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Thread: Mel Gibson to direct another WW2 epic "Destroyer"

  1. #1

    Exclamation Mel Gibson to direct another WW2 epic "Destroyer"



    Mel Gibson Eyes Kamikaze War Thriller 'Destroyer' as Next Directing Gig (Exclusive)

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ng-gig-1107033

    Mel Gibson is readying another trip behind the camera.

    Gibson will helm Destroyer, a World War II naval war movie from Hollywood Gang Productions, making the project his follow-up to Hacksaw Ridge, the 2016 war drama that served as his directorial comeback.

    The timing of Destroyer — the fall is a possibility — is in flux as Gibson is also being courted for a role opposite Mark Wahlberg in The Six Billion Dollar Man, Warner Bros.’ big-screen take on the 1970s television series.

    Six Billion Dollar Man is due to begin shooting in late summer and go into the fall, which could push Gibson’s plans into the winter.

    Destroyer is based on the nonfiction book Hell From the Heavens: The Epic Story of the USS Laffey and World War II’s Greatest Kamikaze Attack by John Wukovits. Rosalind Ross, who worked on the TV series Matador and is Gibson’s longtime girlfriend, wrote the script.

    Just as Hacksaw Ridge dealt with the Battle of Okinawa in the Pacific Theater during World War II, Destroyer also tackles the subject, although from a different angle. Hell From the Heavens tells the heroic story of how the crewmen of the Laffey defended their ship from an astounding 22 kamikaze attacks on April 16, 1945.

    As for Six Billion Dollar Man, it is unclear what role Gibson is wanted for. Wahlberg is playing Col. Steve Austin, a downed pilot who is saved by an operation that makes him part machine. Sources say Wahlberg is pushing for Gibson after working with him on the Paramount comedy Daddy’s Home 2, in which the pair played father and son.
    Last edited by Anti Federalist; 05-01-2018 at 12:48 AM.
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  3. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post


    Mel Gibson Eyes Kamikaze War Thriller 'Destroyer' as Next Directing Gig (Exclusive)

    https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/he...ng-gig-1107033

    Mel Gibson is readying another trip behind the camera.

    Gibson will helm Destroyer, a World War II naval war movie from Hollywood Gang Productions, making the project his follow-up to Hacksaw Ridge, the 2016 war drama that served as his directorial comeback.

    The timing of Destroyer — the fall is a possibility — is in flux as Gibson is also being courted for a role opposite Mark Wahlberg in The Six Billion Dollar Man, Warner Bros.’ big-screen take on the 1970s television series.

    Six Billion Dollar Man is due to begin shooting in late summer and go into the fall, which could push Gibson’s plans into the winter.

    Destroyer is based on the nonfiction book Hell From the Heavens: The Epic Story of the USS Laffey and World War II’s Greatest Kamikaze Attack by John Wukovits. Rosalind Ross, who worked on the TV series Matador and is Gibson’s longtime girlfriend, wrote the script.

    Just as Hacksaw Ridge dealt with the Battle of Okinawa in the Pacific Theater during World War II, Destroyer also tackles the subject, although from a different angle. Hell From the Heavens tells the heroic story of how the crewmen of the Laffey defended their ship from an astounding 22 kamikaze attacks on April 16, 1945.

    As for Six Billion Dollar Man, it is unclear what role Gibson is wanted for. Wahlberg is playing Col. Steve Austin, a downed pilot who is saved by an operation that makes him part machine. Sources say Wahlberg is pushing for Gibson after working with him on the Paramount comedy Daddy’s Home 2, in which the pair played father and son.
    Look, another WWII movie to further indoctrinate the American masses on the lie about the war. I bet they would not cover the lies and tactics Roosevelt used to bent the average American into going oversees to kill their brothers. I guess this is Mel Gibson's atonement for saying what he said about the war pushers in our society.

    Yet another war propaganda movie I am going to pass on.

