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Thread: High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University

  1. #1

    Default High-Paying Trade Jobs Sit Empty, While High School Grads Line Up For University

    https://news.slashdot.org/story/18/0...for-university

    While a shortage of workers is pushing wages higher in the skilled trades, the financial return from a bachelor's degree is softening, even as the price -- and the average debt into which it plunges students -- keeps going up. But high school graduates have been so effectively encouraged to get a bachelor's that high-paid jobs requiring shorter and less expensive training are going unfilled. This affects those students and also poses a real threat to the economy. "Parents want success for their kids," said Mike Clifton, who teaches machining at the Lake Washington Institute of Technology, about 20 miles from Seattle. "They get stuck on [four-year bachelor's degrees], and they're not seeing the shortage there is in tradespeople until they hire a plumber and have to write a check."

    In a new report, the Washington State Auditor found that good jobs in the skilled trades are going begging because students are being almost universally steered to bachelor's degrees. Among other things, the Washington auditor recommended that career guidance -- including choices that require less than four years in college -- start as early as the seventh grade. "There is an emphasis on the four-year university track" in high schools, said Chris Cortines, who co-authored the report. Yet, nationwide, three out of 10 high school grads who go to four-year public universities haven't earned degrees within six years, according to the National Student Clearinghouse. At four-year private colleges, that number is more than 1 in 5.
    Education doesnt service the existing industry, Education IS the industry.

    What we have today also is not education, its workforce training.

    "If education is beaten by workforce training, civilization dies." - CS Lewis
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  3. #2

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    From Mike Rowe's facebook....

    Off the Wall

    Mike - Is it satisfying to see that every single thing in this article is PRECISELY what you've been saying for the last ten years, or is it annoying to see that mikeroweWORKS isn't even mentioned?

    Steve Reynolds

    Hi Steve

    The short answer, is yes. It's always gratifying when large news organizations support my foundations agenda - especially with an article this good - but if I'm being honest, I would have liked to been asked for a quote. Not because I like to see my name in print, but because I could have told their readers we're accepting applications for the next round of Work Ethic Scholarships. I could have said something like...

    "Well thanks, NPR, that's an excellent question. In my view, the widening skills gap and the increasing cost of college aren't problems, in and of themselves; they're symptoms - symptoms of our insistence on promoting one form of education at the expense of all the others. This lopsided, cookie-cutter approach to learning has led to a mountain of myths and misperceptions that discourage millions of people from exploring many viable opportunities that don't require an expensive four-year degree. To close the skills gap, we need to affirmatively debunk the misinformation surrounding these opportunities, and stop treating whole categories of jobs like vocational consolation prizes. Toward that end, mikeroweWORKS is accepting applications for another round of Work Ethic Scholarships, specifically designed for people who wish to learn a skill that's actually in demand. And your readers are welcome to apply at mikeroweWORKS.org/scholarship."

    Or something like that...

    Mike
    https://www.facebook.com/TheRealMikeRowe/
    Theye have refused their Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public good.

    Theye have erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass our people and eat out their substance.

    Theye kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies

    Theye have combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,

    For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:

    For cutting off our Trade with parts of the world:

    For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

    For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

    Theye plundered and destroyed the lives of our people.

    Theye are at this time transporting Armies of Mercenaries to compleat the works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty & Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy of a civilized nation.

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    Rand Paul/Mike Rowe 2020

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    I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.

    Also, I think both Blue Collar and White Collar industries keep making the claim they can't get enough qualified people; it's not just the Trades. We never have enough Doctors or Nurses. Not enough people are learning Computer Programming or Cyber Security. Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths.

    I feel like we're not getting the whole story. In some cases, I suspect the Colleges are providing General Education and Fundamentals, while Businesses demand people with experience who understand their highly specialized proprietary systems, equipment, work methods, or even terminology. To some extent, I also think this is business scapegoating colleges and students while not admitting this is a failure by industry to bridge this gap or mismanaged by clueless HR people.

  6. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.

    Also, I think both Blue Collar and White Collar industries keep making the claim they can't get enough qualified people; it's not just the Trades. We never have enough Doctors or Nurses. Not enough people are learning Computer Programming or Cyber Security. Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths.

    I feel like we're not getting the whole story. In some cases, I suspect the Colleges are providing General Education and Fundamentals, while Businesses demand people with experience who understand their highly specialized proprietary systems, equipment, work methods, or even terminology. To some extent, I also think this is business scapegoating colleges and students while not admitting this is a failure by industry to bridge this gap or mismanaged by clueless HR people.
    What is lacking today is a perfect employee that is fully trained, with 5 years experience, who is willing to work for peanuts, who says yes to everything, that works 12 hours a day, never takes a day off, is related in some way to the hiring manager, and magically appears out of thin air without the employer even having to say they need a new employee.

