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Thread: Starbucks in hot water for having cops remove two black men from Philly store

  1. #211
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Then you don't believe in liberty, liberty means people are free to do bad and stupid things that you don't like.
    It also means responsibility..

    I keep the peace where I am.. I am the law,, be it force of nature, or hand of God.
    I tolerate much,, and mostly ignore the stupidity of others.
    I will not tolerate abuse in my presence. and my history has examples.. I Know my Reflexes.
    I will not tolerate a thief. And I will correct the stupidity of Racism..

    It is a TOOL of Control..
    It is used quite effectively in prisons to prevent any organizing among inmates.
    There is no way for guards to maintain control without it..

    and that is fact.

    are you a tool of the guards?
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



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  3. #212
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It also means responsibility..

    I keep the peace where I am.. I am the law,, be it force of nature, or hand of God.
    I tolerate much,, and mostly ignore the stupidity of others.
    I will not tolerate abuse in my presence. and my history has examples.. I Know my Reflexes.
    I will not tolerate a thief. And I will correct the stupidity of Racism..

    It is a TOOL of Control..
    It is used quite effectively in prisons to prevent any organizing among inmates.
    There is no way for guards to maintain control without it..

    and that is fact.

    are you a tool of the guards?
    I oppose racism but controlling it is used as an excuse to take away liberty by the "guards", are you any different if you impose your will on others?
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  4. #213
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I oppose racism but controlling it is used as an excuse to take away liberty by the "guards", are you any different if you impose your will on others?
    It is used,,..Racism is NOT LIBERTY.. Free To Hate.. is a piss poor use of Freedom.

    Racism is Used.. It is used to divide people, and by dividing them,, Control people..

    Pushing racism,, (as the media does) continues the use of racism. Accepting it promotes it.

    STOP.. There is not such thing as race.. Stop thinking there is.. Stop using it as a tool.

    Reject it out of hand...... and don't even attempt to justify it ever for any cause.

    It is nothing but divisive. and that by deliberate and malicious intent.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  5. #214
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    It is used,,..Racism is NOT LIBERTY.. Free To Hate.. is a piss poor use of Freedom.

    Racism is Used.. It is used to divide people, and by dividing them,, Control people..

    Pushing racism,, (as the media does) continues the use of racism. Accepting it promotes it.

    STOP.. There is not such thing as race.. Stop thinking there is.. Stop using it as a tool.

    Reject it out of hand...... and don't even attempt to justify it ever for any cause.

    It is nothing but divisive. and that by deliberate and malicious intent.
    I oppose racism but people have a right to be wrong, racism should be opposed with ideas not with force, using force makes it look to others like you can't win the debate and it opens the door to more thought control or a racist backlash.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  6. #215
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    I oppose racism but people have a right to be wrong, racism should be opposed with ideas not with force, using force makes it look to others like you can't win the debate and it opens the door to more thought control or a racist backlash.
    I understand that people can be wrong.

    That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
    I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

    Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
    And that is where we are.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  7. #216
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I understand that people can be wrong.

    That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
    I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

    Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
    And that is where we are.
    Shunning racists is fine, using violence on them is not.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment



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  9. #217
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I understand that people can be wrong.

    That is no reason to do business with them,, or speak to them or accept them as respectable.
    I believe that type of stupidity should be ridiculed and denigrated,, till those anti social individuals go away.

    Listening to them and allowing their poison to infect society will have debilitating effects for generations.
    And that is where we are.
    Seems perfectly reasonable, however you seem to be misguided, because the obligation falls on those who cry foul to actually not do business with the offenders. (not sure how that works in this case since they weren't doing any business WITH Starbucks as much as they were doing business IN Starbucks)

    People who hold racist views don't owe you anything. Maybe they are wrong, and maybe you should avoid them. But they aren't going tippy-toe over your feelings.

    I have greater concern that our politically correct culture will devolve into the state that Europe is in, where overly-triggered people will clamor for legal punishments of those who speak what is on their minds. (we are much closer to that, IMO, than a re-institutionalization of racism)

    Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 04-18-2018 at 09:26 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  10. #218
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post

    Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.
    Mostly so..except in discussion such as this.

