46% in favor of Comrade Bernie's "Government Jobs for All" concept

[Anti Federalist]

Freedom.

It's not popular.

I'm sure allowing millions and millions of migrants from around the world, who consistently and repeatedly poll in favor of larger and more active government, into the voting booths, will solve this.


46% Favor Government Guaranteed Jobs for All

http://www.rasmussenreports.com/publ...d_jobs_for_all

Monday, April 30, 2018

Senator Bernie Sanders is looking ahead to the 2020 presidential election with a proposed federal government program that guarantees all Americans a job with health insurance. Nearly half of voters like the idea.

The survey of 1,000 Likely U.S. Voters was conducted on April 24-25, 2018 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 3 percentage points with a 95% level of confidence. Field work for all Rasmussen Reports surveys is conducted by Pulse Opinion Research, LLC. See methodology.

[r3volution 3.0]

Freedom.

It's not popular.

Correct

I'm sure allowing millions and millions of migrants from around the world, who consistently and repeatedly poll in favor of larger and more active government, into the voting booths, will solve this.

I'm sure that the 'oi polloi polled were overwhelmingly native born Americans of European descent.

Focusing on immigrants is ignoring the real source of the problem.

[shakey1]

Free stuff.

It is popular.

[r3volution 3.0]

Free stuff.

It is popular.

Approximately the same as current US GDP, so requiring actual communism (and then would come up short, as that would crush GDP)

But don't worry scro, scarcity's unfair; we just need to vote to abolish it.

[Madison320]

Approximately the same as current US GDP, so requiring actual communism (and then would come up short, as that would crush GDP)

But don't worry scro, scarcity's unfair; we just need to vote to abolish it.

I think that's 18 trillion a year! I figure the jobs program would easily cost 4 trillion a year. If they actually implemented a guaranteed jobs program the entire economy would collapse in a few weeks, guaranteed. I'm almost 99% sure even Sanders is not serious about it. I think it's just bait and switch.

The whole idea is so laughable that it's not even worth debating, yet I'm reading comments online and most people are seem to be supporting it. That's the really scary part.

This is why some people should absolutely not be allowed to vote. We are not supposed to be a democracy.

[pcosmar]

Free stuff.

It is popular.

Cool,,
and they can just print all the money they need.

[Anti Federalist]

I'm sure that the 'oi polloi polled were overwhelmingly native born Americans of European descent.

Focusing on immigrants is ignoring the real source of the problem.

Not focusing on it, just pointing out, again, that it is a significant part of the problem that will need to be addressed if there is going to be any chance of turning this around.

[Anti Federalist]

Approximately the same as current US GDP, so requiring actual communism (and then would come up short, as that would crush GDP)

But don't worry scro, scarcity's unfair; we just need to vote to abolish it.

I hear ya scro, lots of 'tards lead kick ass lives.

[r3volution 3.0]

Not focusing on it, just pointing out, again, that it is a significant part of the problem that will need to be addressed if there is going to be any chance of turning this around.

If by "significant part of the problem," you mean, "wasn't even on US soil at the time all the really pernicious legislation was passed," yes.

I hear ya scro, lots of 'tards lead kick ass lives.

[specsaregood]

Freedom.
It's not popular.

Half the people in favor are probably people that can't otherwise get such a job and want one and the other half are employed people jealous of the people without jobs having so much freetime while collecting the dole.

[Swordsmyth]

If by "significant part of the problem," you mean, "wasn't even on US soil at the time all the really pernicious legislation was passed," yes.

You can keep pretending they don't make the problem worse and reduce the odds of fixing it but that won't change reality.

[H_H]

46% Favor Government Guaranteed Jobs for All

Breakdown by demographic

Focusing on immigrants is ignoring the real source of the problem.

True. Obviously. Let us focus instead on the high-agency people who actually determine the fate of our society. Moving the acceptable Overton Window for the opinions these men are allowed to hold on important issues, such as culture, values, and immigration, will act to reinvigorate and could ultimately save our society.

It's a long shot but worth a try.

[r3volution 3.0]

You can keep pretending they don't make the problem worse and reduce the odds of fixing it but that won't change reality.

You didn't address my point about the (lack of) immigrant responsibility for modern America's real problems: welfare, Fed, income tax, et al.

Do you acknowledge that the current Leviathan is a result of the voting behavior of native born Americans of European descent?

...and, before some over-eager person intervenes with a "O so you're blaming whites" type comment, no, I'm blaming people; it's the same all over.

[Swordsmyth]

You didn't address my point about the (lack of) immigrant responsibility for modern America's real problems: welfare, Fed, income tax, et al.

Do you acknowledge that the current Leviathan is a result of the voting behavior of native born Americans of European descent?

...and, before some over-eager person intervenes with a "O so you're blaming whites" type comment, no, I'm blaming people; it's the same all over.