    And if all of those conditions are not met, the US Chamber of Commerce or some lobby group will make sure it makes headlines and becomes the top priority of government.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  7. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle. I mean they're probably doing okay with that, but I don't know if I'd call that High-Paying. Many other jobs with a college education would probably pay a lot more with less negative effects on health like work place injury or back strain.
    There are three things that typically happen to students after they graduate college.

    They get a decent well paying job or better.

    They get a part time or low paying job like a barista at Starbucks or something in the service industry.

    They don't find work at all.

    I think there are a lot more people in the second and third category than you think, who would be well served by either not going to college and just sticking to the service sector or learning some type of trade if they want to make more money.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  8. #7

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    This is a failure of recruitment and hiring, which does take some effort. Most employers put zero effort into it. They want a perfect person dropped in their lap.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  9. #8

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    9/11 Thermate experiments

    Winston Churchhill on why the U.S. should have stayed OUT of World War I

    "I am so %^&*^ sick of this cult of Ron Paul. The Paulites. What is with these %^&*^ people? Why are there so many of them?" YouTube rant by "TheAmazingAtheist"

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    The only way I see Trump as likely to affect any real change would be through martial law, and that has zero chances of success without strong buy-in by the JCS at the very minimum.

  10. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian4Liberty View Post
    This is a failure of recruitment and hiring, which does take some effort. Most employers put zero effort into it. They want a perfect person dropped in their lap.
    It takes both, plenty of those potential hires would rather slack off at starbucks than really work to advance in a career.

  11. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    I'm not sold on this from the full article mentioning Iron Workers earning $50,000 or more in Seatle.
    Wow, no kidding.

    If you get your foot into IT, you will be earning almost that at entry level, sitting in an ergonomic chair, in climate control, wearing comfortable clothes, screwing around online a couple times a day, and if you work for the right place you'll be able to get high in your down time without worrying about losing your job.
    Even if that $50k is accurate, it's not necessarily a better deal.
    There are no crimes against people.
    There are only crimes against the state.
    And the state will never, ever choose to hold accountable its agents, because a thing can not commit a crime against itself.

  12. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by fisharmor View Post
    Wow, no kidding.

    If you get your foot into IT, you will be earning almost that at entry level, sitting in an ergonomic chair, in climate control, wearing comfortable clothes, screwing around online a couple times a day, and if you work for the right place you'll be able to get high in your down time without worrying about losing your job.
    Even if that $50k is accurate, it's not necessarily a better deal.
    lol... we aren't talking about people who can just "get their foot into IT". We are talking about people who go to IT when they have a problem with their computer, which is the vast majority of people.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  13. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    There are three things that typically happen to students after they graduate college.

    They get a decent well paying job or better.

    They get a part time or low paying job like a barista at Starbucks or something in the service industry.

    They don't find work at all.

    I think there are a lot more people in the second and third category than you think, who would be well served by either not going to college and just sticking to the service sector or learning some type of trade if they want to make more money.
    This gets closer to the real issues of the job market. All industries whine saying they have a shortage of qualified people, but is anyone really addressing how to pair up these unemployed grads with these jobs or figure out why they fell through the cracks?

  14. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Or there is a shortage of people in STEM(Science, Technology, Engineering, Math) related career paths. .
    I don't know what to believe. My neighbor is a gay woman with a STEM degree. She is managing a local car rental place.
    * Enforce Border Security – America should be guarding her own borders and enforcing her own laws instead of policing the world and implementing UN mandates.

    * No Amnesty - The Obama Administration’s endorsement of so-called “Comprehensive Immigration Reform,” granting amnesty to millions of illegal immigrants, will only encourage more law-breaking.

    * Abolish the Welfare State – Taxpayers cannot continue to pay the high costs to sustain this powerful incentive for illegal immigration. As Milton Friedman famously said, you can’t have open borders and a welfare state.

    * End Birthright Citizenship – As long as illegal immigrants know their children born here will be granted U.S. citizenship, we’ll never be able to control our immigration problem.




    Reprinted from http://www.ronpaul2012.com/the-issues/immigration/ [Nov. 29, 2011]

  15. #14

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    Possibly it's mostly bull$#@! from industry explaining any shortcomings saying they understaffed. Mike Rowe and journalists need to dig deeper.

