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Thread: CA - State looks to ban drive thru windows and gas stations near train stations

  1. #1

    Exclamation CA - State looks to ban drive thru windows and gas stations near train stations

    That's one of the troubles with the Beltwaytarian crowd, like those at Reason.

    Logic?

    There is no $#@!ing logic, government does it because it can.




    Sacramento Wants to Boost Rail Ridership By Banning Drive-Throughs and Gas Stations Near Transit

    http://reason.com/blog/2018/05/14/sa...rail-ridership

    The logic of the policy is perplexing.

    Christian Britschgi|May. 14, 2018 3:45 pm

    New York, which saw subway ridership plunge by 30 million trips from 2016 to 2017, is cracking down on transit's competition, with politicians pondering a cap on the number of rideshare vehicles allowed in the city and a mandatory floor for Uber and Lyft prices. Los Angeles, where transit use is stubbornly stuck at about 5 percent of all trips, is spending billions to build out its light rail network and cluster more development around transit stops. Washington is investing in flashy marketing campaigns and a new merch shop to reverse its Metro system's near 20 percent decline in ridership since 2012.

    But Sacramento has the most creative approach. Absurd, but creative. City staff there are drafting an ordinance that would ban building new gas stations, drive-throughs, and other auto-related businesses within a quarter mile of any of the city's 23 light rail stations. (Also to be prohibited, for reasons unclear: marijuana cultivation sites.) Other businesses "not considered transit-supportive"—car lots, auto repair businesses, manufacturing sites, wholesale outlets—would still be allowed, but only if the city grants them a special permit.

    Preexisting businesses would be grandfathered in.

    Though the plan is still in the early stages, the Sacramento Bee reports that it has already attracted support from some city councilmen and from the Sacramento Regional Transit (SacRT), which operates the city's buses and light rail network. "I'm encouraged that this will attract new riders," SacRT head Henry Li tells the Bee.

    How exactly this is supposed to attract new riders is a bit of a mystery.

    Would a motorist really decide to switch to transit if using a drive-through window is not an option, or would he instead just patronize a different fast-food joint that's further away from a light rail station? Would someone really leave her car at home because she can't gas up near a transit stop that she isn't using already?

    If anything, this seems like it would further deter light rail by inconveniencing people whose commutes involve a mix of transit and driving. It's fair to assume that fewer people will use the 16 park-and-rides located at Sacramento's light rail stations if they can't get gas or food anywhere nearby.

    The way city planners explain it, booting businesses that cater to motorists will open up room for new development that will better serve riders, thus boosting ridership.

    "You wouldn't ride light rail to a gas station, but you would ride it to buy groceries, get a haircut or have a meal," city planner Jim McDonald tells the Bee.

    Yet the businesses targeted by this ordinance can and do cater to both transit-takers and motorists alike. After all, restaurants with drive-through windows typically have dining rooms too. And plenty of gas stations make money selling not just low-margin gas but soda, snacks, and cigarettes.

    Surely some businesses would think twice about locating near light rail if they knew that their access to customers who drive will be curtailed. Serving a transit-only crowd probably doesn't sound very enticing right now, given that the number of people using Sacramento's transit system has been spiraling downward for years. In 2017 alone, ridership declined by about 10 percent.

    That reflects a larger trend. In fiscal year 2009, the city's two light rail lines serviced an average of 58,000 riders every weekday. By the end of fiscal year 2016, that number had fallen to about 44,600 weekday riders, even though the city had opened a whole new light rail line during that time. According to a study by the Cato Institute's Randal O'Toole, less than 3 percent of commutes are taken via transit in the Sacramento urban area.

    Transportation works best when people can make real choices about what mode of travel works best for them, and when businesses can dynamically respond to those choices. Policy makers' role should be to facilitate these choices, not to try to reverse them—and especially not with a measure as hamfisted as this one.
    “Civilizations die from suicide, not by murder.” - Arnold Toynbee



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  3. #2
    If there is no need for rail, just create one.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    If there is no need for rail, just create one.
    I'm sure they will get there soon enough.

  5. #4
    Is this protectionism?

  6. #5
    You will use public transit. Big Mommy insists...plus it's a great place to shoot up, for those so inclined.

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6
    And it's so entertaining...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  8. #7
    Pro tip: always bring an old cell phone with you on public transit...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8
    Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along. All is well.

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along. All is well.

  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    [...]

    Logic?

    There is no $#@!ing logic, government does it because it can.