  4. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Look, another WWII movie to further indoctrinate the American masses on the lie about the war. I bet they would not cover the lies and tactics Roosevelt used to bent the average American into going oversees to kill their brothers. I guess this is Mel Gibson's atonement for saying what he said about the war pushers in our society.

    Yet another war propaganda movie I am going to pass on.
    Hacksaw Ridge is anything but a war propaganda movie. But, that's o.k., I've come to expect you not to know what the hell it is you're talking about.

  5. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Hacksaw Ridge is anything but a war propaganda movie. But, that's o.k., I've come to expect you not to know what the hell it is you're talking about.
    What do you know about war propaganda? Most people are not smart enough to decipher war propaganda even when it is staring them in the face and they eat it up because people just like to eat. Yes, I did not watch the movie(and will never watch the movie) but I have seen enough spoiler reviews of the movie to know that is a fantastic movie that was well made, well written but still promoted an aspect of war that nobody should promote.

    When a war is unnecessary or forced on the people, the only aspect of that war that should be promoted is the aspect that exposes deceptive push for war and its true resistors, any thing else is promoting war propaganda in my book.

    So enjoy your yearly WWII promotion, I on the other hand will stay the hell away from it.

  6. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    What do you know about war propaganda? Most people are not smart enough to decipher war propaganda even when it is staring them in the face and they eat it up because people just like to eat. Yes, I did not watch the movie(and will never watch the movie) but I have seen enough spoiler reviews of the movie to know that is a fantastic movie that was well made, well written but still promoted an aspect of war that nobody should promote.

    When a war is unnecessary or forced on the people, the only aspect of that war that should be promoted is the aspect that exposes deceptive push for war and its true resistors, any thing else is promoting war propaganda in my book.

    So enjoy your yearly WWII promotion, I on the other hand will stay the hell away from it.
    Phjill is right about Hacksaw Ridge, if anything, it brought out the horrors of war. It also showed how an honorable man's (Desmond Doss) own countrymen turned on him because of his faith. In the end proved them all wrong. You missed a great movie.
    “The spirits of darkness are now among us. We have to be on guard so that we may realize what is happening when we encounter them and gain a real idea of where they are to be found. The most dangerous thing you can do in the immediate future will be to give yourself up unconsciously to the influences which are definitely present.” ~ Rudolf Steiner

  7. #6
    ya know what we NEED?

    another "world war" 2 movie, don't 4 get to mention hitler a lot...
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
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    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  8. #7
    I bet this movie is gonna have some great holocaust scenes
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  9. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by donnay View Post
    Phjill is right about Hacksaw Ridge, if anything, it brought out the horrors of war. It also showed how an honorable man's (Desmond Doss) own countrymen turned on him because of his faith. In the end proved them all wrong. You missed a great movie.
    I am sure it did bring out the horrors of war in the viewer(that is what all war movies do before it hits you with a redemption story line) but also I sure most people coming out of the theatre didn't come out thinking "hmm, maybe we shouldn't have provoked the Japanese and never had to fight that god awful war". I bet most people came out thinking "we shouldn't have treated that poor christian boy poorly and instead should have let the Christians fight wars in their own peaceful ways".

    The movie won 6-7 freaking Oscars from the big wigs in Hollywood, do you need any other proof that this is a war propaganda movie? I know I missed a great movie but I can live with that. I have seen enough WWII movies to last me a lifetime.

    Btw Hugo Weaving an actor who I really like was in it, I think I have said it a few times here now but Christian Bale and Hugo Weaving in a movie translate to a high probability of me going to see it. Weaving is a fantastic actor and also something most people do not know about him is that he was born in Nigeria and if I remember correctly is still a Nigerian citizen. Believe me, I really wanted to go see it but at the end decided to not.

    Until they start making WWII movies that expose the crimes of the allies, I will not watch them and I highly doubt this is happen in my lifetime. The indoctrination is too strong even among the awaken people of RPF.
    Last edited by juleswin; 05-02-2018 at 10:38 AM.



