View Poll Results: Rand Should Primary Trump?

Voters
13. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, he should

    10 76.92%
  • No, he shouldn't

    3 23.08%
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 59

Thread: Rand Should Primary Trump

  1. #1

    Default Rand Should Primary Trump

    For those of us who voted Yay, a second question:

    Rand's been playing this game since summer 2016, whereby he praises a position candidate Trump took during the campaign (mind you: Trump took every position on every issue during the campaign), so as to cover himself for criticizing the actual conduct of Trump as President. For instance, he'll say that Trump's appointment of Bolton runs contrary to his non-interventionist comments as a candidate (feigning ignorance of Trump's long record of extremely interventionist positions, which Rand rightly attacked during the campaign: e.g. re Libya). So, given this tack which Rand has taken (not what I would have advised, but there's a certain logic to it), how might he change his tune re Trump without risking "flip-flopper" accusations?



  2. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  3. #2

    Default

    I'd support him if he did.

    Yes.

  4. #3

    Default

    I think Rand is a clear no on running in any future Presidential election. Even though he was the best liberty candidate in history, this past election shows there isn't a market for what he is selling and he has just a few too many gaps in his presentation. My gut instinct is Amash will run on the LP at some point though. Maybe Rand runs LP down the road.

    More interesting is if he votes no on Pompeo. Voting no will be a huge deal. If he votes no, I wouldn't be surprised if he is at least considering not running again for Senate
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 04-18-2018 at 04:34 PM.

  5. #4

    Default

    Turn about is fair play and all...

    From February 2016

    Trump: Someone Should Primary Rand Paul

    https://hotair.com/headlines/archive...ary-rand-paul/

    Either run for Senate and do a good job or run for president. You don’t run for president and by the way, if I don’t make it, I will become your senator reluctantly. If I were somebody — a good, strong Republican from Kentucky, I would run against him in a heartbeat. And you would win. Because the people of Kentucky are being used by Rand Paul. Now, think of it. They’re saying is, oh, if he doesn’t make it, we will take him. That’s not the way it works. The people of Kentucky should get a senator that wants to represent them, not a senator where it’s a backup plan. So, if I was in Kentucky, I would run against him. Believe me, I would win. - DJT

  6. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    Even though he was the best liberty candidate in history, this past election shows there isn't a market for what he is selling
    Every election shows that.

    Freedom is not popular.

  7. #6

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every election shows that.

    Freedom is not popular.

    The way a liberty candidate would win is if they have some other overriding popularity and charisma. Reagan (setting aside what people here will say about him) was the most ideologically conservative in a long long time to win. The average person who voted for him did so in spite of that. They voted because he was a smiley face.

    I can't think of any libertarian who could overcome the ideological problems a libertarian will face. Maybe Vince Vaughn?
    Last edited by Krugminator2; 04-18-2018 at 04:44 PM.

  8. #7

    Default

    Why not strike while the Iron's hot!

    Rand Paul 2020
    for a Clear Vision

    Please tell me why I should worship the state (who apparently is the only party that can possess guns without question).

    The state's only purpose is to kill and control. Why do you worship it? - Sola_Fide


    ^THAT^

    Baptiste said.
    At which point will Americans realize that creating an unaccountable institution that is able to pass its liability on to tax-payers is immoral and attracts sociopaths?

  9. #8

    Default

    I hope he runs again when he's ready to retire from the Senate, like Ron did from the house.

  10. #9

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Krugminator2 View Post
    I think Rand is a clear no on running in any future Presidential election. Even though he was the best liberty candidate in history, this past election shows there isn't a market for what he is selling and he has just a few too many gaps in his presentation. My gut instinct is Amash will run on the LP at some point though. Maybe Rand runs LP down the road.

    More interesting is if he votes no on Pompeo. Voting no will be a huge deal. If he votes no, I wouldn't be surprised if he is at least considering not running again for Senate
    He won't run again for Senate, I'm quite sure.

    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Every election shows that.

    Freedom is not popular.
    Who said anything about winning?

    I say, go out in a blaze of glory - cash in every respectability chip he's earned over the years and tell it exactly as it is.

    One last time.

