Starbucks in hot water for having cops remove two black men from Philly store

[timosman]

What should the cops have done differently?

Post a question on RPF and wait for suggestions.

[angelatc]

Ok, so what if a couple white dudes come in dressed as gang bangers, are really noisy and annoying the other customers and don't buy anything? Meanwhile some middle aged black guy is sitting on his computer quietly in the corner without buying anything and they kick the white dudes out. Is that racist too?

I don't know how this one went down, but social media and the mainstream media don't always tell the whole story.

You're the first person that is asserting that they were loud and disruptive. Is that true? You're right - the media only tells us a narrative.

[dannno]

You're the first person that is asserting that they were loud and disruptive. Is that true? You're right - the media only tells us a narrative.

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.

[Influenza]

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.

thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us

[dannno]

thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us

Typically customers are asked to leave a business establishment when they are causing a scene or some other problem, not when they are being quiet and acting like normal people. Race baiters will often use skin color to try and say that was the reason they were asked to leave, and social media is all too accommodating for them.

[pcosmar]

What should the cops have done differently?

Speak politely to the men,, and find out why they are there..
Speak to the Manager,,

Keep The Peace. if they are to exist at all..

The Man who asked to meet them there for Business arrived and verified their story. He was there to buy the coffee.

[Influenza]

Typically customers are asked to leave a business establishment when they are causing a scene or some other problem, not when they are being quiet and acting like normal people. Race baiters will often use skin color to try and say that was the reason they were asked to leave, and social media is all too accommodating for them.

correct, that's why, based on the information publicly available thus far, this situation is atypical, in that they were asked to leave without being disruptive. If there is evidence to the contrary, it would have to be presented. In the meanwhile, comparisons with "BELLIGERENT GANGBANGER WHITE DUDES" do little more than turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.

[dannno]

correct, that's why, based on the information publicly available thus far, this situation is atypical, in that they were asked to leave without being disruptive. If there is evidence to the contrary, it would have to be presented. In the meanwhile, comparisons with "BELLIGERENT GANGBANGER WHITE DUDES" do little more than turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.

Which information is public so far?

Would it be fair to say that one side is, and not the other?

And at least I'm not a caricature of a race baiting progressive..

[Influenza]

Which information is public so far?

Would it be fair to say that one side is, and not the other?

And at least I'm not a caricature of a race baiting progressive..

It would not be fair to say that as you have heard both sides already, lmao. starbucks didn't dispute their story at all. if they were being disruptive, it would be on a security camera or someone else's. If there was any actual dispute to the information available, we would hear something about it. But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

[dannno]

It would not be fair to say that as you have heard both sides already, lmao. starbucks didn't dispute their story at all. if they were being disruptive, it would be on a security camera or someone else's. If there was any actual dispute to the information available, we would hear something about it. But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

Good God, what a bunch of horse $#@!.

Starbucks is clearly NOT on the side of the employee who made the decision, because "Starbucks" didn't make the decision to kick the customer out, that employee is disposable and this situation makes Starbucks look bad no matter what.

So when you say, "both sides" have their story public you still really still mean one side.

So let me ask again, would be fair to say that the information that is public so far is coming from one side, and not the other? The OTHER is the EMPLOYEE who made the decision. Like others have said, we have NOT heard their side of the story.

Why does this sort of basic $#@! need to be pointed out multiple times in the same thread? Is it because it is a Starbucks thread?

[Influenza]

Good God, what a bunch of horse $#@!.

Starbucks is clearly NOT on the side of the employee who made the decision, because they didn't make the decision, that employee is disposable and this situation makes Starbucks look bad no matter what.

So when you say, "both sides" have their story public you still really still mean one side.

So let me ask again, would be fair to say that the information that is public so far is coming from one side, and not the other? The OTHER is the EMPLOYEE who made the decision. Like others have said, we have NOT heard their side of the story.

Why does this sort of basic $#@! need to be pointed out multiple times in the same thread? Is it because it is a Starbucks thread?

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

[fisharmor]

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

I've never been to Cally, and God willing, I never will... but classic, actual, non-SJW-witchhunter racism is very much alive and well in the North, just like it always has been.
That very much includes Philadelphia.