    Sacramento Wants to Boost Rail Ridership By Banning Drive-Throughs and Gas Stations Near Transit

    [...] Sacramento has the most creative approach. Absurd, but creative. City staff there are drafting an ordinance that would ban building new gas stations, drive-throughs, and other auto-related businesses within a quarter mile of any of the city's 23 light rail stations. (Also to be prohibited, for reasons unclear: marijuana cultivation sites.) Other businesses "not considered transit-supportive"—car lots, auto repair businesses, manufacturing sites, wholesale outlets—would still be allowed, but only if the city grants them a special permit.

    [...]
    Sheep require shepherds.
    The Bastiat Collection · FREE PDF · FREE EPUB · PAPER
    Frédéric Bastiat (1801-1850)

    • "When law and morality are in contradiction to each other, the citizen finds himself in the cruel alternative of either losing his moral sense, or of losing his respect for the law."
      -- The Law (p. 54)
    • "Government is that great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."
      -- Government (p. 99)
    • "[W]ar is always begun in the interest of the few, and at the expense of the many."
      -- Economic Sophisms - Second Series (p. 312)
    • "There are two principles that can never be reconciled - Liberty and Constraint."
      -- Harmonies of Political Economy - Book One (p. 447)

    · tu ne cede malis sed contra audentior ito ·

  13. #11
    Everyone should spend time everyday in a homeless shelter, an insane asylum and a drug den. It's by design...

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    And it's so entertaining...

    Watched a crackhead like that down in Miami, kept an eye on him until he snatched a woman's purse, hauled ass and caught him just outside the Walgreens on South Beach.

    Pulled a knife, I pulled my sidearm and lit him up with the laser sight.

    And amazingly, he calmed down.

    How about that?

  15. #13
    So glad the pious planners are at it again. What would we ever do without them?
    "And now that the legislators and do-gooders have so futilely inflicted so many systems upon society, may they finally end where they should have begun: May they reject all systems, and try liberty; for liberty is an acknowledgment of faith in God and His works." - Bastiat

    "It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere." - Voltaire

  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Watched a crackhead like that down in Miami, kept an eye on him until he snatched a woman's purse, hauled ass and caught him just outside the Walgreens on South Beach.

    Pulled a knife, I pulled my sidearm and lit him up with the laser sight.

    And amazingly, he calmed down.

    How about that?
    Good work.

    Interesting. So some portion of the "crazy" may be an act based on what pays the best and what they can get away with?

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Good work.

    Interesting. So some portion of the "crazy" may be an act based on what pays the best and what they can get away with?
    I'm convinced of it.

    Or maybe you need extra servings of crazy to keep acting up when a laser and gun barrel is pointed at your chest from 10 feet away.

    Great scene from a great movie produced by a great libertarian activist, btw.

    RIP John Russo.

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Nevermind. Nothing to see here. Move along. All is well.

    1:18

    /thread
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
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    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."



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  20. #17
    Sacramento is devoid of logic and has been for some time . Nor will it ever be restored until they are all dead .

  21. #18
    These new rules would work very well with a big increase in gas taxes. A lot of synergy to be found there. Just a thought.
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
    - Kim Kardashian

    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    These new rules would work very well with a big increase in gas taxes. A lot of synergy to be found there. Just a thought.
    Of course. Raising gas taxes is a given. But that doesn't work anymore on electric vehicles. Think about this: a tax on tires. No one can drive without tires.
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    Of course. Raising gas taxes is a given. But that doesn't work anymore on electric vehicles. Think about this: a tax on tires. No one can drive without tires.
    Higher electricity taxes perhaps?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
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    A Zero Hedge comment

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Higher electricity taxes perhaps?
    Most definitely. And parking fees too. Thinking like a progressive is easy!
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  25. #22
    Is there anything California doesn't want to get banned.?
    "Perhaps one of the most important accomplishments of my administration is minding my own business."

    Calvin Coolidge

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Is there anything California doesn't want to get banned.?
    Perversion.....Communism...... Pretty much anything normal humans would want banned.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Globalist View Post
    Is there anything California doesn't want to get banned.?
    Must ban electric scooters. Only publik transport for you, comrade.

    It's funny to hear the dance that these progressive companies do with the Big Mommy government. "We love regulation. Just tell us what to do and we will jump through your hoops. Please don't ban us. We love Big Brother."

    People In San Francisco Are Really Pissed Over These Electric Scooters (HBO)

    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul

    Proponent of real science.
    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.



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