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  11. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am sure it did bring out the horrors of war in the viewer(that is what all war movies does before it hits you with a redemption story line) but also I sure most people coming out of the theatre didn't come out thinking "hmm, maybe we shouldn't have provoked the Japanese and never had to fight that god awful war". I bet most people came out thinking "we shouldn't have treated that poor christian boy poorly and instead should have let the Christians fight wars in their own peaceful ways".

    The movie won 6-7 freaking Oscars from the big wigs in Hollywood, do need any other proof that this is a war propaganda movie? I know I missed a great movie but I can live with that. I have seen enough WWII movies to last me a lifetime.

    Btw Hugo Weaving an actor who I really like was in it, I think I have said it a few times here now but Christian Bale and Hugo Weaving in a movie translate to a high probability of me going to see it. Weaving is a fantastic actor and also something most people do not know about him is that he was born in Nigeria and if I remember correctly is still a Nigerian citizen. Believe me, I really wanted to go see it but at the end decided to not.

    Until they start making WWII movies that expose the crimes of the allies, I will not watch them and I highly doubt this is happen in my lifetime. The indoctrination is too strong even among the awaken people of RPF.
    I probably won't watch it either. I have certain principles I adhere to, and there's no way I'm going to watch a movie that is all about boats/ships and does NOT have pirates in it.
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  12. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I probably won't watch it either. I have certain principles I adhere to, and there's no way I'm going to watch a movie that is all about boats/ships and does NOT have pirates in it.
    FLIP THOSE FLAGS, THE NATION IS IN DISTRESS!


    why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).
    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  13. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I probably won't watch it either. I have certain principles I adhere to, and there's no way I'm going to watch a movie that is all about boats/ships and does NOT have pirates in it.
    You are not going to watch it? but its going to have a very engaging story, well developed characters, beautiful picture, pacing etc etc and Will win so many awards. I am betting now that it would win at least 5 Oscars. Are you going to let your principles prevent you from seeing the 1001th retelling of the WWII story?

    I think I will give into this one if it shows Christians in a good light and wins at least 7 Oscars. No body can say that I am not reasonable

  14. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Until they start making WWII movies that expose the crimes of the allies,...


    Blasphemy! Long live the UK and US! Go back to Stormfront!


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  15. #13
    A movie about a battle and tactics is somehow about supporting "the war" or war in general?
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  16. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    A movie about a battle and tactics is somehow about supporting "the war" or war in general?
    Don't play coy with me Danke, I am sure even you know that a movie about a military tactic is not just going to be about a military tactic. Character would have to be developed for you to relate to, back stories explored and a narrative built around said tactic to make a story non military fanatics could enjoy.

    Yes, it's going to be a movie about a military tactic but it would(most likely) be used to push the narrative that WWII was a war we had to fight and the people who fought it were good honorable people who scarified their lives four our safety and freedom. But if you are genuinely this naive, then I don't know what else to say.

    This is why I have all but given up with politics and the trying to convince people because the general public eats up more establishment propaganda faster than truth seekers can dispel them.

    Wake up Danke!!

  17. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Hacksaw Ridge is anything but a war propaganda movie. But, that's o.k., I've come to expect you not to know what the hell it is you're talking about.
    Hear Hear! Phill 1 the commie 0

  18. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I bet this movie is gonna have some great holocaust scenes
    All that Holocaust porn...



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  20. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by navy-vet View Post
    Hear Hear! Phill 1 the commie 0
    Oh look, the fella who worked for the No. 1 warphilic corporation in the world and probably collecting some benefits from said corporation is siding with my opponent in our debate about war. Who did not see this coming?