  11. #10

  12. #11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    For those of us who voted Yay, a second question:

    Rand's been playing this game since summer 2016, whereby he praises a position candidate Trump took during the campaign (mind you: Trump took every position on every issue during the campaign), so as to cover himself for criticizing the actual conduct of Trump as President. For instance, he'll say that Trump's appointment of Bolton runs contrary to his non-interventionist comments as a candidate (feigning ignorance of Trump's long record of extremely interventionist positions, which Rand rightly attacked during the campaign: e.g. re Libya). So, given this tack which Rand has taken (not what I would have advised, but there's a certain logic to it), how might he change his tune re Trump without risking "flip-flopper" accusations?
    He should run as being more true to Trumpism than Trump has been, MAGA for real like Trump promised and hasn't lived up to.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #12

    Default

    There won't be a 2020, there won't be a Russia reset. We are about to see an American reset.

  14. #13

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    He should run as being more true to Trumpism than Trump has been, MAGA for real like Trump promised and hasn't lived up to.
    No, if that, it would be better that he not run at all.

    For my part, the sole purpose of Rand running would be to kill Trumpism, lock it in a concrete box, and dump in an outhouse where it belongs. So long as the narrative is dominated by Hannity and related clowns spewing nationalist propaganda, nothing will or can improve. If the liberty movement isn't capable of winning elections anymore, so be it, then our last good service to humanity should be to end this abomination. Force people to call a spade a spade.

  15. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    No, if that, it would be better that he not run at all.

    For my part, the sole purpose of Rand running would be to kill Trumpism, lock it in a concrete box, and dump in an outhouse where it belongs. So long as the narrative is dominated by Hannity and related clowns spewing nationalist propaganda, nothing will or can improve. If the liberty movement isn't capable of winning elections anymore, so be it, then our last good service to humanity should be to end this abomination. Force people to call a spade a spade.
    It can be harnessed and bent to our purposes, we must redefine what Trumpism is by emphasizing the parts we like and de-emphasizing the parts we don't, our enemies do it to us all the time, we need to turn it back on them.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #15

    Default

    If Rand Paul thinks that is the best decision, I would support him 100% - but I wouldn't force him to run, so it is tough to know how to vote in this poll... because if he chooses not to, then I don't think he should. I think Rand knows better than I do what he should do in this situation.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  17. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It can be harnessed and bent to our purposes, we must redefine what Trumpism is by emphasizing the parts we like and de-emphasizing the parts we don't, our enemies do it to us all the time, we need to turn it back on them.
    I'll wager that there's a neglected but shiny granite wall somewhere in Berlin or Rome which lists the names of people with similar ideas.

  18. #17

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    I'll wager that there's a neglected but shiny granite wall somewhere in Berlin or Rome which lists the names of people with similar ideas.
    Trumpism isn't NAZIsm, trying to fix the Demoncrats would be more like that.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  19. #18

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    If Rand Paul thinks that is the best decision, I would support him 100% - but I wouldn't force him to run, so it is tough to know how to vote in this poll... because if he chooses not to, then I don't think he should. I think Rand knows better than I do what he should do in this situation.
    Yes but taking our temperature might help him decide.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  20. #19

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Trumpism isn't NAZIsm, trying to fix the Demoncrats would be more like that.
    Not yet (it can't happen here, of course...), but the naivete that you're displaying in thinking that you can somehow co-opt or redirect the energy of the Trumpenproletariat toward liberal goals is very reminiscent of the attitudes displayed by the German upper classes before the deluge (some of whom financed the NSDAP for fear of communists [they didn't understand that the NSDAP was also a communist party, just one which was also racist]). Same with the Russian aristocracy. They almost literally (in some cases literally) dug their own graves - all based on an absurdly inflated opinion of the man on the street (who, to their chagrin, was less inclined to thank than rob and hang them).


  21. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Not yet (it can't happen here, of course...), but the naivete that you're displaying in thinking that you can somehow co-opt or redirect the energy of the Trumpenproletariat toward liberal goals is very reminiscent of the attitudes displayed by the German upper classes before the deluge (some of whom financed the NSDAP for fear of communists [they didn't understand that the NSDAP was also a communist party, just one which was also racist]). Same with the Russian aristocracy. They almost literally (in some cases literally) dug their own graves - all based on an absurdly inflated opinion of the man on the street (who, to their chagrin, was less inclined to thank than rob and hang them).