    Racism is Institutionalized in this country.. Deeply ingrained. and government sponsored.

    There are a great many things done in cities that I certainly would do differently. and some cities worse than others.

    I have a W on my prison #.... I was a Clerk there.. and I know the Prison Number system..
    The STATE says I'm White.


    I am not defined by the state. I simply have to deal with it while I'm here.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  11. #219
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    Shunning racists is fine, using violence on them is not.
    Perhaps,,
    My experience is that violence comes FROM there. but I have met it head on.

    I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  12. #220
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Perhaps,,
    My experience is that violence comes FROM there. but I have met it head on.
    If they start it then the deserve to get it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.
    And how would you enforce that?
    Send Kops to use violence and shut them down? Or would you use a lynch mob instead?
    That way leads to tyranny.
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  13. #221
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    Mostly so..except in discussion such as this.

    Racism is Institutionalized in this country.. Deeply ingrained. and government sponsored.

    There are a great many things done in cities that I certainly would do differently. and some cities worse than others.

    I have a W on my prison #.... I was a Clerk there.. and I know the Prison Number system..
    The STATE says I'm White.


    I am not defined by the state. I simply have to deal with it while I'm here.
    Well that's fine if that's how you see yourself. However you want to see yourself is totally up to you, but do not expect nor demand others to see you the same way. In reality people will define you by your appearance. No way around it. I.e. if I go rob a store, the radio will say something like, "white male, 5'10', overweight, receding hairline."

    It seems "highly individualized individual not inclined to allowing himself to be defined by preconceptions placed upon him by others" is a bit too vague and more than a mouthful.
    Last edited by nobody's_hero; 04-18-2018 at 09:40 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by timosman View Post
    This is getting silly.
    Quote Originally Posted by Swordsmyth View Post
    It started silly.
    T.S. Eliot's The Hollow Men

    "One of the penalties for refusing to participate in politics is that you end up being governed by your inferiors." - Plato

    We Are Running Out of Time - Mini Me

    Quote Originally Posted by Philhelm
    I part ways with "libertarianism" when it transitions from ideology grounded in logic into self-defeating autism for the sake of ideological purity.

  14. #222
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    I would be fine with pulling the business license of such a business though.
    I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.

    "I would be in favor of pulling the business license of any business that sells guns and ammo" says the Bolshevik leftist.

    Or any other daily outrage...the possibilities are endless...and the ability to control thoughts and actions endless as well, when you threaten with state force, the right to earn a living for having impolitic thoughts.

    There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.

  15. #223
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.

    "I would be in favor of pulling the business license of any business that sells guns and ammo" says the Bolshevik leftist.

    Or any other daily outrage...the possibilities are endless...and the ability to control thoughts and actions endless as well, when you threaten with state force, the right to earn a living for having impolitic thoughts.

    There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.
    You must spread some reputation around.......
    Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.

    Robert Heinlein

    Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler

    Groucho Marx

    I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.

    Linus, from the Peanuts comic

    You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith

    Alexis de Torqueville

    Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
    Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it

    A Zero Hedge comment

  16. #224
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post

    There shouldn't be such a thing as a "license" to do business in a free society.
    In a free society. Dude,, we can dream..

    I a free society there would be no police to call,, even if there was reason for such.
    In a free society there would be no locks on the damn bathroom.

    any decent community would have public facilities,, as a matter of course.

    In a Free society,,,,,, yeah well. We have what we have. and we deal with it.

    Racism Sucks and invades nearly every aspect of life these days. My opposition is based in my Faith,, but I was trying not to take the thread there.

    Darwinism is an ugly lie that has become religion and faith to most. The Concept of "Races" is repugnant..and trips my trigger..

    The only other Race that has ever inhabited this planet other than Human,, is the nephalim.. They were/are not Human.

    I watched the videos,,both of them.. The damn CEO came to the same damn conclusion... They have a problem with racism.