  21. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by TheTexan View Post
    I probably won't watch it either. I have certain principles I adhere to, and there's no way I'm going to watch a movie that is all about boats/ships and does NOT have pirates in it.
    Makes sense to me . I watched the other one though , but an Army Medic under fire to aid the wounded is not as gay as a bunch of destroyers getting whipped by japs ......
    Do something Danke

  22. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Danke View Post
    A movie about a battle and tactics is somehow about supporting "the war" or war in general?
    Jules is holding out for movies that depict Indian attacks in nebraska .
    Do something Danke

  23. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Oh look, the fella who worked for the No. 1 warphilic corporation in the world and probably collecting some benefits from said corporation is siding with my opponent in our debate about war. Who did not see this coming?
    Lol. Get on with your bad self, Che. You do such a great job of destroying yourself that you don't need my help

  24. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Lol. Get on with your bad self, Che. You do such a great job of destroying yourself that you don't need my help
    Phill 2 Commie 0
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  25. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am sure it did bring out the horrors of war in the viewer(that is what all war movies does before it hits you with a redemption story line) but also I sure most people coming out of the theatre didn't come out thinking "hmm, maybe we shouldn't have provoked the Japanese and never had to fight that god awful war". I bet most people came out thinking "we shouldn't have treated that poor christian boy poorly and instead should have let the Christians fight wars in their own peaceful ways".

    The movie won 6-7 freaking Oscars from the big wigs in Hollywood, do need any other proof that this is a war propaganda movie? I know I missed a great movie but I can live with that. I have seen enough WWII movies to last me a lifetime.

    Btw Hugo Weaving an actor who I really like was in it, I think I have said it a few times here now but Christian Bale and Hugo Weaving in a movie translate to a high probability of me going to see it. Weaving is a fantastic actor and also something most people do not know about him is that he was born in Nigeria and if I remember correctly is still a Nigerian citizen. Believe me, I really wanted to go see it but at the end decided to not.

    Until they start making WWII movies that expose the crimes of the allies, I will not watch them and I highly doubt this is happen in my lifetime. The indoctrination is too strong even among the awaken people of RPF.
    Hacksaw is about a young Christian who will not touch a gun, is almost thrown out of the military and ends singlehandedly saving many of his company from death. He also saves some of the hurt Japanese.

    I would advise seeing this movie- it is a game changer.
    There is no spoon.

  26. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    I am sure it did bring out the horrors of war in the viewer(that is what all war movies does before it hits you with a redemption story line) but also I sure most people coming out of the theatre didn't come out thinking "hmm, maybe we shouldn't have provoked the Japanese and never had to fight that god awful war". I bet most people came out thinking "we shouldn't have treated that poor christian boy poorly and instead should have let the Christians fight wars in their own peaceful ways".

    The movie won 6-7 freaking Oscars from the big wigs in Hollywood, do need any other proof that this is a war propaganda movie? I know I missed a great movie but I can live with that. I have seen enough WWII movies to last me a lifetime.

    Btw Hugo Weaving an actor who I really like was in it, I think I have said it a few times here now but Christian Bale and Hugo Weaving in a movie translate to a high probability of me going to see it. Weaving is a fantastic actor and also something most people do not know about him is that he was born in Nigeria and if I remember correctly is still a Nigerian citizen. Believe me, I really wanted to go see it but at the end decided to not.

    Until they start making WWII movies that expose the crimes of the allies, I will not watch them and I highly doubt this is happen in my lifetime. The indoctrination is too strong even among the awaken people of RPF.

    Hacksaw Ridge is the most antiwar film I've seen in a long time. And it's based on a true story. I actually met Corporal Doss a couple of times before he died. A truly great man. If you want read a book (it will not likely become a movie) that covers WW II wrongs on both sides, read A Thousand Shall Fall. It's another true story about a Seventh Day Adventist who was drafted into the military and didn't want to kill, only this one was drafted into Hilter's army. What to do when you believe in Romans 13 and the "powers that be" are evil incarnate? There is a scene in the book where American GIs are about to rape a whole town full of German woman but they are stopped at the last minute. Also the protagonist would go ahead of Hitler's army and warn Jews about the SS. Some would listen and leave, some would not listen, stay and die. Oh and when the local Nazis came for their oldest son to put him into the Hitler youth, the whole family went into hiding (minus the dad of course who was out on the Eastern front).