[dannno]

not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

This has got to be the dumbest $#@! I've ever read.

Name one thing I've ever said that is racist..

I would bet $100 there is more racial diversity in my friends and acquaintances throughout my life than you. I have three black friends in a town with like .5% black people. I've spent at least half my time living in hispanic neighborhoods in my town, and do currently, most of the time with hispanic people in my house.

Just because I am willing to admit there are obnoxious black people doesn't make me racist - because guess what? There are obnoxious white people too. So get a $#@!ing life.

[dannno]

So why doesn't the employee speak up then? It's a 5 day old story. I'll do some mind-numbingly retarded conjecture to answer this question, like you: The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets. sounds about as sensible as portraying the 2 dudes as black thug yahoos disturbing the peace

Has anybody asked them what happened? Did Starbucks tell them not to say anything about the incident?

[dannno]

I've never been to Cally, and God willing, I never will... but classic, actual, non-SJW-witchhunter racism is very much alive and well in the North, just like it always has been.
That very much includes Philadelphia.

The pictures from the protest, it looks like a bunch of hipsters. 50/50 chance whoever kicked the guys out was LGTBTQHB

[Anti Federalist]

Yeah. I do not think the cops did anything wrong even if the manager was a jerk. I don't know PA but in most places, restaurants have the right to ask you to leave for any reason they choose. The cops have the responsibility to enforce the law.

Nor do I.

The cops did what they are supposed to do...arrest people and $#@! up their day.

Call out a guy with a wrecking ball to kill a fly, and don't be surprised when house gets knocked down.

My point is simply this: by calling the cops you now have a PR nightmare that will takes months to die down and cost millions of dollars.

Calling the cops in any situation should be a very last resort.

[Anti Federalist]

which one of yall $#@!ers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters

I did.

You got a $#@!ing problem with them?

[oyarde]

Starbucks in Philly , two black guys , I was looking for the rest of the joke , kind of expecting a Rabbi , Priest and a Nun too . Philly , LOL . City of Brotherly Love .

[Influenza]

This has got to be the dumbest $#@! I've ever read.

Name one thing I've ever said that is racist..

I would bet $100 there is more racial diversity in my friends and acquaintances throughout my life than you. I have three black friends in a town with like .5% black people. I've spent at least half my time living in hispanic neighborhoods in my town, and do currently, most of the time with hispanic people in my house.

Just because I am willing to admit there are obnoxious black people doesn't make me racist - because guess what? There are obnoxious white people too. So get a $#@!ing life.

u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer

[Anti Federalist]

Pretty much badly handled by the employees.

A moments polite conversation could have avoided the whole ordeal.

Yup. This.

Even if it didn't calling the cops is only going to make the situation worse, even if you "win".

Starbucks now has a PR $#@!-storm that will cost them millions by the time it dies down.

[Valli6]

So the only video, is of what occurs after the cops arrive? Were the people recording this hoping for an altercation?

What matters most is what happened before the cops were called.

How long were they there before they were told to leave? Was it 1 minute or 30 minutes? Were they looking at a menu? Had they done this before? - i.e. was it a habit of there's to hang around without ordering anything? Had they come in just to use the toilet in the past (treating it like a government-funded public restroom)? -or- Was the store very busy so that they were preventing paying customers from sitting down? Without answers to these questions, it's narrow-minded for SJWs to assume it's all about their blackness. Of, course, any business has the right to kick you out if they have a problem with your being there.

Personally, I think most people who need to use a business's toilet make a point of finding something to buy - I had even done this (grudgingly) at Starbucks once, years ago (really needed to use that toilet!). It's simply the civil thing to do and only a child or someone who feels entitled would not realize it.

Not necessarily a set-up, but it's entirely possible that it was. Suing Starbucks for discrimination? Being who and what they are, they'd settle without any argument, plus donate to an assortment of activists' orgs in their desperation to "prove" they aren't racist.

[pcosmar]

Which information is public so far?