    How they address it is yet to be seen.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom



  17. Remove this section of ads by registering.
  18. #225
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    In a free society. Dude,, we can dream..

    I a free society there would be no police to call,, even if there was reason for such.
    In a free society there would be no locks on the damn bathroom.

    any decent community would have public facilities,, as a matter of course.

    In a Free society,,,,,, yeah well. We have what we have. and we deal with it.

    Racism Sucks and invades nearly every aspect of life these days. My opposition is based in my Faith,, but I was trying not to take the thread there.

    Darwinism is an ugly lie that has become religion and faith to most. The Concept of "Races" is repugnant..and trips my trigger..

    The only other Race that has ever inhabited this planet other than Human,, is the nephalim.. They were/are not Human.

    I watched the videos,,both of them.. The damn CEO came to the same damn conclusion... They have a problem with racism.

    How they address it is yet to be seen.
    Yeah, not gonna go there either, already been down a different road with Mrs AF on that, not about to touch it with a ten foot pole.

    I have an issue with the state putting you out of business for crimethink, that's all I'm pointing out.

  19. #226
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Yeah, not gonna go there either, already been down a different road with Mrs AF on that, not about to touch it with a ten foot pole.

    I have an issue with the state putting you out of business for crimethink, that's all I'm pointing out.
    They already do..
    I would prefer the community,, rather than the state..

    I would prefer there to be much fewer laws altogether,,, and that things like abortion would not have to be "legal or illegal" but would simply be unacceptable..
    The same for Public drunkenness.. or other lewd behavior.. No laws necessary.. just a sense of decency.

    But that has to be local and not imposed by some central government. And it has to be a "We the People" thing.. that is wholly lacking.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  20. #227
    Now that they have explained their side I can say I have had the exact same thing happen to me, while guilty of being a greasy biker.

    I am white.

    This is much less about racism, and much more about the knee jerk reaction indoctrinated into people to "call the cops" at the slightest of issues or problems.


    Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

    https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Rashon Nelson initially brushed it off when the Starbucks manager told him he couldn’t use the restroom because he wasn’t a paying customer.

    He thought nothing of it when he and his business partner, Donte Robinson, were approached at their table and were asked if they needed help. The 23-year-old entrepreneurs declined, explaining they were just waiting for a business meeting.

    A few minutes later, they hardly noticed when the police walked into the coffee shop — until officers started walking in their direction.

    “That’s when we knew she called the police on us,” Nelson told The Associated Press in the men’s first interview since video of their April 12 arrests went viral.

    Nelson and Robinson, black men who became best friends in the fourth grade, were taken in handcuffs from the Starbucks in Philadelphia’s tony Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, where Robinson has been a customer since he was 15.

    The video, recorded on a white customer’s cellphone video, galvanized people around the country who saw the exchange as modern-day racism. In the week since, the men have met with Starbucks’ CEO and have started pushing for lasting changes to ensure what happened to them doesn’t happen to anyone else.

    “We were there for a real reason, a real deal that we were working on,” Robinson explained. “We put in a lot of time, energy, effort. ... We were at a moment that could have a positive impact on a whole ladder of people, lives, families. So I was like, ‘No, you’re not stopping that right now.’”

    Robinson said he thought about his loved ones and how the afternoon had taken such a turn as he was taken to jail. Nelson wondered if he’d make it home alive.

    “Anytime I’m encountered by cops, I can honestly say it’s a thought that runs through my mind,” Nelson said. “You never know what’s going to happen.”

    Democratic Mayor Jim Kenney, who is white, said what happened at the Starbucks “appears to exemplify what racial discrimination looks like in 2018.” Police Commissioner Richard Ross, who’s black, said in a Facebook post that arresting officers “did absolutely nothing wrong,” and added that Nelson and Robinson were disrespectful to officers.

    Ross said officers did what they were supposed to do and were professional in their dealings with the men, “and instead they got the opposite back.”

    Nelson and Robinson originally were supposed to meet Andrew Yaffe, a white local businessman, at a Starbucks across town. But the plan changed, and they agreed to meet at the Rittenhouse Square location, where they’d met several times before on a potential real estate opportunity.

