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Thread: Many Amazon Warehouse Workers are on Food Stamps

  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    In most cases I agree. We are however discussing the largest monopoly in the history of the world that is waging economic warfare by targeting specific sectors and selling at a loss until all their competitors are put out of business in that sector. This is elimination of the free market.
    .
    What does the fair market price for labor mean, when a company owns the market?



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  3. #62
    The big problem is that these people pay taxes. So they are paying govt to pay for their own food stamps. Basically buying their own chains of slavery.
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.

  4. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    What does the fair market price for labor mean, when a company owns the market?
    Good point. +1, out of rep.

  5. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by kahless View Post
    Good point. +1, out of rep.
    Covered!
    1776 > 1984

    The FAILURE of the United States Government to operate and maintain an
    Honest Money System , which frees the ordinary man from the clutches of the money manipulators, is the single largest contributing factor to the World's current Economic Crisis.

    The Elimination of Privacy is the Architecture of Genocide

    Belief, Money, and Violence are the three ways all people are controlled

    Quote Originally Posted by Zippyjuan View Post
    Our central bank is not privately owned.



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  7. #65
    A fair price is whatever both parties are willing to pay, I disagree that markets can be owned, you can temporarily flood markets with capital but its like inflating a tire with a hole in it, unless you keep inflating it there is no real there there. That's the whole point of being against interventionism because you know that there is no interventionism that is moral because there is always a correction that occurs after the mal-investment gets liquidated. The people that get hurt though are never the Amazons, they would be the ones that would win from any government moral corrections.

  8. #66
    Opposition to government interference is no excuse for defending Amazon and their anti employee practices. Corporations are just as bad as bad as the government and need to be held to the same standards of scepticism.

    It is pathetic when Amazon, Walmart and others pay such poor wages that their employees are forced onto food stamps. That just means we the tax payers are subsidizing Amazon. Yet people do not ridicule Amazon for their bad practices but rather ridicule the workers just trying to make a living? Is this some kind of joke? Sound like a bunch of Mitt Romney wannabees.

    Working two full time jobs? Yeah screw living a balanced life where you have satisfaction. Make everyone work every minute of their waking hours to survive. Great platform to lure in support.

    Not everyone has the freedom to just quit and find a better job. Not everyone has bargaining power to get better wages? Why would you side with the dominating party? I really do not understand the mindset. An employer-employee relationship should be equal but it is not. The employer more often than not has the power and dictates the wage. The employee generally has no choice but to accept. It is so bad and one sided that programs like food stamps even exist to begin with. If employers paid a reasonable wage such programs would have no purpose. So if you are angry about these welfare programs then attack the real root of the problem which is greedy corporations. Obviously I am not including all businesses as some pay fair wages and treat their employees well and others do the best they can. But Amazon and Walmart? No, those are not good corps.
    Last edited by ChaosControl; 04-22-2018 at 06:13 PM.

  9. #67
    Quote Originally Posted by nikcers View Post
    The people that get to write the regulations. They decide the m-f work week, the amount of ethanol in our gas and how long we stay a war with Afghanistan.
    But I don't think those things should be regulated. Well, the war thing can be regulated away asap, but the free market should be the final arbiter in all these other things things.

  10. #68
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Opposition to government interference is no excuse for defending Amazon and their anti employee practices. Corporations are just as bad as bad as the government and need to be held to the same standards of scepticism.

    It is pathetic when Amazon, Walmart and others pay such poor wages that their employees are forced onto food stamps. That just means we the tax payers are subsidizing Amazon. Yet people do not ridicule Amazon for their bad practices but rather ridicule the workers just trying to make a living? Is this some kind of joke? Sound like a bunch of Mitt Romney wannabees.

    Working two full time jobs? Yeah screw living a balanced life where you have satisfaction. Make everyone work every minute of their waking hours to survive. Great platform to lure in support.

    Not everyone has the freedom to just quit and find a better job. Not everyone has bargaining power to get better wages? Why would you side with the dominating party? I really do not understand the mindset. An employer-employee relationship should be equal but it is not. The employer more often than not has the power and dictates the wage. The employee generally has no choice but to accept. It is so bad and one sided that programs like food stamps even exist to begin with. If employers paid a reasonable wage such programs would have no purpose. So if you are angry about these welfare programs then attack the real root of the problem which is greedy corporations. Obviously I am not including all businesses as some pay fair wages and treat their employees well and others do the best they can. But Amazon and Walmart? No, those are not good corps.
    Wages are a commodity. Prices rise and fall with demand. If you want higher wages, you have to specialize. There's no way around economic law.