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  27. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Ender View Post
    Hacksaw is about a young Christian who will not touch a gun, is almost thrown out of the military and ends singlehandedly saving many of his company from death. He also saves some of the hurt Japanese.

    I would advise seeing this movie- it is a game changer.
    Really, so this American GI was able to safe both American and Japanese soldiers fighting each other. I wonder how many Japanese soldiers this invading soldier would have saved had he not showed up to battle in the first place. I bet it would be more than that would have been saved with him on the battle field.

    It is a war propaganda movie because all WWII movies made by hollywood is propaganda.



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  29. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by jmdrake View Post
    Hacksaw Ridge is the most antiwar film I've seen in a long time. And it's based on a true story. I actually met Corporal Doss a couple of times before he died. A truly great man. If you want read a book (it will not likely become a movie) that covers WW II wrongs on both sides, read A Thousand Shall Fall. It's another true story about a Seventh Day Adventist who was drafted into the military and didn't want to kill, only this one was drafted into Hilter's army. What to do when you believe in Romans 13 and the "powers that be" are evil incarnate? There is a scene in the book where American GIs are about to rape a whole town full of German woman but they are stopped at the last minute. Also the protagonist would go ahead of Hitler's army and warn Jews about the SS. Some would listen and leave, some would not listen, stay and die. Oh and when the local Nazis came for their oldest son to put him into the Hitler youth, the whole family went into hiding (minus the dad of course who was out on the Eastern front).

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    Wait a minute, did u just say that this one soldier was able to prevent a bunch of horny GIs from raping a bunch of German women, how the fu*k did he do that? Maybe I will read the book cos I am curious of how he was able to pull that off. Seriously, I am not that interested in the individual stories of the soldiers because it sort a societal taboo to judge the people who most were conscripted to kill their fellow brother. I generally look for stories that tell the big picture about the war.

    But after doing some google search, I found this article that I believe expresses the way I feel about the movie.

    HACKSAW RIDGE Is Brutal War Propaganda Straight Outta The ‘40s


    Spoilers follow for Hacksaw Ridge, which - as the film takes pains to point out - is based on a true story anyway.

    Mel Gibson’s Hacksaw Ridge is American wartime propaganda, through and through. It occupies much the same space in 2016 as American Sniper did in early 2015, and definitely plays to a similar audience. But more specifically, it feels like a movie made during World War II to drum up enlistments - with all the dodgy moralising that entails.

    It’s there from the opening scenes: the bucolic Virginian sun setting over good ol’ boys drinkin’ beer and goin’ to church - and no boy gooder than Andrew Garfield’s proto-Gump Desmond Doss. Desmond’s home life might be less than ideal, but by golly, he’s got a photogenic nursin’ gal by his side, and he’s brought up with a strong set of morals both Christian and military: thou shalt not kill, and thou shalt serve thy country. So he joins the army - but only as a medic.

    ----snip------

    Mel Gibson’s directorial style is solidly established by now as gory and violent (the Italian horror masters would be jealous at what this guy manages to sling at mainstream audiences), but while the violence is extreme, it’s not gratuitous - for the most part. Through the majority of the film, Gibson’s cinematic suffering obsession serves the story, with Doss forced to grit his teeth through the horror and rescue people from unthinkably awful situations.

    Midway through the extended battle sequence that forms the film’s second half, the tone becomes much odder and more transparently propagandic. Desmond’s company retreats, but he stays at the front, repeating “please, God, let me get one more” like a weedy, blood-spattered Oskar Schindler*, as he rescues soldier after soldier. The enemy pays only erratic attention to Doss, leaving him alone to pose heroically, while shooting at him just enough to enhance his bravery. The repetition and heroism of this sequence calls to mind Stolz der Nation, the film-within-a-film from Inglourious Basterds, if it swapped sides and changed its class from Sniper to Medic. Though he might get shot at, Doss is never in danger; he’s a glorious pillar of American bravery, untouchable and ordained by God. He's Basterds' Frederick Zoller; he's Enemy at the Gates' Vasili Zaitsev; he's Chris Kyle.

