Starbucks in hot water for having cops remove two black men from Philly store

[Anti Federalist]

It was an anarchist paradise. They also had one of the highest murder rates in the world.

Freedom is messy.

I doubt that North Korea has much violent "street crime" for instance.

If you were to give cops unlimited plenipotentiary power to search, seize, arrest and execute on the spot, I reckon you would see a decrease in violent street crime.

Is that a society you want to live in?

It's not one I want to live in.

Let me close by asking a question back: do you disagree with my notion to not ever call cops and if so, why?

[specsaregood]

@Anti Federalist

Supposedly Racist Manager 'Is An SJW Feminist Of The Highest Order'

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

[Brian4Liberty]

All of this commotion over a typical human interaction. What a pathetic state of affairs. Boycott a huge corporation because two people most likely got into an ego battle.

Unless there were multiple camera angles with sensitive microphones from the moment they walked in until they were taken away, we will never know exactly what occurred. And we will NEVER know what was going on in people's minds, despite hysteria to the contrary. What we have now is a little bit of out of context video and an undisputed general outline (guy wanted to use restroom, wasn't given code because he hadn't bought anything, they refused to leave, Police were called, Police removed them).

Everyone likes to speculate on what happened, and what secret thoughts were going on in people's heads. As a matter of fact, that is the basis for this manufactured outrage. Apparently magical mind reading tells everyone that there was a ungood racist thought in someone's head, and now the entire corporation must suffer.

As far as scenarios go, it's always fun to speculate, although that speculation is often wrong.

Here's a scenario that writes itself. All you need is the cast of characters and some stereotypes:

Actor 1 - Starbuck's manager with petty tyrant syndrome.
Actor 2 - Black man with a chip on his shoulder.
Actor 3 - The Police. Standard rules of engagement apply.
Actor 4 - Business man who wanted to meet the two guys there who wants to make a scene and a Federal case out of it.

The script writes itself.

[Anti Federalist]

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

[specsaregood]

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

Not at all, I just wouldn't get all smug about what is likely a bull$#@! story.

[dannno]

Not hard to believe though, is it?

That the behind the counter help at Starbucks, in a trendy urban location, is a SJW type?

Smart money is on SJW.

[Anti Federalist]

They were trespassing. There is no inalienable right to sit in a Starbucks; if the manager asks you to leave, you should leave. Philadelphia Police Commissioner Richard Ross has drawn criticism for defending the officers who made the arrests, but the cops did what they were supposed to do, given the situation. The mistake was the decision to call the cops in the first place.

http://reason.com/blog/2018/04/17/st...ia-racism-cops

[Swordsmyth]

Philadelphia police have released a recording of the call from the Starbucks employee that led to the arrest of two black men.
In the recording, a woman is heard saying, "Hi, I have two gentlemen in my cafe that are refusing to make a purchase or leave." She gives the address of the Starbucks store, and the entire call lasts less than 30 seconds.
Starbucks said Tuesday that the employee who made the call no longer works at the store, but declined to give details.
In the communications between police and dispatch that were also released, someone refers to the situation as a "disturbance," and additional officers are sent.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-st...144419373.html

[Anti Federalist]

Philadelphia police have released a recording of the call from the Starbucks employee that led to the arrest of two black men.
In the recording, a woman is heard saying, "Hi, I have two gentlemen in my cafe that are refusing to make a purchase or leave." She gives the address of the Starbucks store, and the entire call lasts less than 30 seconds.
Starbucks said Tuesday that the employee who made the call no longer works at the store, but declined to give details.
In the communications between police and dispatch that were also released, someone refers to the situation as a "disturbance," and additional officers are sent.

More at: https://www.yahoo.com/news/latest-st...144419373.html

I'll bet good money on two things now:

A - That whoever made that call was in fact a SJW.

B - That there is written policy in the Starbucks franchise manual that specifically states to "call the cops" in a situation like this and not to engage or talk to or try to de-escalate. "Safety First"!

[Swordsmyth]

I'll bet good money on two things now:

A - That whoever made that call was in fact a SJW.

B - That there is written policy in the Starbucks franchise manual that specifically states to "call the cops" in a situation like this and not to engage or talk to or try to de-escalate. "Safety First"!

I would add C: The two men were looking for a chance to scream RACISM or they would have bought some cheap item.
I was once asked to make a purchase or leave a store, I bought a $1 cookie and that was the end of it.

[dannno]

That's hardly a reliable source. An unnamed supposed frequent customer that supposedly writes into a right-wing talking head? I wouldn't get too excited by those claims.

To be fair, they probably tried getting the word out to multiple outlets but a right-wing publication was the only one that wanted to pick it up.

[Madison320]

Freedom is messy.

I doubt that North Korea has much violent "street crime" for instance.

If you were to give cops unlimited plenipotentiary power to search, seize, arrest and execute on the spot, I reckon you would see a decrease in violent street crime.

Is that a society you want to live in?

It's not one I want to live in.

Let me close by asking a question back: do you disagree with my notion to not ever call cops and if so, why?

Yes. Suppose someone decides to park on my front lawn and they refuse to move when I ask them. I'd call the cops. If I take the law into my own hands, it would eventually become a government matter anyway.

[Madison320]

Indeed, it's human nature. Government tends to legitimize it, in many ways, but without it . . .

I'm still picturing Starbucks police versus the Loitering People police. Who will win?

I think Starbucks police would win. The Loitering People police would just stand there not doing anything. Who knows, though? It could be an epic fight. Then the Philadelphia police would show up and each team would compete to offer the best service at the lowest price. People would vote with their wallets, and then the proceeds could be used to replace any police who were maimed during the fighting. It seems to be a fairly solid business model.

