered by welfare. Many of the jobs "created" since 2008 have been very low pay, minimum wage (depending on state) and people can not afford to live working at these low pay jobs. Thus, govt subsidizes businesses that continually exploit their employees by not offering reasonable wages. Im not talking about being competitive, but just reasonable. People arent gonna apply for those jobs if they end up worse off than being on welfare and collecting more in benefits than one would have at a job. For example, our average price for rent for a one bedroom one bath apartment here is $1500 / month. That is not affordable on part time minimum wage. I can fault employers, but only so much. Yes, they are greedy and keep money for themselves. They raise prices once a year and dont give raises. But the employees they do have (Walmarx) tend to be subsidized by govt welfare, so its a feedback loop. They pay low, employees get some sort of govt assistance, and the employees stay at those jobs instead of walking off because they cant afford to live.

    Govt creates more problems than it solves. I think the real solution is to get Govt the $#@! out of employment and welfare as it only rewards big businesses and allows a slow transfer of wealth from those at the bottom to those at the top.

    The issue is quite complex and there are a lot of factors involved, and no, I didnt include everything that goes into it.
    This is quite accurate. In this case, what you have is corporate welfare disguised as a program for the poor. The government literally subsidizes the labor of businesses with low-skilled employees.

    End all corporate subsidies. Including this.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I have no sympathy for anyone making minimum wage who lives in a place with $1500 a month. None. A person with $1500 a month rent should be making like 70k a year minimum. Not minimum wage. Otherwise they should be moving to a more affordable place. There are other places to live than California or New York or Boston.
    That is no longer an option here. Like I said, that is AVERAGE price for a 1 Bedroom unit. I understand that you are getting at people living beyond their means, but what happens when its no longer a choice? I dont live in California, New York, or Boston, I live in Reno, and its a $#@!hole with skyhigh rents. Its become a trap, rents go up, pay does not, eventually, people dont have enough money to move to a more cost effective city, or even eat.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  8. #7

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    That is no longer an option here. Like I said, that is AVERAGE price for a 1 Bedroom unit. I understand that you are getting at people living beyond their means, but what happens when its no longer a choice? I dont live in California, New York, or Boston, I live in Reno, and its a $#@!hole with skyhigh rents. Its become a trap, rents go up, pay does not, eventually, people dont have enough money to move to a more cost effective city, or even eat.
    And then they move.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  9. #8

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptUSA View Post
    I think what you're saying is that now is the best time to push through welfare reform. I'm already hearing some states are trying to do that, but they're adding work requirements instead of just cutting the programs.

    In other words, state legislators are trying to force people away from these programs instead of just cutting them and ending them. They want a temporary solution for a permanent problem, IMO. The smart thing to do now, while the official unemployment number is so low, is to dismantle the programs and let people figure out how to adjust on their own.
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    I think the incentives to work need to come from both sides, reduction in welfare, and jobs that pay more than benefits offered by welfare. Many of the jobs "created" since 2008 have been very low pay, minimum wage (depending on state) and people can not afford to live working at these low pay jobs. Thus, govt subsidizes businesses that continually exploit their employees by not offering reasonable wages. Im not talking about being competitive, but just reasonable. People arent gonna apply for those jobs if they end up worse off than being on welfare and collecting more in benefits than one would have at a job. For example, our average price for rent for a one bedroom one bath apartment here is $1500 / month. That is not affordable on part time minimum wage. I can fault employers, but only so much. Yes, they are greedy and keep money for themselves. They raise prices once a year and dont give raises. But the employees they do have (Walmarx) tend to be subsidized by govt welfare, so its a feedback loop. They pay low, employees get some sort of govt assistance, and the employees stay at those jobs instead of walking off because they cant afford to live.

    Govt creates more problems than it solves. I think the real solution is to get Govt the $#@! out of employment and welfare as it only rewards big businesses and allows a slow transfer of wealth from those at the bottom to those at the top.