  11. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    What does the fair market price for labor mean, when a company owns the market?
    Are you implying that Amazon owns the labor market?

  12. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Opposition to government interference is no excuse for defending Amazon and their anti employee practices. Corporations are just as bad as bad as the government and need to be held to the same standards of scepticism.

    It is pathetic when Amazon, Walmart and others pay such poor wages that their employees are forced onto food stamps. That just means we the tax payers are subsidizing Amazon. Yet people do not ridicule Amazon for their bad practices but rather ridicule the workers just trying to make a living? Is this some kind of joke? Sound like a bunch of Mitt Romney wannabees.

    Working two full time jobs? Yeah screw living a balanced life where you have satisfaction. Make everyone work every minute of their waking hours to survive. Great platform to lure in support.

    Not everyone has the freedom to just quit and find a better job. Not everyone has bargaining power to get better wages? Why would you side with the dominating party? I really do not understand the mindset. An employer-employee relationship should be equal but it is not. The employer more often than not has the power and dictates the wage. The employee generally has no choice but to accept. It is so bad and one sided that programs like food stamps even exist to begin with. If employers paid a reasonable wage such programs would have no purpose. So if you are angry about these welfare programs then attack the real root of the problem which is greedy corporations. Obviously I am not including all businesses as some pay fair wages and treat their employees well and others do the best they can. But Amazon and Walmart? No, those are not good corps.
    I'll beg to disagree....

    There're generations now of food stamp recipients who only 'get a job' to either satisfy other free $#@! mandates or parole mandates..

    Food stamps exist not because of poor wages but because people don't or won't work to feed themselves, it's easier to jump through bureaucratic hoops than to carry hod or muck stalls..

    Cut that $#@! off! Fire all the government employees involved and see how quickly things change for the better...

  13. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    It is pathetic when Amazon, Walmart and others pay such poor wages that their employees are forced onto food stamps. That just means we the tax payers are subsidizing Amazon. Yet people do not ridicule Amazon for their bad practices but rather ridicule the workers just trying to make a living? Is this some kind of joke? Sound like a bunch of Mitt Romney wannabees.
    It is amusing that you are singling out Amazon and Walmart. The truth is that such unskilled workers for almost any business are on or eligible for food stamps. Especially if they have children.

    Last edited by specsaregood; 04-22-2018 at 06:28 PM.

  14. #72
    Quote Originally Posted by DamianTV View Post
    The big problem is that these people pay taxes. So they are paying govt to pay for their own food stamps. Basically buying their own chains of slavery.
    People who get food stamps do not pay taxes. They make contributions to their social security theft, but as a general rule they get refunds that exceed the amounts of income tax that were withheld over the course of the year.

    You guys are delusional if you think that Amazon, WalMart and any other employer is going to pay a single penny over market wages.

    This noise is just union propaganda - they failed at unionizing WalMart, so now they're going to try to weasel their way into Amazon. Bezos is a prog though, so he'll probably allow it. Snicker.



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  16. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Wages are a commodity. Prices rise and fall with demand. If you want higher wages, you have to specialize. There's no way around economic law.
    Not an easily attainable option for all. I am satisfied with my own situation and enjoy my job. But not everyone has that luxury for various reasons. Expecting a floor is not really unreasonable especially from mega corps with billionaire executives. If the corps dont pay reasonable wages the government will fill the role by way of necessity as charity generally cannot make up the slack since it is so one sided. If corporations paid reasonable wages then charity could cover the other situations where assistance is required. A lot of people fall on bad situations or just have no options from the beginning. Working hard to get out of a situation is not as simple as it may sound for many, especially if they have kids to support.

  17. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by tod evans View Post
    I'll beg to disagree....

    There're generations now of food stamp recipients who only 'get a job' to either satisfy other free $#@! mandates or parole mandates..

    Food stamps exist not because of poor wages but because people don't or won't work to feed themselves, it's easier to jump through bureaucratic hoops than to carry hod or muck stalls..

    Cut that $#@! off! Fire all the government employees involved and see how quickly things change for the better...
    Plus rep. Enough of the "these poor people can't take care of themselves!" nonsense. Freaking Mexicans walk 1200 miles and find jobs in a country where they don't even speak the language. They don't qualify for food stamps, yet I haven't seen their starved corpses on the side of the road.