    --snip------

    The Japanese themselves are demonised by this movie in ways that genuinely feel torn from a WWII recruitment film. Before we even see them, they’re described as “animals” who make a point of killing medics; referred to with a host of (admittedly historically accurate) racial slurs. In person, they’re grotesque, screaming maniacs eager to kill themselves in order to take one more American life, bayoneting soldiers left and right. Gibson fetishises the “otherness” of the Japanese commanders, his camera leering over their ritual suicide. It’s kind of amazing to see in a film released in the Year of Our Lord 2016.

    Desmond consistently maintains that his Seventh Day Adventist upbringing won’t allow him to kill. The one time Desmond does hold a rifle - as a tool, to help drag a wounded Vince Vaughn - comes after two full acts of not even touching a weapon. That symbolic break - huge, given the preceding hour and a half - is never commented on, and it’s emblematic of the shaky moral ground upon which Hacksaw Ridge stands. Though he doesn’t “technically” shoot anyone, Desmond is still 100% complicit in wartime violence from the moment he joins the army. In addition to passively being part of the military machine, he even engineers combat situations to expedite his comrades’ killing sprees - distracting a sniper so he can be shot, moving soldiers so they can fire their weapons. Where’s the line for him? When our protagonist is so hellbent on upholding his black-and-white morals, it’s bizarre to see those morals so blithely corrupted. Gibson plays to the back rows of Red State America's biggest megachurches, but muddies the film's ostensible values while wrapping them in neat moral platitudes.

    Gibson says his aspiration was to highlight the plight of the veteran - and to an extent, through Hugo Weaving’s chewed-up, spit-out WWI soldier and the sheer horror of the violence Desmond faces, he does. It’s entirely possible to respect and honour veterans while morally disagreeing with warfare itself - and if any movie was going to do that, it’d be one about a conscientious objector. Hacksaw Ridge, though, feels like a recruitment drive. Join the army, the film tells us. It's unpleasant, sure, but you too can make a difference even if you don't like fighting! Look at this plucky young fellow - he survived, and so can you! Then you can come home to your beautiful wife and your Virginia home which, while working-class, is still, also, beautiful. In Hacksaw Ridge, as in reality, these ideals collapse the moment you scratch beneath the surface - but I suspect that’s not how the film was intended to be viewed.

    * Doss’ mantra isn’t the only point where Hacksaw Ridge wants you to think it’s Schindler’s List: the movie’s coda is a series of pieces to camera straight outta Spielberg’s Holocaust masterpiece. Again, a curious comparison to draw for Mel Gibson.

    http://birthmoviesdeath.com/2016/11/...-outta-the-40s

    Please try and read the full article in the link

    Was barely awake when I made that post last night, but like I said to Enders, all WWII movies by nature are going to be at the very least pro war. The reason why is because of the prevailing narrative about WWII and the reason it was fought. Those reasons are, we were attacked unprovoked by the Japanese, the evil German Nazis declared war on the US and were taking over Europe and they were killing Jews and other minorities. You cannot make a movie in this age that suggests that righting those "wrongs" was a bad idea. I am not saying that it has to be a "Ra Ra" war is fun, war is good for the soul movie but it will never be a "we are not supposed to fight the war" anti war movie.

    That is why I say that all WWII movies are going to in some way or another promote a war propaganda leaning and until society start to question and counter those false narratives, nothing will change.
    Last edited by juleswin; 05-02-2018 at 07:08 AM.

  30. #26
    Just realized I mistakenly got the title wrong in the OP.

    As to Jules' critique?

    Meh...see it, or not.

    Gibson is a talented director and this is an amazing sea story.

    I'm quite sure it will be a stunning movie.