    The issue is quite complex and there are a lot of factors involved, and no, I didnt include everything that goes into it.
    Yes, there will never be a better time for reform. And I tend to agree that it will require cutting off a lot of people who are not severely disabled. Perhaps a time frame, like 6 months till cut-off.

    A "work-requirement" that just consists of "apply for jobs or try them for a day" is prone to fraud.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9

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    Does Welfare really pay most people that well to live comfortably? Maybe for those who have access to the Maximum Benefits, but how many people really have all the benefits? Probably many just have food stamps or some housing assistance.

    As for those seeking jobs, anyone who's been fired, has several jobs in their recent work history, or long employment gaps will have a really hard time not having their job application tossed immediately by HR.


    I suspect one of the main problems is that Employers are not finding enough 'Qualified' people with some related experience. Companies have increasingly become reluctant to want to train people from scratch because often they're free to seek higher paying employment after getting experience and then that company sees their time investment gone to a competitor.

    In cases of more basic service work, those potential workers may be off to gamble on college because service work pay is so pathetic.

  12. #10

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Does Welfare really pay most people that well to live comfortably?
    "Comfortable" is a relative term. In my experience, most people receiving these payments (let's not call them "benefits") long term, have either some sort of side-hustle going on that isn't reported or they're supplementing their lifestyle through family. Others are carefully crafting their work hours to not interfere with their payments. So yeah, they might not be comfortable to your standard, but to their own they are comfortable - otherwise, they would be changing something. This should be obvious.







    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    As for those seeking jobs, anyone who's been fired, has several jobs in their recent work history, or long employment gaps will have a really hard time not having their job application tossed immediately by HR.


    I suspect one of the main problems is that Employers are not finding enough 'Qualified' people with some related experience. Companies have increasingly become reluctant to want to train people from scratch because often they're free to seek higher paying employment after getting experience and then that company sees their time investment gone to a competitor.

    In cases of more basic service work, those potential workers may be off to gamble on college because service work pay is so pathetic.
    Of course the pay is pathetic when it is being subsidized! Stop the subsidies and the market will determine exactly how much the companies must pay in order to retain employees.

    And if someone's history is preventing them from being hired, then they need to build a new history and try again. It takes minimal effort to stand out in a low-skilled job, so it is super easy to get promotions and raises. We all had to start somewhere. If their job history is making them unattractive to employers, it's not the taxpayers' concern.
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  13. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Does Welfare really pay most people that well to live comfortably? Maybe for those who have access to the Maximum Benefits, but how many people really have all the benefits? Probably many just have food stamps or some housing assistance.

    As for those seeking jobs, anyone who's been fired, has several jobs in their recent work history, or long employment gaps will have a really hard time not having their job application tossed immediately by HR.


    I suspect one of the main problems is that Employers are not finding enough 'Qualified' people with some related experience. Companies have increasingly become reluctant to want to train people from scratch because often they're free to seek higher paying employment after getting experience and then that company sees their time investment gone to a competitor.

    In cases of more basic service work, those potential workers may be off to gamble on college because service work pay is so pathetic.
    Most people like to stay put imo. Granted after training if they find out they are being under paid of course that's a good reason to move on. I would think the training company would know that or at least figure it out.
    A company that doesn't train their employees will do worse than one who does. Less will want to work at the non training place. If they train and pay as well as their competitor they may "trade" a minute number of employees.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  14. #12

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post

    As for those seeking jobs, anyone who's been fired, has several jobs in their recent work history, or long employment gaps will have a really hard time not having their job application tossed immediately by HR.

    That's not true in a tight labor market. Employers *have* to loosen their standards.



    In cases of more basic service work, those potential workers may be off to gamble on college because service work pay is so pathetic.
    Which is awesome, except that we shouldn't be handing out food stamps to able-bodied college students.