  18. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    It is amusing that you are singling out Amazon and Walmart. The truth is that such unskilled workers for almost any business are on or eligible for food stamps.
    I realize that. They just happen to be two of the most known corporations. The thing is even these unskilled workers are fulfilling a need and working the same just as anyone else. It is not unreasonable to expect they be compensated in a way they can actually live a decent life.

    But yes the anger should be directed at the overall situation of unequal power between employer and employee rather than just two well known corporations.

  19. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Not an easily attainable option for all. I am satisfied with my own situation and enjoy my job. But not everyone has that luxury for various reasons. Expecting a floor is not really unreasonable especially from mega corps with billionaire executives. If the corps dont pay reasonable wages the government will fill the role by way of necessity as charity generally cannot make up the slack since it is so one sided. If corporations paid reasonable wages then charity could cover the other situations where assistance is required. A lot of people fall on bad situations or just have no options from the beginning. Working hard to get out of a situation is not as simple as it may sound for many, especially if they have kids to support.
    You mean like all the divorced fathers who pay out up to 40% of their gross to an ex who 'works' and collects food stamps?

    Executives be damned, cut the free $#@! programs and watch how quickly the traditional family reemerges....

  20. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Not an easily attainable option for all. I am satisfied with my own situation and enjoy my job. But not everyone has that luxury for various reasons. Expecting a floor is not really unreasonable especially from mega corps with billionaire executives. If the corps dont pay reasonable wages the government will fill the role by way of necessity as charity generally cannot make up the slack since it is so one sided. If corporations paid reasonable wages then charity could cover the other situations where assistance is required. A lot of people fall on bad situations or just have no options from the beginning. Working hard to get out of a situation is not as simple as it may sound for many, especially if they have kids to support.
    Not the problem of the employer, and not the responsibility of the federal government. Here's a hint: price floors create a surplus.

  21. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Why is it immoral to pay the market price for labor? Doesn't management have a moral obligation to protect the interests of the investors and the customers as well? Who gets to decide which moral obligation is superior?
    Arent't the employees investors or stakeholders in a way? At least if they hope to be there a while providing labor and earning income long term while taking care of the facility and equipment?

    Is the local community even a stakeholder for inviting this behemoth warehouse to build there with the idea of using up so much of their available land will provide decent jobs?

    Maybe the mistake is small towns looking to better their local economies trusted in Amazon, but instead of receiving an economic benefit, they feel exploited.

  22. #79
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Arent't the employees investors or stakeholders in a way?
    No. Labor is a commodity.

  23. #80
    Canned response #1: "all poor people are lazy, because it's not possible to be poor unless you're lazy."

    Canned response #2 "employers have a moral obligation to pay whatever a person needs to live, regardless of what their labor is worth."

    This is why we can't have nice things.
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  25. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by ChaosControl View Post
    Opposition to government interference is no excuse for defending Amazon and their anti employee practices. Corporations are just as bad as bad as the government and need to be held to the same standards of scepticism.

    It is pathetic when Amazon, Walmart and others pay such poor wages that their employees are forced onto food stamps. That just means we the tax payers are subsidizing Amazon. Yet people do not ridicule Amazon for their bad practices but rather ridicule the workers just trying to make a living? Is this some kind of joke? Sound like a bunch of Mitt Romney wannabees.

    Working two full time jobs? Yeah screw living a balanced life where you have satisfaction. Make everyone work every minute of their waking hours to survive. Great platform to lure in support.

    Not everyone has the freedom to just quit and find a better job. Not everyone has bargaining power to get better wages? Why would you side with the dominating party? I really do not understand the mindset. An employer-employee relationship should be equal but it is not. The employer more often than not has the power and dictates the wage. The employee generally has no choice but to accept. It is so bad and one sided that programs like food stamps even exist to begin with. If employers paid a reasonable wage such programs would have no purpose. So if you are angry about these welfare programs then attack the real root of the problem which is greedy corporations. Obviously I am not including all businesses as some pay fair wages and treat their employees well and others do the best they can. But Amazon and Walmart? No, those are not good corps.
    Spot on. I would specifically however indicate monopolies as the culprit rather than "corporations" which can mean anyone even a very small unprofitable businesss. A local business can be more easily boycotted if they are immoral with their employees to affect change to their behavior rather than these large monopolies.