  31. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Raginfridus View Post
    All that Holocaust porn...
    Know any good sites?
    It's all about taking action and not being lazy. So you do the work, whether it's fitness or whatever. It's about getting up, motivating yourself and just doing it.
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    Donald Trump / Crenshaw 2024!!!!

    My pronouns are he/him/his

  32. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by phill4paul View Post
    Lol. Get on with your bad self, Che. You do such a great job of destroying yourself that you don't need my help
    Only among whinny high school girls circles do you win a debate by being snarky. But I am sure any neutral observer may not think I am winning the debate but would tell you that I am not doing any such thing as "destroying" myself.

    Btw, its OK to disagree with someone, I disagree with you all the time but I don't think you are destroying yourself.
    Last edited by juleswin; 05-02-2018 at 09:16 AM.

  33. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Only among whinny high school girls circles do you win a debate by being snarky
    Whinny



    Whiny


  34. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by juleswin View Post
    Wait a minute, did u just say that this one soldier was able to prevent a bunch of horny GIs from raping a bunch of German women, how the fu*k did he do that?
    No I did not say that. He wasn't even there. It's been a while since I read the book but I believe a commander came up on the scene and stopped it. My point is the book actually brought out an atrocity from the allied side. I thought you'd be happy about that.

    Maybe I will read the book cos I am curious of how he was able to pull that off. Seriously, I am not that interested in the individual stories of the soldiers because it sort a societal taboo to judge the people who most were conscripted to kill their fellow brother. I generally look for stories that tell the big picture about the war.
    Okay. I liked the book because it squarely addresses the question that Christians need to ask ourselves about government in general which is "At what point do you say that what this power that be is doing is not ordained of God?"

    But after doing some google search, I found this article that I believe expresses the way I feel about the movie.
    Okay. I'll address that.

    Midway through the extended battle sequence that forms the film’s second half, the tone becomes much odder and more transparently propagandic. Desmond’s company retreats, but he stays at the front, repeating “please, God, let me get one more” like a weedy, blood-spattered Oskar Schindler*, as he rescues soldier after soldier. The enemy pays only erratic attention to Doss, leaving him alone to pose heroically, while shooting at him just enough to enhance his bravery. The repetition and heroism of this sequence calls to mind Stolz der Nation, the film-within-a-film from Inglourious Basterds, if it swapped sides and changed its class from Sniper to Medic. Though he might get shot at, Doss is never in danger; he’s a glorious pillar of American bravery, untouchable and ordained by God. He's Basterds' Frederick Zoller; he's Enemy at the Gates' Vasili Zaitsev; he's Chris Kyle.
    Chris Kyle enjoyed killed people. He bragged (lied) about murdering people in New Orleans. Nobody is Chris Kyle. As for Vasili Zaitzey, his country was invaded and he fought a defensive war against the invaders. He's far more honorable than the Che Guevera that you have for your avatar. Che went around the world invading other people's countries. As for Desmond Doss he actually treated the wounded for the other side. Bizarro world is where healing = killing.

    The Japanese themselves are demonised by this movie in ways that genuinely feel torn from a WWII recruitment film. Before we even see them, they’re described as “animals” who make a point of killing medics; referred to with a host of (admittedly historically accurate) racial slurs. In person, they’re grotesque, screaming maniacs eager to kill themselves in order to take one more American life, bayoneting soldiers left and right. Gibson fetishises the “otherness” of the Japanese commanders, his camera leering over their ritual suicide. It’s kind of amazing to see in a film released in the Year of Our Lord 2016.[/i]
    It's funny that this fake article you posted only admits that the racial slurs were historically accurate. The killing of medics by our enemies is also historically accurate based on the very attitude you are pushing! If medic = sniper then killing a medic (even a medic who is willing to save your life) = justifiable homicide. But if you really want to know people who hate the Japanese for what they did in World War II, don't talk to Mel Gibson or American soldiers from that era. Talk to the Chinese and the Indonesians and the Filipinos and the Koreans. Look up and read about the rape of Nanking and get back to us. Why do you think the Japanese constitution to this day does not allow for Japan to have an offensive military? Ritual suicide was also part of the Japanese military ethos of the time. Would you prefer Gibson pretend it didn't exist?