    A guy posted his sad tale in another forum I read. He's 18 and his Mom kicked him out. He had a couple thousand dollars in the bank and a car, but no clue about how to "adult." Not a single person suggested he get a job and/or a cheap apartment. Get food stamps, apply for benefits, apply for college in the fall.....it was incredibly disheartening.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  15. #13

    Default

    Some info on welfare (SNAP or Food Stamps):

    https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-a...y-and-benefits

    The Three-Month Time Limit

    Many adults without dependents need to meet certain requirements to remain eligible for SNAP

    A provision in the 1996 welfare reform law limited individuals who are over age 18 and under 50 to three months of SNAP benefits out of every three years unless they are working or in a work or training program 20 hours a week. Some individuals are exempt from this requirement, such as those who live with children in the household, those determined to be physically or mentally unfit for work, pregnant women, and others determined to be exempt from SNAP work requirements.

    The law allows states to suspend the three-month limit in areas with high and sustained unemployment; many states qualified due to the Great Recession and its aftermath and waived the time limit throughout the state through 2015. However, as unemployment rates fell, fewer areas across the country qualified for statewide waivers. In all but a few states, the time limit was in effect in some or all of the state by January 2016. CBPP estimates that at least 500,000 individuals lost eligibility over the course of 2016.

    The time limit continues to apply in at least a portion of the state in most states. More information on the time limit generally is available at http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/able-bo...endents-abawds. For detailed eligibility requirements in a given state, consult the state SNAP agency.
    Take as an example a family of three: if that family had no income, it would receive the maximum benefit of $504 per month; if it had $600 in net monthly income, it would receive the maximum benefit ($504) minus 30 percent of its net income (30 percent of $600 is $180), or $324. On average, SNAP households received about $254 a month in fiscal year 2017. The average SNAP benefit per person was about $126 per month, which works out to about $1.40 per person per meal.
    More at link.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  16. #14

    Default

    But why would I be paying for someone who doesn't work? If people haven't worked to save for college, they should not go.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  17. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    In cases of more basic service work, those potential workers may be off to gamble on college because service work pay is so pathetic.
    Service work might start out with low pay, but people should be looking to improve their skills and advance. And then there are the benefits. I'm in a service type job I had never done before, and I got promoted with raises twice within a year. I'm nearing retirement, and it's a fine job. Everyone isn't cut out to be an executive.

    And everyone isn't cut out to sit at a desk. When I was teaching I had a couple of students I knew would never go to college. They were not cut out for school, and being indoors was very hard on them. One of them graduated and went into construction. He owns his own business and is doing very well for himself. He was plenty smart, but he was never better than when he was using his brawn to some good end.

    In my job I talk to contractors all day, and it's clear they are very bright people who really enjoy what they do.
    "There are two freedoms - the false, where a man is free to do what he likes; the true, where he is free to do what he ought."~~Charles Kingsley

  18. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Some info on welfare (SNAP or Food Stamps):

    https://www.cbpp.org/research/food-a...y-and-benefits
    The Three-Month Time Limit

    Many adults without dependents need to meet certain requirements to remain eligible for SNAP

    A provision in the 1996 welfare reform law limited individuals who are over age 18 and under 50 to three months of SNAP benefits out of every three years unless they are working or in a work or training program 20 hours a week. Some individuals are exempt from this requirement, such as those who live with children in the household, those determined to be physically or mentally unfit for work, pregnant women, and others determined to be exempt from SNAP work requirements.

    The law allows states to suspend the three-month limit in areas with high and sustained unemployment; many states qualified due to the Great Recession and its aftermath and waived the time limit throughout the state through 2015. However, as unemployment rates fell, fewer areas across the country qualified for statewide waivers. In all but a few states, the time limit was in effect in some or all of the state by January 2016. CBPP estimates that at least 500,000 individuals lost eligibility over the course of 2016.

    The time limit continues to apply in at least a portion of the state in most states. More information on the time limit generally is available at http://www.fns.usda.gov/snap/able-bo...endents-abawds. For detailed eligibility requirements in a given state, consult the state SNAP agency.
    Take as an example a family of three: if that family had no income, it would receive the maximum benefit of $504 per month; if it had $600 in net monthly income, it would receive the maximum benefit ($504) minus 30 percent of its net income (30 percent of $600 is $180), or $324. On average, SNAP households received about $254 a month in fiscal year 2017. The average SNAP benefit per person was about $126 per month, which works out to about $1.40 per person per meal.

