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Thread: Mattis pledges ‘no contact with the migrants’ for troops on Mexico border

  1. #31



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  3. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by dannno View Post
    Stop acting retarded, I already outlined how it works very clearly, just because it doesn't fit into all the little scenarios you are laying out doesn't mean when Trump says, "Mexico is going to pay for it" he is wrong, because he is actually technically correct if you look at the US and Mexico as collective entities.
    No, you haven't laid it out clearly, or in a manner that is technically correct.


    When Mexicans pay money in your scenario, they get American products in return. When the Americans then pay taxes on their income, the thing that they will get in return is a wall.

    It doesn't matter how much it hurts your feelings; in no way are Mexicans paying for the wall.



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  5. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    And we're going to beat them by doing it to ourselves before they can do it to us?
    No, the goal is we will turn things around and make government as a whole smaller, at best, but at worst we will do it to ourselves at a later date. That is what the math says. Putting up a wall only decreases your freedom if you are trying to cross into Mexico or hire them for cheap labor here, but much of the cheap labor is here now so even that is pretty limited. The problem is the cheap labor doesn't cover all of the costs of the immigration because government is so big and offers so much that a lot is tagged on with it. So we decided to stop doing that at least until we have a smaller government.

    Not building a wall or fighting illegal immigration will lead to more socialist policies like single payer healthcare and the rest of the socialist platform, but hey, at least you are free to go to Mexico (although you might want to talk to them about immigration, they have very strict immigration laws unlike us).

    For those of us who are for open borders in a libertarian society, immigration and its effects have to become very extreme to think that closing off immigration is a good idea - but it is in this case. I was somewhat willing to deal with the costs because a lot of their problems down there are our fault, but then when I realized we were creating a snowball effect by bringing more socialist people here and keeping them here by baiting them with big government programs and then who are going to bring our country even further to the left, create more big government services, and use them... well that's when I became at least ok (luke warm) with that part of Trump's platform.. and understand where LE was coming from all those years. It does appear to be leading us toward a complete socialist leftist disaster to me.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

  6. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by TheCount View Post
    No, you haven't laid it out clearly, or in a manner that is technically correct.


    When Mexicans pay money in your scenario, they get American products in return. When the Americans then pay taxes on their income, the thing that they will get in return is a wall.

    It doesn't matter how much it hurts your feelings; in no way are Mexicans paying for the wall.
    You need to look at the bigger picture. Opening our markets to them will create more production here. So instead of sitting at home, some people who are looking for work or can't find any at all and have left the labor pool will be getting good job skills in the market. They won't be on welfare, they will be making their own money and it will be coming from Mexico. They can spend that money here instead of taxpayer money. And yes, some of the resources will go down there, it's only fair.. but then what happens is Mexico will get access to our markets and want to be more productive themselves so they can better afford the goods and services that are now available. The benefits from the mutual exchange that Trump will enable will be immense in the long run and will be great for both countries.

    The wall is going to cost $64/person and that is a one time cost. In 2016 Obamacare cost over $300/person, that is an annual cost, and I have seen articles that show that Obamacare never would have passed without illegal voters, because they put enough people who were elected in congress to pass it over the top. But since you don't believe illegal voters exist, it definitely would not have passed without those who were born here by parents who were illegal at the time.

    So $64 one time cost vs. $300/year just for ONE government program they helped pass. The math seems pretty clear.
    "He's talkin' to his gut like it's a person!!" -me
    "dumpster diving isn't professional." - angelatc


    "Each of us must choose which course of action we should take: education, conventional political action, or even peaceful civil disobedience to bring about necessary changes. But let it not be said that we did nothing." - Ron Paul

    "Paul said "the wave of the future" is a coalition of anti-authoritarian progressive Democrats and libertarian Republicans in Congress opposed to domestic surveillance, opposed to starting new wars and in favor of ending the so-called War on Drugs."

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