    The monopolies are stifling the free market system while dictating - owning politicians in multiple jurisdictions to enact oppressive tax policies to benefit them over the rest of us.
    Last edited by kahless; 04-22-2018 at 06:55 PM.

  26. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Arent't the employees investors or stakeholders in a way? At least if they hope to be there a while providing labor and earning income long term while taking care of the facility and equipment?

    Is the local community even a stakeholder for inviting this behemoth warehouse to build there with the idea of using up so much of their available land will provide decent jobs?

    Maybe the mistake is small towns looking to better their local economies trusted in Amazon, but instead of receiving an economic benefit, they feel exploited.
    I read an article from the UK whining about Amazon but can't recall any from this side of the pond, do you have one you're particularity fond of?

  27. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by The Rebel Poet View Post
    Canned response #1: "all poor people are lazy, because it's not possible to be poor unless you're lazy."

    Canned response #2 "employers have a moral obligation to pay whatever a person needs to live, regardless of what their labor is worth."

    This is why we can't have nice things.
    Nobody said poor people are lazy. What I am saying is that markets determine wages, and there's no such thing as a "reasonable" wage.

  28. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    Are you implying that Amazon owns the labor market?
    They have such a large presence, they probably set the standard which their few competitors will follow. In some cases if they build a Warehouse in a small community, they probably do dominate the local labor market.

  29. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    They have such a large presence, they probably set the standard which their few competitors will follow. In some cases if they build a Warehouse in a small community, they probably do dominate the local labor market.
    So the answer then is no, Amazon doesn't have a monopoly on labor.

    Like I said above, Mexicans can walk from Baja to Birmingham and find work. But Americans can't travel 200 miles to improve their own lives? Like Tom Woods said, I'd be freaking embarrassed if I was so worthless I worked at a place for a decade and couldn't convince a single person anywhere that I was worth more than minimum wage.

  30. #86
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post

    This noise is just union propaganda - they failed at unionizing WalMart, so now they're going to try to weasel their way into Amazon. Bezos is a prog though, so he'll probably allow it. Snicker.
    At least with Labor Unions you just have 2 parties negotiate wages and the Union gives the workers more leverage against a big company like Amazon. The role of government at that point would be to enforce the contract they sign.

  31. #87
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    They have such a large presence, they probably set the standard which their few competitors will follow. In some cases if they build a Warehouse in a small community, they probably do dominate the local labor market.
    There's this thing called the Division of Labor, bro. Amazon isn't going to magically suck people up into jobs they don't want just to destroy the community. *dramatic Michael Moore-esque scene here* Amazon jobs are low-skill and even in small communities would only draw people who are interested in such work anyway. And since value is subjective, we know plenty of people value working locally over working for national brands.
    Quote Originally Posted by Torchbearer
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  32. #88
    Quote Originally Posted by angelatc View Post
    So the answer then is no, Amazon doesn't have a monopoly on labor.

    Like I said above, Mexicans can walk from Baja to Birmingham and find work. But Americans can't travel 200 miles to improve their own lives? Like Tom Woods said, I'd be freaking embarrassed if I was so worthless I worked at a place for a decade and couldn't convince a single person anywhere that I was worth more than minimum wage.
    So if these Mexicans are working so much harder than lazy Americans, will they're wages go up dramatically when they're managers recognize their high labor value?



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  34. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    Arent't the employees investors or stakeholders in a way?

    ...

    Is the local community even a stakeholder for inviting this behemoth warehouse to build there with the idea of using up so much of their available land will provide decent jobs?
    They're both stakeholders in that they have some leverage over the company, and a wise company will seek to keep both groups content for maximum productivity and good PR.


    They also have an interest in attracting the employer to the area as well as keeping its operations in the area, and therefore must offer the employer labor, land, etc. at a competitive price. What would the employees and local community rather have: no warehouse and no jobs, or a warehouse and moderate-to-poor quality jobs? These warehouses are not being placed on prime real estate in nice locations; that area is selected because the labor and land is cheap and for few other reasons (access to highways, markets, etc).


    If all of the other companies in the market are benefiting from government subsidy of their employees' wages through welfare programs, should this company put itself out of business trying to do otherwise? Is that better for the employees?
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  35. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by VIDEODROME View Post
    So if these Mexicans are working so much harder than lazy Americans, will they're wages go up dramatically when they're managers recognize their high labor value?
    Wages reflect what you produce.......................Unless you work for government.

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