    More at link.
    The 3 month limit isn't followed much imo. Over 40 million on food stamps compared to 27 million before the crash. It's been over 10 years and while the population grew ~8% since 2007 food stamp usage is 50 percent higher compared to 2007

    I can eat on $126 a month if I make all my meals at home.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft



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  20. #17

    Default

    There should be no food stamps .
    Do something Danke

  21. #18

    Default

    Yup. The very existence of food stamps is an indication that their is a major problem with our money system. Food prices go up, wages stay the same. Food prices go up even more, wages still dont change. Food continues to go up, wages still dont go up. Thats called Stagflation, but according to the Fed and Zippy, food should not be used as an indicator of Inflation.

    All Roads Lead To Stagflation - This Is How We Got Here...
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ow-we-got-here
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  22. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Yup. The very existence of food stamps is an indication that their is a major problem with our money system. Food prices go up, wages stay the same. Food prices go up even more, wages still dont change. Food continues to go up, wages still dont go up. Thats called Stagflation, but according to the Fed and Zippy, food should not be used as an indicator of Inflation.

    All Roads Lead To Stagflation - This Is How We Got Here...
    https://www.zerohedge.com/news/2018-...ow-we-got-here
    CPI inflation rate includes food and energy. There is a version known as "core CPI" which leaves those out because they can be more vollitile seasonally. The one you see in newspapers is the one including food and energy. All roads do not lead to it. In the US we only saw it in the 1970's in our 200+ years of history.

    Stagflation refers to high rates of inflation accompanied by slow economic growth. We are not seeing high rates of inflation currently. Stagflation is actually pretty rare.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stagflation.asp

    What is 'Stagflation'

    A condition of slow economic growth and relatively high unemployment – economic stagnation – accompanied by rising prices, or inflation, or inflation and a decline in Gross Domestic Product (GDP). Stagflation is an economic problem defined in equal parts by its rarity and by the lack of consensus among academics on how exactly it comes to pass.

    BREAKING DOWN 'Stagflation'
    Usually, when unemployment is high, spending declines, as do prices of goods. Stagflation occurs when the prices of goods rise while unemployment increases and spending declines. Stagflation can prove to be a particularly tough problem for governments to deal with due to the fact that most policies designed to lower inflation tend to make it tougher for the unemployed, and policies designed to ease unemployment raise inflation.

    This happened in the United States during the 1970s when world oil prices rose dramatically, increasing the costs of goods and contributing to a increase in unemployment. The following stagnation increased the inflationary effects on the economy. Since the crisis in the 1970s, there has been little consensus on what exactly caused the economic problem. Each school of economics offers their own understanding on what exactly went wrong and why.

    Theories on the Causes of Stagflation

    There are two main theories on what causes stagflation. One theory states that this economic phenomenon is caused when a sudden increase in the cost of oil reduces an economy's productive capacity. Because transportation costs rise, producing products and getting them to shelves gets more expensive and prices rise even as people get laid off.

    Another theory is that the confluence of stagnation and inflation are results of poorly made economic policy. Simply allowing inflation to go rampant, and then suddenly snapping the reigns on inflation is one example of poor policy that some have argued can contribute to stagflation, while others cite harsh regulation of markets, goods, and labor combined with allowing central banks to print excessive amounts of money are cited as another possible cause of stagflation.

    Jane Jacobs saw the inability of the major economic schools of thought to come to a conclusion on why stagflation occurred in the first place as a symptom of misplacing their scholarly focus on the nation as the primary economic engine as opposed to the city. It was her belief that in order to avoid the phenomenon of stagflation, that a country needed to provide an incentive to develop "import-replacing cities," that is, cities that balance import with production. This idea, essentially diversifying the economies of cities, was critiqued for it’s lack of scholarship by some, but held weight with others.

    Contemporary economists like Oliver Blanchard cite both supply shocks on the prices of goods and worker output, as well as incorrect predictions made by Keynesian economics as the cause of stagflation and the inability of economics to understand it.