    Please try and read the full article in the link
    I assume you've quoted the best parts which shows that the article is naive at best and straight up dishonest propaganda at worst. Something is propaganda when it is inaccurate and your article is historically inaccurate. Mel Gibson's other war movies, Braveheart[1] and The Patriot[2], are inaccurate and propaganda. But Hacksaw Ridge is accurate both in the story and the historical portrayal of what World War II was like including the brutality of the Japanese. Here is some history on the rape of Nanking.

    https://www.history.com/topics/nanjing-massacre
    In late 1937, over a period of six weeks, Imperial Japanese Army forces brutally murdered hundreds of thousands of people–including both soldiers and civilians–in the Chinese city of Nanking (or Nanjing). The horrific events are known as the Nanking Massacre or the Rape of Nanking, as between 20,000 and 80,000 women were sexually assaulted. Nanking, then the capital of Nationalist China, was left in ruins, and it would take decades for the city and its citizens to recover from the savage attacks.

    [1]There's no evidence that William Wallace's wife was murdered by the British and the idea of a king sleeping another man's bride on the first night was not a British thing but a French thing.

    [2]There's no evidence that during the revolutionary war the British ever burned any innocent people, let alone a church full of old men, women and children.

    Was barely awake when I made that post last night, but like I said to Enders, all WWII by nature are going to be at least pro war. Te reason why is because of the prevailing narrative about WWII and the reason it was fought. Those reasons are, we were attacked unprovoked by the Japanese, the evil German Nazis declared war on the US and were taking over Europe and they were killing Jews and other minorities. You cannot make a movie in this age that suggests that doing righting those wrongs was a bad idea. I am not saying that it has to be a "Ra Ra" war is fun, war is good for the soul movie but it will never be a "we are not supposed to fight the war" anti war movie.
    Japan did a pre-emptive strike against the United States. That is undisputed. Could it have been prevented? Yes. We had the intelligence to do that. Was Japan provoked? Well we did have them under an oil embargo, but if that's justification for war then all of the United States "oil wars" are justified, which is a premise I do not accept. Japan took a page from the American/British imperial playbook of "If you don't have the resources you need in your own country, steal them from someone else and call it a 'colony'" but added their own level of brutality on top of it based on their warrior code. And Germany was indeed ravaging Europe. Jews, Gypsies and others were being slaughtered, though we didn't give a crap about that until the end of the war. Your article mentioned Enemy at the Gate. Well Hitler did invade Russia. And yes, before that Russia invaded Finland and Hitler came to the aid of a free people. But I would expect a Russian who owned a gun and knew how to shoot to defend his homeland regardless of what he felt about its leadership. I suspect most people on this forum would do the same if the U.S. was invaded. If you want to make the best antiwar case, instead of trying to rewrite history about World War II, I suggest you go back to World War I. Had the U.S. not intervened in that war, the crazy terms of the Treaty of Versailles would not have been imposed on Germany and Hitler likely would not have risen to power.

    That is why I say that all WWII movies are going to in some way or another promote a war propaganda leaning and until society start to question and counter those false narratives and until then, nothing will change.
    Except....they aren't entirely false narratives. Japan had not right to attack Pearl Harbor. Hitler was ravaging Europe. Japanese soldiers were incredibly cruel and they did kill medics. On the flip side, a few years ago we bombed a doctors without borders hospital. Truth that seems to lean one way is best countered by truth that leans the other way, as opposed to pretending the first truth didn't happen.
    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

    "We as a country have lost faith and confidence in freedom." -- Ron Paul

    "It can be a challenge to follow the pronouncements of President Trump, as he often seems to change his position on any number of items from week to week, or from day to day, or even from minute to minute." -- Ron Paul
    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    The road to hell is paved with good intentions. No need to make it a superhighway.
    Quote Originally Posted by osan View Post
    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

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