  16. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    It takes both, plenty of those potential hires would rather slack off at starbucks than really work to advance in a career.
    Yeah, it does go both ways. You won't get a job sitting on the couch playing X-Box. It take some initiative and perseverance. But too many employers discourage that initiative by redirecting potential employees to the black hole of the "official" HR online application process.
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  17. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    This gets closer to the real issues of the job market. All industries whine saying they have a shortage of qualified people, but is anyone really addressing how to pair up these unemployed grads with these jobs or figure out why they fell through the cracks?
    You may have missed what you said, but "cracks" is plural, there are multiple problems. One is that higher education has become its own industry and is built to service itself, not the job market. Next big one is HR. Also a product of education. Many people in HR are taught to "match" applicants perfectly to employer standards. And they rely on software to use it. HR people are not IT people, so expect those programs to have problems. Im getting really sick of my resume getting tossed aside because I didnt use a "buzz word" customized to an employers liking when they wont offer more than a pittance of what they should be. Also, wages are not 100% employers fault due to economy, but Im not gonna waste time going thru eight hours of forms to have a one in a thousand chance of even being looked at.

    So lets take an adult swing at this and ask the right questions that lead to solutions.

    What are the Cracks?
    - Wages are too low for applicants to care
    - Employer Standards are too high
    - Employer Expectations of "perfect" matches
    - Education failed to properly prepare students for real world job market
    - H1B Visas cover the failure of Education
    - Software for HR is too complex for any applicant to just "know" how to make their customized resume too high
    - Too much competition from collapsing industries
    - MSM distortion of reality
    - Employer lack of willingness or resources to properly train applicants
    - Applicants feel their jobs are disposable and do not put forth 100% effort
    - Lack of Career Path
    - Lack of meaningful full time work
    - Lack of Insurance
    - Job Websites profit by not matching Applicants to Jobs
    - Credit Scores should not be used to disqualify applicants from many jobs
    - Cost of Education in Student Loans to the student seen as a major risk by many unskilled workers
    - Government Subsidies of very low wage jobs like Amazon Warehouse
    - Government Interference by requiring Licenses for an ever increasing number of jobs
    - Illegal Immigration
    - Age / Gender Discrimination
    - Businesses that wont hire someone that is over qualified due to "flight risk"
    - Cost to run the same business in another country is far more profitable to many businesses
    - Trickle Down Economics do not work
    - Saturation of Applicant Competition

    Not every problem applies to every employer / applicant. But these are all major factors that have complicated the process of hiring people. If everything were awesome, there wouldnt be as many applications for jobs. Businesses seem like they dont hire for positions they offer, and they have huge resources to look through. They arent just looking thru the applications for the jobs, but Resume Postings on Unemployment Websites as well as other Job Sites that also host Resumes.

    It can cost an employer $300 to post a job listing on some Job Websites like Monster.com. Monster has a financial incentive to not match a qualified applicant. The result, without conspiracy, is that the worse their system functions, the more money the Job Website makes. There is not just one crack. There are a ton. Our economy has been shattered.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  18. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    ... Next big one is HR. Also a product of education. Many people in HR are taught to "match" applicants perfectly to employer standards. And they rely on software to use it. HR people are not IT people, so expect those programs to have problems. Im getting really sick of my resume getting tossed aside because I didnt use a "buzz word" customized to an employers liking when they wont offer more than a pittance of what they should be. Also, wages are not 100% employers fault due to economy, but Im not gonna waste time going thru eight hours of forms to have a one in a thousand chance of even being looked at. ...
    Yeah, the software aspect of HR has probably made it less likely for a potential employee to get through. I have seen situations at large companies where the job req and keywords in the HR system were completely wrong. Wrong programming languages and tools were listed, while the actual required ones were not there. The complaint that came to me was that they couldn't get any good candidates through HR. The alternative was an Indian body shop importing H1-Bs. Was it intentional or incompetence? It was hard to track down this "error". People in HR were not forthcoming. I found out when a person hired was complaining that the actual job did not match the req at all.

    Incompetence is always most likely, but sabotage with an alternative business agenda also occurs...
    Twitter: B4Liberty@USAB4L
    "Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
    "Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Corporate-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
    "Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
    "Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul


    The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.

  19. #18

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    It probably wouldnt help if SJWs are drawn to HR jobs for some odd reason, and carry with them the normal hating cry baby malicious personas we see in so many extremists!
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintian an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    You are Ron Paul's Media!

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  20. #19

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    Hard to imagine why an 18 year old would forgo manual labor in favor of 4 years of partying financed on loans which he expects to be forgiven...

  21. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    I don't know what to believe. My neighbor is a gay woman with a STEM degree. She is managing a local car rental place.
    The value of a degree has gone down and often prior experience within a field is required as a prerequisite for hire (or enough people have experience who in turn get selected over them). Many cannot afford to intern to gain the experience needed to qualify for the position.

    In the few cases of people I know who have degrees and no job within their field of study, this is what it has boiled down to.
    “The nationalist not only does not disapprove of atrocities committed by his own side, but he has a remarkable capacity for not even hearing about them.” --George Orwell

    Quote Originally Posted by AuH20 View Post
    In terms of a full spectrum candidate, Rand is leaps and bounds above Trump. I'm not disputing that.
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