    The black men arrived a few minutes early. Three police officers showed up not long after.

    Nelson said they weren’t questioned but were told to leave immediately.

    Yaffe showed up as the men were being handcuffed. He can be seen in the video demanding an explanation for the officers’ actions. Nelson and Robinson did not resist arrest, confused and unsure of what to think or what might happen next.

    “When you know that you did nothing wrong, how do you really react to it?” Nelson said. “You can either be ignorant or you can show some type of sophistication and act like you have class. That was the choice we had.”

    It was hardly their first encounter with police, a rite of passage that becomes a regular occurrence for many black men their age. But neither had been arrested before, setting them apart from many of their peers in the gritty southwest Philadelphia neighborhood where they grew up.

    Robinson briefly wondered what he might’ve done to bring the moment on himself.

    “I feel like I fell short,” he explained. “I’m trying to think of something I did wrong, to put not just me but my brother, my lifelong friend ... in this situation.”

    Attorney Stewart Cohen, representing Nelson and Robinson, said the men were illegally profiled. He pointed to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race in hotels, restaurants, theaters and other public accommodations.

    Seattle-based Starbucks Corp. has said the location where the arrests occurred has a policy that restrooms are for paying customers only.

    Nelson and Robinson spent hours in a jail cell with no outside contact and no sense of what would happen next. They were released after midnight, when the district attorney declined to prosecute them for trespassing. They had no idea the video of their arrests was making the rounds on the internet.

    The day after their arrests, they thought about what to do next.

    “You go from being someone who’s just trying to be an entrepreneur, having your own dreams and aspirations, and then this happens,” Nelson said. “How do you handle it? Do you stand up? Do you fight? Do you sit down and just watch everyone else fight for you? Do you let it slide, like we let everything else slide with injustice?”

    Robinson, still focused on the previous day’s business deal, called Yaffe to reschedule. Yaffe told him about the video and the traction it had gotten.

    Over the weekend, attention and outrage over the video grew, prompting a protest at the local Starbucks restaurant and a national boycott. By Monday, the men were set to meet with Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson to discuss what happened.

    Johnson has responded quickly to public outcry around the arrests, calling them “reprehensible,” apologizing and ordering stores closed for mandatory training to tackle unconscious bias.

    Nelson and Robinson said they’re looking for more lasting results and are in mediation proceedings with Starbucks to implement changes, including the posting in stores of a customer bill of rights; the adoption of new policies regarding customer ejections, racial profiling and racial discrimination; and independent investigations of complaints of profiling or discrimination from customers and employees.

    Robinson said he appreciates the public support the men have received but anger and boycotting Starbucks are not the solution.

    “We need a different type of action ... not words,” he said. “It’s a time to pay attention and understand what’s really going on. We do want a seat at the table.”

  21. #228
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    I've been watching this exchange Pete, and I was understanding your point up to here.
    You were understanding with the part where he says he'd kill the owner of a business who only allowed whites?

  22. #229
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    You were understanding with the part where he says he'd kill the owner of a business who only allowed whites?
    And you can take your Stormfront ass down the road too.

    Lying bastards love to twist what is not said into whatever they want.
    Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
    Ron Paul 2004

    Registered Ron Paul supporter # 2202
    It's all about Freedom

  23. #230
    Quote Originally Posted by nobody's_hero View Post

    I have greater concern that our politically correct culture will devolve into the state that Europe is in, where overly-triggered people will clamor for legal punishments of those who speak what is on their minds. (we are much closer to that, IMO, than a re-institutionalization of racism)

    Which is why these days, whenever someone throws up the race card, I just roll my eyes. Seems people these days are too focused on flaunting their victimhood than overcoming it.
    The "race card" thing is not just annoying, it's a major violation of property rights and a major expense for businesses. Discriminations laws are one of my pet peeves. It's hard to feel sympathy for the problems of minorities when you have a gun pointed at your head. Believe it or not it reminds me of global warming. It's hard for me to listen to the global warming arguments when I know the "solution" is to steal from me.