Too many Americans have voted for very bad things but in many cases it was very close, the immigrants from those times and the first few generations of the descendants of previous immigrants voted for the bad things at a worse rate than the "natives", possibly at a bad enough rate to have tipped the scales in favor of the bad things.
Too many Americans still vote for bad things but bringing in too many immigrants who will vote poorly at a higher rate will tip more close races the wrong way and will make it increasingly hard to move things the right way.

[pcosmar]

You can keep pretending they don't make the problem worse and reduce the odds of fixing it but that won't change reality.

But I can see it a totally irrelevant. as in affecting me none at all ever.

The police are a bigger issue..
an economy in collapse through no fault of the poor unemployed here or elsewhere.
An eminent War on the middle east,, which we are embroiled.
A ridiculous Government threatening the Nuclear World powers daily with challenges and threats.

I'll sit on a curb with the Mexican and the Somalian and share a 40.

[Swordsmyth]

But I can see it a totally irrelevant. as in affecting me none at all ever.

The police are a bigger issue..
an economy in collapse through no fault of the poor unemployed here or elsewhere.
An eminent War on the middle east,, which we are embroiled.
A ridiculous Government threatening the Nuclear World powers daily with challenges and threats.

I'll sit on a curb with the Mexican and the Somalian and share a 40.

If you don't believe that we can make things better or even slow the decline then nothing matters.
For those of us who believe we can make a difference excessive immigration is a serious problem.

[pcosmar]

If you don't believe that we can make things better or even slow the decline then nothing matters.
For those of us who believe we can make a difference excessive immigration is a serious problem.

I could pray that Yellowstone erupts.. That might be an improvement.

I expect decline.. but see immigrants as irrelevant to the issues.

Welfare is the issue. End that and end the draw. but until that ends the issue will remain.

Collapse the economy and welfare ends. Government Theft will increase..
Police will be paid with your daughters.

[Swordsmyth]

I could pray that Yellowstone erupts.. That might be an improvement.

I expect decline.. but see immigrants as irrelevant to the issues.

Then we will never agree because I believe we can make a difference.

Welfare is the issue. End that and end the draw. but until that ends the issue will remain.

They would still come here for the prosperity, I am constantly told that many of them are hard workers who come here for the opportunity and there is SOME truth to that, but if we allow too many of them to come for the opportunity they will make our politics worse and destroy the opportunity for everyone.

[Madison320]

You can keep pretending they don't make the problem worse and reduce the odds of fixing it but that won't change reality.

They do but immigration probably only makes it about .01% worse. When people make it sound like it's a HUGE problem, like 50%, it distracts from the real problem, which is the size and scope of government.

[Brian4Liberty]

You didn't address my point about the (lack of) immigrant responsibility for modern America's real problems: welfare, Fed, income tax, et al.

Do you acknowledge that the current Leviathan is a result of the voting behavior of native born Americans of European descent?

...and, before some over-eager person intervenes with a "O so you're blaming whites" type comment, no, I'm blaming people; it's the same all over.

Talking out both sides of your mouth? "People are just people, but it's really the people from Europe".

And as a matter of fact, yes, it was immigrants that brought the ideas that result in the failed Leviathan state, unless you are claiming Karl Marx was born in the US...

[Swordsmyth]

They do but immigration probably only makes it about .01% worse. When people make it sound like it's a HUGE problem, like 50%, it distracts from the real problem, which is the size and scope of government.

It isn't 50% but it is much more than .01%, it is enough to to make a noticeable difference in how bad things are and how hard it will be to fix them.

[Zippyjuan]

Free stuff.

It is popular.

I think those costs are over ten years.

http://money.cnn.com/2017/09/12/news...all/index.html

How much would all this cost? Nearly $1.4 trillion a year.

To pay for it, all Americans and employers would see a tax hike. Sanders called for a new 2.2% income tax on all Americans and a 6.2% levy on employers. He would also increase taxes on the wealthy.

But, he argues, people would save money since they would no longer have to pay monthly premiums or deductibles. A family of four earning $50,000 would save more than $5,800 each year.

"As a patient, all you need to do is go to the doctor and show your insurance card," his campaign proposal said.

Businesses, meanwhile, would save more than $9,400 annually since they would no longer have to pick up their share of workers' health insurance premiums.

http://college.usatoday.com/2017/04/...an-would-cost/

The estimated cost of the program is $47 billion a year. That would cover, Sanders estimates, 67% of the $70 billion it costs for tuition at public colleges and universities. States, he proposes, would cover the remaining 33%.

That would make them 10% of US GDP.

[r3volution 3.0]

Too many Americans have voted for very bad things but in many cases it was very close, the immigrants from those times and the first few generations of the descendants of previous immigrants voted for the bad things at a worse rate than the "natives", possibly at a bad enough rate to have tipped the scales in favor of the bad things.