    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-19-2018 at 04:59 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  23. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    CPI inflation rate includes food and energy. There is a version known as "core CPI" which leaves those out because they can be more vollitile seasonally. The one you see in newspapers is the one including food and energy. All roads do not lead to it. In the US we only saw it in the 1970's in our 200+ years of history.

    Stagflation refers to high rates of inflation accompanied by slow economic growth. We are not seeing high rates of inflation currently. Stagflation is actually pretty rare.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stagflation.asp
    Fed Apologist. Of course you'll make claims that say one has nothing to do with the other when you watch the overall trend of price of everything going UP UP UP and say "oh no, thats perfectly normal". Sure, in a Dishonest Money System.

    -REP

    It is time for you to stop defending the source of our problems.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  24. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Fed Apologist. Of course you'll make claims that say one has nothing to do with the other when you watch the overall trend of price of everything going UP UP UP and say "oh no, thats perfectly normal". Sure, in a Dishonest Money System.

    -REP

    It is time for you to stop defending the source of our problems.
    You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to DamianTV again...

  25. #22

    Default

    If we switched to Gold, is there anything preventing business from paying low wages in Gold while still charging high prices for Food or Housing?

  26. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    CPI inflation rate includes food and energy. There is a version known as "core CPI" which leaves those out because they can be more vollitile seasonally. The one you see in newspapers is the one including food and energy. All roads do not lead to it. In the US we only saw it in the 1970's in our 200+ years of history.

    Stagflation refers to high rates of inflation accompanied by slow economic growth. We are not seeing high rates of inflation currently. Stagflation is actually pretty rare.

    https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/stagflation.asp
    We know CPI is meaningless. It says the cost of healthcare insurance is less than 1 percent when it's over to 10 percent. The median family makes 56-57k a year. One percent of that is $570 a year. They're paying around 5k a year.
    go small or go home
    Taxation is Theft

  27. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    If we switched to Gold, is there anything preventing business from paying low wages in Gold while still charging high prices for Food or Housing?
    Not just gold, but Fractional Reserve Lending practices have to go also. Reserve requirements are now something like 1%. Other than that, ALL Free Market and get govt the $#@! out of everything.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  29. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by loveshiscountry View Post
    We know CPI is meaningless. It says the cost of healthcare insurance is less than 1 percent when it's over to 10 percent. The median family makes 56-57k a year. One percent of that is $570 a year. They're paying around 5k a year.
    Link? Healthcare costs account for ten percent of the core CPI. That fits with your numbers (well, not the one percent figure)



    https://www.clevelandfed.org/newsroo...ation-gap.aspx
    Last edited by Zippyjuan; 05-20-2018 at 12:09 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  30. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Fed Apologist. Of course you'll make claims that say one has nothing to do with the other when you watch the overall trend of price of everything going UP UP UP and say "oh no, thats perfectly normal". Sure, in a Dishonest Money System.

    -REP

    It is time for you to stop defending the source of our problems.
    Examples of money systems where prices have never gone up?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  31. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    Not just gold, but Fractional Reserve Lending practices have to go also. Reserve requirements are now something like 1%. Other than that, ALL Free Market and get govt the $#@! out of everything.
    Nobody should be allowed to borrow money?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  32. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    If we switched to Gold, is there anything preventing business from paying low wages in Gold while still charging high prices for Food or Housing?
    Nope.
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

  33. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Nobody should be allowed to borrow money?
    Below cost. It encourages malinvestment according to Ron Paul.
    Truth is a social construct.

  34. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    Below cost. It encourages malinvestment according to Ron Paul.
    What is "below cost"? A negative interest rate (ie if I pay you to borrow money from me?)

    Is a loan "below cost" if both parties agree that the interest rate is acceptable to both parties- the borrower and the lender?

    Wouldn't any restrictions against lending be against free markets?
    Quote Originally Posted by NorthCarolinaLiberty View Post

    Half the crap I write here is just to entertain myself.
    I am Zippy and I approve of this post. But you don't have to.

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