  24. #231
    Quote Originally Posted by pcosmar View Post
    And you can take your Stormfront ass down the road too.

    Lying bastards love to twist what is not said into whatever they want.
    Are you calling me a liar?

  25. #232
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Now that they have explained their side I can say I have had the exact same thing happen to me, while guilty of being a greasy biker.

    I am white.

    This is much less about racism, and much more about the knee jerk reaction indoctrinated into people to "call the cops" at the slightest of issues or problems.


    Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

    https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378

    PHILADELPHIA (AP) — Rashon Nelson initially brushed it off when the Starbucks manager told him he couldn’t use the restroom because he wasn’t a paying customer.

    He thought nothing of it when he and his business partner, Donte Robinson, were approached at their table and were asked if they needed help. The 23-year-old entrepreneurs declined, explaining they were just waiting for a business meeting.

    A few minutes later, they hardly noticed when the police walked into the coffee shop — until officers started walking in their direction.

    “That’s when we knew she called the police on us,” Nelson told The Associated Press in the men’s first interview since video of their April 12 arrests went viral.

    Nelson and Robinson, black men who became best friends in the fourth grade, were taken in handcuffs from the Starbucks in Philadelphia’s tony Rittenhouse Square neighborhood, where Robinson has been a customer since he was 15.

    The video, recorded on a white customer’s cellphone video, galvanized people around the country who saw the exchange as modern-day racism. In the week since, the men have met with Starbucks’ CEO and have started pushing for lasting changes to ensure what happened to them doesn’t happen to anyone else.

    “We were there for a real reason, a real deal that we were working on,” Robinson explained. “We put in a lot of time, energy, effort. ... We were at a moment that could have a positive impact on a whole ladder of people, lives, families. So I was like, ‘No, you’re not stopping that right now.’”

    Robinson said he thought about his loved ones and how the afternoon had taken such a turn as he was taken to jail. Nelson wondered if he’d make it home alive.

    “Anytime I’m encountered by cops, I can honestly say it’s a thought that runs through my mind,” Nelson said. “You never know what’s going to happen.”

    Democratic Mayor Jim Kenney, who is white, said what happened at the Starbucks “appears to exemplify what racial discrimination looks like in 2018.” Police Commissioner Richard Ross, who’s black, said in a Facebook post that arresting officers “did absolutely nothing wrong,” and added that Nelson and Robinson were disrespectful to officers.

    Ross said officers did what they were supposed to do and were professional in their dealings with the men, “and instead they got the opposite back.”

    Nelson and Robinson originally were supposed to meet Andrew Yaffe, a white local businessman, at a Starbucks across town. But the plan changed, and they agreed to meet at the Rittenhouse Square location, where they’d met several times before on a potential real estate opportunity.

    The black men arrived a few minutes early. Three police officers showed up not long after.

    Nelson said they weren’t questioned but were told to leave immediately.

    Yaffe showed up as the men were being handcuffed. He can be seen in the video demanding an explanation for the officers’ actions. Nelson and Robinson did not resist arrest, confused and unsure of what to think or what might happen next.

    “When you know that you did nothing wrong, how do you really react to it?” Nelson said. “You can either be ignorant or you can show some type of sophistication and act like you have class. That was the choice we had.”

    It was hardly their first encounter with police, a rite of passage that becomes a regular occurrence for many black men their age. But neither had been arrested before, setting them apart from many of their peers in the gritty southwest Philadelphia neighborhood where they grew up.

    Robinson briefly wondered what he might’ve done to bring the moment on himself.

    “I feel like I fell short,” he explained. “I’m trying to think of something I did wrong, to put not just me but my brother, my lifelong friend ... in this situation.”

    Attorney Stewart Cohen, representing Nelson and Robinson, said the men were illegally profiled. He pointed to Title II of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which prohibits discrimination on the basis of race in hotels, restaurants, theaters and other public accommodations.

    Seattle-based Starbucks Corp. has said the location where the arrests occurred has a policy that restrooms are for paying customers only.