I don't know which time period you're referencing, but, at least in the 19th century (to 1896, when William Jennings Bryan $#@!ed everything up), immigrants (primarily Germans, Italians, and Irish) voted overwhelmingly in favor of the then small government, Jeffersonian Democrat Party (opposed to inflationary monetary policy [in favor of the gold standard], opposed to subsidies to [largely Northern] industrial enterprises, opposes to protectionist tariffs [to protect those same Northern enterprises], opposed to prohibition of alcohol, opposed to attempts by the then GOP to outlaw German or Italian parochial schools and force everyone into a WASP, low-church dominated, tax-payer financed public school system, in favor of States' rights in general against an increasingly overweening federal government). Meanwhile, native born people (at least in the North, "yankees") voted overwhelmingly for the then big government GOP, representing the opposite of all of the aforementioned policies. The civil war was essentially a fight on these terms. Had the immigrants not happened to live in the North, and been impressed at gun point into the Union army, there is no question that they would have preferred the Confederate cause. The repeated riots in the Northern cities evidence this.

[Swordsmyth]

I don't know which time period you're referencing, but, at least in the 19th century (to 1896, when William Jennings Bryan $#@!ed everything up), immigrants (primarily Germans, Italians, and Irish) voted overwhelmingly in favor of the then small government, Jeffersonian Democrat Party (opposed to inflationary monetary policy [in favor of the gold standard], opposed to subsidies to [largely Northern] industrial enterprises, opposes to protectionist tariffs [to protect those same Northern enterprises], opposed to prohibition of alcohol, opposed to attempts by the then GOP to outlaw German or Italian parochial schools and force everyone into a WASP, low-church dominated, tax-payer financed public school system, in favor of States' rights in general against an increasingly overweening federal government). Meanwhile, native born people (at least in the North, "yankees") voted overwhelmingly for the then big government GOP, representing the opposite of all of the aforementioned policies. The civil war was essentially a fight on these terms. Had the immigrants not happened to live in the North, and been impressed at gun point into the Union army, there is no question that they would have preferred the Confederate cause. The repeated riots in the Northern cities evidence this.

Your claims are disputable and have been disputed before but even if we accept them the worst damage was done in the 20th Century.
Even if we grant you the past all the way up to WWII it doesn't matter, what matters is the present and the future, the rest of the world is much more communist than the US and letting too many in will destroy us.

[r3volution 3.0]

Talking out both sides of your mouth? "People are just people, but it's really the people from Europe".

Just one side, in fact; look, I wrote a whole extra line of text to make this plain for, just such an occasion.

...and, before some over-eager person intervenes with a "O so you're blaming whites" type comment, no, I'm blaming people; it's the same all over.

...

And as a matter of fact, yes, it was immigrants that brought the ideas that result in the failed Leviathan state, unless you are claiming Karl Marx was born in the US...

1. Karl Marx never lived or voted in the United States. If you're objection is to foreign ideas (and not just foreign people), you might have to expand the program to something like the isolation which China 'enjoyed' leading up to its humiliation and conquest in the 19th century. Do you have a specific plan for the burning or disposal by other means of the books/blogs/etc which might be crossing the border and tainting the ever-liberty-loving minds of native born Americans?

2. As for the reality of voting behavior by different groups, I've just addressed that in some detail. See post #23.

[pcosmar]

They would still come here for the prosperity,

Good,, my ancestors too. Lots of room,, and get the government out of the way there would be jobs for them and more.

[r3volution 3.0]

Your claims are disputable and have been disputed before but even if we accept them the worst damage was done in the 20th Century.
Even if we grant you the past all the way up to WWII it doesn't matter, what matters is the present and the future, the rest of the world is much more communist than the US and letting too many in will destroy us.

What matters is that history plainly refutes your claim that natives = libertarians, immigrants = socialists. It's hilarious that people whose own grandparents are responsible, directly and indisputably (as a simple matter of what year laws were passed), for all the serious problems in this country have the gall to blame the people who arrived last week. It is yet another example of what's wrong with democracy; the vox populi is divine (or something, if they're not Mexicans, or Catholic Germans, depending on which century we're in), and so any failing of the state has to be blamed on some magical deus ex machina.

P.S. I forgot to address this:

the rest of the world is much more communist than the US and letting too many in will destroy us

That is patently false. The US is not the freest country in the world, not remotely.

The US is presently a typical democratic socialist state, as are most "developed" states around the world.

Singapore, the United Arab Emirates, Hong Kong; these are the models of liberalism in the world today.

[pcosmar]

and letting too many in will destroy us.

Who the phuck is "us"??

please do not include me in your wild paranoia. I take reality seriously.

[H_H]

I am constantly told that many of them come here for the opportunity

Opportunity to what?

To access white people!

They have opportunity galore in their home countries. There's opportunity all across this big, exciting world of ours. They lack just one thing: living in close proximity to one very successful racial group, in the societies which that group built.

Why not stay home and build their own awesome societies, their own awesome way? Sounds great to me!

Sounds great to everybody!

That's the thing to do.

[Swordsmyth]

Who the phuck is "us"??

please do not include me in your wild paranoia. I take reality seriously.

"Us" is all the people who are already here who will be subject to the communism the immigrants will promote in our country.