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/starbuc...sed-of-racism/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oom/521233002/

https://news.starbucks.com/views/sta...lphia-incident

Regretfully, our practices and training led to a bad outcome—the basis for the call to the Philadelphia police department was wrong. Our store manager never intended for these men to be arrested and this should never have escalated as it did.

[Madison320]

I wasn't asserting anything except that nobody commenting here or on social media was actually there... so to assert that they kicked them out because they were black is kinda ridiculous.

I think what triggered them being asked to leave was when one guy asked to use the bathroom. That was what the police chief said and I heard it somewhere else also. Plus it makes sense. I'd bet anything that was store policy.

[dannno]

u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer

You don't know jack $#@!.

[dannno]

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/starbuc...sed-of-racism/
https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...oom/521233002/

https://news.starbucks.com/views/sta...lphia-incident

The manager didn't want them arrested, great, but I was talking about the employee or manager who asked them to leave and whether that in and of itself was 'because they were black' or whether it was because the person was acting inappropriately for someone who wasn't buying anything. If you buy something, you can act a little more inappropriately than if you don't buy something, but there are still limits in both cases. I'm not defending what the cops did, but I don't really know what information they were acting on though either.

[Madison320]

Speak politely to the men,, and find out why they are there..
Speak to the Manager,,

Keep The Peace. if they are to exist at all..

The Man who asked to meet them there for Business arrived and verified their story. He was there to buy the coffee.

I would argue that the primary job of the police is not to "Keep the Peace", but to protect property rights. Suppose you catch someone breaking into your home and you call the police. "Keeping the Peace" could mean letting him go instead of arresting him.

The two guys should've left peacefully when they were asked and then they could make a big deal out of it. By refusing they were committing a crime. If I want someone off of my property I don't want to have to prove that I have moral justification to do so. I just want it done.

[dannno]

I think what triggered them being asked to leave was when one guy asked to use the bathroom. That was what the police chief said and I heard it somewhere else also. Plus it makes sense. I'd bet anything that was store policy.

Nah, it was more than that.

Starbucks can get hectic during rush hour, but most of the time they are kinda like a library except everybody is quietly working on their computers.

If you go in and you are quiet and you sit in the corner and you go up and ask to use the restroom, no matter what color skin you have you won't have a problem.

If you go in there and you are making a scene and bothering the customers and not buying anything, then you ask to use the restroom they will probably use that as an excuse to get you out of there.

[pcosmar]

I would argue that the primary job of the police is not to "Keep the Peace", but to protect property rights. Suppose you catch someone breaking into your home and you call the police. "Keeping the Peace" could mean letting him go instead of arresting him.

The two guys should've left peacefully when they were asked and then they could make a big deal out of it. By refusing they were committing a crime. If I want someone off of my property I don't want to have to prove that I have moral justification to do so. I just want it done.

Police should not exist in a free and civilized society.... Period.

Police are Enforcers of Control.. "Police" by definition are "to control"..
It is an authoritarian construct... and necessary for authoritarian society.. But has no place in a Free Society.


If you want someone off you property then man up an remove them yourself rather that some STATE Bully boys.
Responsibility,, for your actions,, and the consequences.

Calling police is a cowardly duck of responsibility.

[NorthCarolinaLiberty]

which one of yall $#@!ers wrote the "ron paul" racist news letters

thank you for the useless, completely irrelevant theoretical scenario. 1056 logged hours watching stefan molyneux and that's all you have to show for us

...turn this forum into a caricature of itself - which you guys are doing a mighty fine job at if i do say so myself.

But all we see is the conjecture of not-so-closeted racists like yourself.

The employee actually is disgusted at the sight of black people and attempts to get them kicked out any chance he/she gets.

u talk a big game but we all know u are like roy moore and his jewish lawyer

LOL! You are the absolute worst infiltrator among your ultra progressive group on RPF. If I were your manager, then I would either cut your pay or get rid of you altogether. Geez, PRB is in the red rep, but he was a zillion times more skilled than you. You really stink, holmes.

@PRB, get back here and show this hothead how it's done! LOL

[Influenza]

You don't know jack $#@!.

the more emotional you get the more you will be taking seriously

p.s. can someone wheel NCL back to his nursing home he seems to have gotten lose again