    Nelson and Robinson spent hours in a jail cell with no outside contact and no sense of what would happen next. They were released after midnight, when the district attorney declined to prosecute them for trespassing. They had no idea the video of their arrests was making the rounds on the internet.

    The day after their arrests, they thought about what to do next.

    “You go from being someone who’s just trying to be an entrepreneur, having your own dreams and aspirations, and then this happens,” Nelson said. “How do you handle it? Do you stand up? Do you fight? Do you sit down and just watch everyone else fight for you? Do you let it slide, like we let everything else slide with injustice?”

    Robinson, still focused on the previous day’s business deal, called Yaffe to reschedule. Yaffe told him about the video and the traction it had gotten.

    Over the weekend, attention and outrage over the video grew, prompting a protest at the local Starbucks restaurant and a national boycott. By Monday, the men were set to meet with Starbucks CEO Kevin Johnson to discuss what happened.

    Johnson has responded quickly to public outcry around the arrests, calling them “reprehensible,” apologizing and ordering stores closed for mandatory training to tackle unconscious bias.

    Nelson and Robinson said they’re looking for more lasting results and are in mediation proceedings with Starbucks to implement changes, including the posting in stores of a customer bill of rights; the adoption of new policies regarding customer ejections, racial profiling and racial discrimination; and independent investigations of complaints of profiling or discrimination from customers and employees.

    Robinson said he appreciates the public support the men have received but anger and boycotting Starbucks are not the solution.

    “We need a different type of action ... not words,” he said. “It’s a time to pay attention and understand what’s really going on. We do want a seat at the table.”
    Couldn't they've just ordered some coffee?



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  27. #233
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Couldn't they've just ordered some coffee?
    It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  28. #234
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.
    So?

  29. #235
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    So?
    ... before they ordered.

    Don't need a weather man to know which way the wind blows

  30. #236
    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    ... before they ordered.
    Anyone could say that. If you are going to have a "paying customer policy" but then your employees have to decide if a non paying customer's excuse is valid, then you're introducing subjectiveness and even more lawsuits.

    Besides I've been in that situation and I always order something while I'm waiting.

  31. #237
    Quote Originally Posted by Anti Federalist View Post
    Men arrested at Starbucks say they feared for their lives

    https://apnews.com/45547c3ae5324b679e982c4847ee1378

    Quote Originally Posted by shakey1 View Post
    It could be they were waiting on the folks that were meeting them there.
    This article conveniently drops a number of verbal exchanges that were in previous accounts of the story when it first come out.
    Including:
    The manager asking them to leave after they refused to become a customer.
    The non-customers refusing to leave after being asked to.
    The manager telling them that she was going to call the cops.
    The non-customers telling the manager that they didn't care if she called the cops.
    Last edited by specsaregood; 04-19-2018 at 08:50 AM.

  32. #238
    Reading thru this thread is it any wonder why we can't compete in the global market? If a business owner can't even get his property rights protected here, at a supposedly libertarian site, why would anyone open a business in the US?

  33. #239
    Quote Originally Posted by specsaregood View Post
    This article conveniently drops a number of verbal exchanges that were in previous accounts of the story when it first come out.
    Including:
    The manager asking them to leave after they refused to become a customer.
    The non-customers refusing to leave after being asked to.
    The manager telling them that she was going to call the cops.
    The non-customers telling the manager that they didn't care if she called the cops.
    Yeah, the refusing to leave part is kind of important to the story. It completely changes the narrative.

  34. #240
    Quote Originally Posted by Madison320 View Post
    Reading thru this thread is it any wonder why we can't compete in the global market? If a business owner can't even get his property rights protected here, at a supposedly libertarian site, why would anyone open a business in the US?
    It is one reason, yet another from the google discrimination lawsuit:
    A document brought to light by James Damore’s class-action lawsuit against Google and drafted by the company’s HR department instructing managers at the company on how to be “inclusive” cautioned managers against rewarding employees for traits “valued by the U.S. white/male dominant culture”, including individual achievement, and meritocracy.



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