I agree. What could possibly go wrong?

[Madison320]

Their business is none of yours nor Starbucks..

This is what bother me. It's Starbuck's property so it is Starbuck's business. It's anti property right attitudes like this, on a supposedly libertarian website, that's disturbing. Property rights exist, even for evil big businesses.



It reminds me of articles like this:

"Starbucks did it. Is it OK to kick you out of a store?"

"Under what circumstances can a clerk or other employee order a person to leave a store?"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ace/521750002/

[nikcers]

They gotta clear the store of non customers so customers come in to the store. No one has time to go into a Starbucks full of people and spend 15 minutes getting coffee. You gotta look at the corporate response to the millennial culture of not liking to touch raw meat and waiting in line. In the end though at least you can have 20 baconaters delivered to your door with the push of a button on your phone.

[Madison320]

Another,, another Starbuck I believe.. Same overall result. Video recorded earlier this year,,
http://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/...o-emerges.html

Do you think racism should be illegal?

[nikcers]

Do you think racism should be illegal?

Can you scientifically measure the racism or qualify it somehow? Is this the type of racism that gets people to methodologically start secret societies and install their members in positions of power all around the world and carry out genocide or just plain ole I don't like someone who is a stranger to me standing behind me while I am at the ATM racism?

[nobody's_hero]

I wonder what would happen if I open-carried into a Starbucks, was asked to leave, and didn't.

[Anti Federalist]

Yes. Suppose someone decides to park on my front lawn and they refuse to move when I ask them. I'd call the cops. If I take the law into my own hands, it would eventually become a government matter anyway.

I disagree.

[pcosmar]

Do you think racism should be illegal?

In personal belief,,no.
In public practice..yes..

And if it is YOUR belief,, then it becomes YOUR Responsibility to avoid contact with offensive "races".. and you would have no place in a free and open society... by your own hand.

Your own beliefs would force you to leave,, rather than interact...

Personally I liken Racism to mental illness.

not illegal,, but not healthy either.

[Anti Federalist]

This is what bother me. It's Starbuck's property so it is Starbuck's business. It's anti property right attitudes like this, on a supposedly libertarian website, that's disturbing. Property rights exist, even for evil big businesses.



It reminds me of articles like this:

"Starbucks did it. Is it OK to kick you out of a store?"

"Under what circumstances can a clerk or other employee order a person to leave a store?"

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money...ace/521750002/

I don't disagree with this.

Yes, they had every right to run these guys off, for any reason or no reason at all.

Was it the correct thing to do, and was it correct to call the cops and get them involved.

Or maybe productive might be a better word, since none of this nonsense is "correct".

Trying to run a business in today's environment is next to impossible, trying to placate every grievance group out there.

Unless you're willing to tell the Internet Outrage Squads to $#@! off on a daily basis.

You're in business to make money, and this is going to cost millions and millions by the time those Internet Outrage Squads move on to some other new calamity.

Starbucks won the battle but lost the war, like bad safe crackers using explosives to open a safe door and blowing up the money inside.

Yeah, they got the door open, but to what advantage?

[Madison320]

I disagree.

What would you do?

[Valli6]

Kind of surprised that no one in the media thought about whether the big strong men were bullying a small female Starbucks employee with their patriarchal attitude... She may be experiencing all kinds of PTSD right now. If she had a more popular skin color, she would get to be the victim here.

[Madison320]

In personal belief,,no.
In public practice..yes..

And if it is YOUR belief,, then it becomes YOUR Responsibility to avoid contact with offensive "races".. and you would have no place in a free and open society... by your own hand.

Your own beliefs would force you to leave,, rather than interact...

Personally I liken Racism to mental illness.

not illegal,, but not healthy either.

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

[Madison320]

Kind of surprised that no one in the media thought about whether the big strong men were bullying a small female Starbucks employee with their patriarchal attitude... She may be experiencing all kinds of PTSD right now. If she had a more popular skin color, she would get to be the victim here.

99% of the articles don't mention the gender of the manager. It messes up the narrative.

[nobody's_hero]

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

"Bake that cake!"

[Madison320]

I don't disagree with this.

Yes, they had every right to run these guys off, for any reason or no reason at all.

Was it the correct thing to do, and was it correct to call the cops and get them involved.

Or maybe productive might be a better word, since none of this nonsense is "correct".

Trying to run a business in today's environment is next to impossible, trying to placate every grievance group out there.

Unless you're willing to tell the Internet Outrage Squads to $#@! off on a daily basis.

You're in business to make money, and this is going to cost millions and millions by the time those Internet Outrage Squads move on to some other new calamity.

Starbucks won the battle but lost the war, like bad safe crackers using explosives to open a safe door and blowing up the money inside.

Yeah, they got the door open, but to what advantage?

I agree with a lot of this but what should Starbucks do? They're in a no-win situation. If they let non-customers hang out, it'll drive out paying customers. The real outrage is the fact that Starbucks doesn't really own their business.

[pcosmar]

I don't understand your answer. If Starbucks put up a sign that said "No Blacks Allowed In Store", should that be illegal in your opinion?

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

[timosman]

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

Are you trying to get RPF in a hot water by admitting you are a violent person and ready to kill and burn?

[Madison320]

Illegal?

I don't really think that way..

I certainly would not want or allow such in my community. and may be forced to take action if such stupidity could not be mediated..

I would burn the bastard out.. Perhaps shoot him dead in the street as an example,, if he interfered.

But then it would expose my area of intolerance.

So if Starbucks in your neighborhood put up a "No Blacks" sign you'd take action against them? What kind of action?

Who would you shoot dead in the street? I'm not sure who you're referring to.