    Donating money to a leader you don't control or joining a revolution against your class are different than co-opting the leadership of a movement that is in it's infancy and shares many of your ideals.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  22. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Donating money to a leader you don't control or joining a revolution against your class are different than co-opting the leadership of a movement that is in it's infancy and shares many of your ideals.
    You believe that most Trump voters share your ideals...?

    If you mean wanting to restrict immigration, yep, that's true.

    But as far as making government smaller, no, lol, they don't share those values.

  23. #22

    Default

    Ah, I see we got demoted to the Rand Forum (which, these days, is a kind of exile, isn't it?).

    It's important to make sure there's plenty of room for asinine pro-Trump conspiracy theories in US Politics, amiright?

  24. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    You believe that most Trump voters share your ideals...?
    Many of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    But as far as making government smaller, no, lol, they don't share those values.
    Yes they do, they may be gullible enough to vote for the lesser of two evils too often but they voted for Trump because they are sick of the RINOs who never follow through on the promises to shrink government, they may not yet want to shrink government as small as I do but they can be lead to or at least lead closer.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  25. #24

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Yes they do, they may be gullible enough to vote for the lesser of two evils too often but they voted for Trump because they are sick of the RINOs who never follow through on the promises to shrink government, they may not yet want to shrink government as small as I do but they can be lead to or at least lead closer.
    Ah, yes, I remember the big grassroots outcry when the Congress passed and Trump signed a multi-hundred bullion dollar spending increase.

    It was like...


  26. #25

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ah, yes, I remember the big grassroots outcry when the Congress passed and Trump signed a multi-hundred bullion dollar spending increase.

    It was like...
    Israel is going to drag us into war with Iran so multiple hundred billion dollar spending increases is just water under the bridge.

  27. #26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Ah, yes, I remember the big grassroots outcry when the Congress passed and Trump signed a multi-hundred bullion dollar spending increase.

    It was like...

    It did hurt him with the base.
    If you were right then there would be no purpose in mounting a primary challenge, only a well financed 3rd party run like Perot would stand a chance.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  28. #27

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It did hurt him with the base.
    If you were right then there would be no purpose in mounting a primary challenge, only a well financed 3rd party run like Perot would stand a chance.
    Which claim you base on what...?

    I mean, you didn't like it, and the four other sort-of-libertarians who've supported Trump were pissed, but the rest?

  29. #28

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Which claim you base on what...?

    I mean, you didn't like it, and the four other sort-of-libertarians who've supported Trump were pissed, but the rest?
    Many people expressed outrage, that is why people put out the claim that the omnibus is just a suggestion and why rescission was floated.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  30. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Many people expressed outrage, that is why people put out the claim that the omnibus is just a suggestion and why rescission was floated.
    Since that travesty, Trump's approval ratings have increased, and the generic Congressional ballot has closed toward GOPers.

    That would suggest that, at best, Trump's base doesn't care at all about these issues.

    ...which is also obviously true, if one goes out beyond the Facebook version of reality and talks to people.

  31. #30

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by r3volution 3.0 View Post
    Since that travesty, Trump's approval ratings have increased, and the generic Congressional ballot has closed toward GOPers.

    That would suggest that, at best, Trump's base doesn't care at all about these issues.
    Or that they are more afraid of the Demoncrats who expose their radicalization more every day.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast





Similar Threads

  1. Trump kids can't vote for GOP in NY primary
    By Jan2017 in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-12-2016, 04:15 PM
  2. Just Out!! Trump announces he's dropping out of the GOP primary !!!
    By ChristianAnarchist in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 04-01-2016, 10:20 PM
  3. Trump: Someone should primary Rand Paul
    By nikcers in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 130
    Last Post: 03-06-2016, 09:42 PM
  4. Trump wants McCain defeated in thee primary
    By cindy25 in forum 2016 Presidential Election: GOP & Dem
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 07-18-2015, 11:04 AM
  5. Trump gets 26% in PA primary poll, Ron gets 5%.
    By sailingaway in forum Ron Paul Forum
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 04-15-2011, 02:29 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •