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Wow. That's a terrible shock. Hope you all caught it before anything happened.I have a personal advocacy re this story. My 13yo granddaughter and her girlfriend were 'caught' posting pictures and texting on a similar google 'phone' site 2 weeks ago. It caught her mother/my daughter totally by surprise.
What is more concerning about the stories are the "pimps". Did the girls have someone pushing them into this?
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I can't imagine raising girls in the world today. Everything is so hyper-sexualized.
Ah. Yeah, the internet has "connected people", as Zuckerberg would say. Sometimes the wrong people. Children and teenagers can no longer afford to be naive on the internet. Every kid needs to be prepped as if they grew up in the inner city, not some nice suburb or rural area.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Last edited by Brian4Liberty; 04-15-2018 at 10:48 AM.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Now I need to point out that this is the latest victimhood rage on the left. Keep hearing about this as a huge problem that needs to be addressed. We know where this leads. A regulated and controlled internet, where political speech is their highest priority, and things like teen prostitution never get addressed. And we need to point out, it's already illegal!
The video:
"OMG, there are naked pictures on the internet!" Better shut down the internet. Talk about manufactured outrage.
Yes, if a website like Backpage refuses to take down posts with pictures of teens advertised for prostitution, then they should be liable, but that is only after it has been reported and they refuse to take action. Would a classified website refuse to take down other illegal offerings? "Heroin, dirt cheap, meet me behind Walmart." Seems that wouldn't be allowed.
The point is that these things are already illegal, and new laws and regulation is no solution.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I am really sorry about what happened to your grand kid. But if you think shutting down backpage.com will help then don't know the world of sex trafficking. The truth is that the people who take kids right now to sell em for sex are not going to slow down because BP.com got taken down, they would most likely continue to take kids and instead of advertising them on a popular website where family members can find them, they will now go underground. So in the new reality, your grand kid would still be taken but now it would be much harder to find them. You know, if Trump wanted to take a big hit to child trafficking, all he had to do was make prostitution legal cos driving the market further underground would make things worse.
Also, Trump is not a good guy and because of this, whatever he does should be first examined with the understanding that
a) He is trying to help his neocon, big govt, zionist.... friends
or b) He is trying to hurt you..
In the case, I think he is mainly trying to help his big govt friend who think all your business transactions should be taxed and the state should get their cut and if the cant get their cut then said business should be shut down. I say this because the truth is that 99.999% of the people who post of backpage are consenting adults (the vast majority with daddy issues but who am I to judge) just trying to make a buck.
This move is really not that different from when gun grabbers try to punish gun makers and seller for the crimes committed with their product.
Last edited by juleswin; 04-15-2018 at 11:34 AM.
w/o going into too much philosophical or legal 'depth'.... (endless arguments)
I suggest listening to the last part of the last Sen. Portman video addressing the point and purpose and drafting of SESTA.
It was purposely crafted to be 'narrow' and not 'sweeping'.
It is already having it's effect on similar sites shutting THEMSELVES down.
Why?
simple. They're taking their money and running... to avoid jail and asset seizure (see backpage.com)
and
to avoid the coming LOCAL lawsuits and prosecution now enabled by SESTA.
I see it as the only way forward. Victims can now sue. good. end the 'profits'. done.
Last edited by goldenequity; 04-15-2018 at 05:56 PM.
The Koch brothers are also listed as donors. https://cdt.org/financials/The Center for Democracy and Technology (CDT) contains the following major institutions:
AT&T,
Facebook,
Ford Foundation,
Google, Inc.
MacArthur Foundation,
Markle Foundation,
Microsoft,
Yahoo,
and even the George Soros backed Open Society Institute.
The Center for Democracy and Technology supported Rand Paul's fight against renewing the Patriot Act.
http://thehill.com/policy/national-s...nd-pauls-hands
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefi...-koch-brothers
Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) writes that controversial conservative donors Charles and David Koch have "always stood for freedom, equality and opportunity" in a tribute published by Time magazine on Thursday.
“Consistent with their love of liberty, they have become prominent advocates for criminal-justice reform,” the 2016 GOP presidential candidate said in his short piece, published as part of the annual Time 100 list of influential people.
“The Koch brothers’ investment in freedom-loving think tanks will carry on for generations, reminding all of us that ideas and convictions ultimately trump all else," he added.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center...and_Technology
Center for Democracy & Technology (CDT) is a Washington, D.C.-based 501(c)(3) non-profit organization whose mission is to promote an open, innovative, and free Internet.[2]
As an organization with expertise in law, technology, and policy, CDT works to preserve the unique nature of the Internet, enhance freedom of expression globally, protect fundamental rights of privacy, and stronger legal controls on government surveillance by finding practical and innovative solutions to public policy challenges while protecting civil liberties.They also oppose censorship of the internet.The battle against applying the Communications Assistance for Law Enforcement Act (CALEA) to the Internet - expanding law enforcement wiretapping capabilities by requiring telephone companies to design their networks to ensure a certain basic level of government access - spurred the creation of CDT in 1994.[4] Recognizing a threat to privacy and innovation in CALEA's design mandates, CDT fought the passage of the CALEA and later worked to ensure that its implementation would not extend to the Internet. In the end, CALEA did not contain wiretapping design mandates for the Internet and required transparency surrounding design standards. Today, CDT leads a strong coalition that fights CALEA expansion, issuing reports by leading security experts that demonstrate how the FBI's latest wiretapping proposal would undermine cybersecurity. CDT's launch was assisted by seed donations from AT&T Corporation, Bell Atlantic, Nynex, Apple, and Microsoft.[5]
CDT utilizes an expertise-based advocacy model and acts as a non-partisan convener to bring all parties with a stake in the Internet to the table. CDT advises government officials, agencies, corporations, and civil society on the policy action that will maintain the open and free nature of the Internet. CDT often works with legislators on controversial legislation. For example, CDT offered opinions on the rework of the Internet Integrity and Critical Infrastructure Protection Act of 2000 (S.2448),[6] a computer-crime bill introduced in the 106th Congress by Senators Orrin Hatch, Patrick Leahy, and Chuck Schumer.
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-15-2018 at 12:07 PM.
Last edited by goldenequity; 04-15-2018 at 12:02 PM.
And of the more prominent websites that inadvertently 'engage in promoting child pornography' and/or 'engage in promoting child sex trafficking?'
Facebook, Youtube, Google, Yahoo, etc.
You see, when you are loose with words, they become descriptors of everything.
And as well, there is a reason why Backpage was taken down and not these other 'promoters,' 'advertisers', and 'profiteers' of child pornography and prostitution.
Might Backpage's departure be because of their open marketplace private sales of firearms and firearms accessories?
https://gizmodo.com/backpage-ceo-ple...erm-1825236756
The Federal Bureau Investigation seized Backpage.com on April 6th, a move commended by the Department of Justice. “For far too long, Backpage.com existed as the dominant marketplace for illicit commercial sex, a place where sex traffickers frequently advertised children and adults alike,” Attorney General Jeff Sessions said in a statement on Thursday. “But this illegality stops right now.”
Lawmakers have pointed at Backpage as a rationale for introducing both the Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act (FOSTA) and Stop Enabling Sex Traffickers Act (SESTA) this year. The intention of the bills is to fight online sex trafficking, but some argue that they will increase online censorship and endanger sex workers by taking away a forum to discuss violent clients as well as pushing them from safe online spaces to the streets. Donald Trump signed the bill into law on Wednesday.
The Sex Workers Outreach Project noted in a statement that services like Backpage provide sex workers with a place to freely discuss potentially dangerous clients, establish boundaries with clients ahead of time, and protect them from police abuse and violence.
Watched it.
He starts out talking about children, and before he is done, it's "women and children". The goal posts are already moving. The slippery slope has started. So it's now about all prostitution, even if they are 60 years old.
There is a problem if a website or tool is actively selling something that is illegal. What do they do about illegal drugs? Did law enforcement also have a problem enforcing that? How was it solved? Portman is saying that all internet content was protected by a law, and he wants an exception for child trafficking. Is there an exception for illegal drugs? Illegal guns? Other illegal things?
I am not up on all of the details involved. What are all of these websites that are now shutting down? Was there a lot of them? Was this a big thing, which some of us never knew about? Kids use apps like Snapchat, was it happening on there?
Will have to defer to @dannno for the latest trends.
Obviously efforts to identify and help anyone being forced into prostitution is a good thing. But aren't the laws already in place?
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
From the bill: https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...ouse-bill/1865
"facilitate" is a broad term. It could cover any website which could knowingly or even unknowing have somebody use it to promote sexual activity. Could include any dating site or any site with advertising.Allow States and Victims to Fight Online Sex Trafficking Act of 2017
(Sec. 2) This bill expresses the sense of Congress that section 230 of the Communications Act of 1934 was not intended to provide legal protection to websites that unlawfully promote and facilitate prostitution and websites that facilitate traffickers in advertising the sale of unlawful sex acts with sex trafficking victims. Section 230 limits the legal liability of interactive computer service providers or users for content they publish that was created by others.
(Sec. 3) The bill amends the federal criminal code to add a new section that imposes penalties—a fine, a prison term of up to 10 years, or both—on a person who, using a facility or means of interstate or foreign commerce, owns, manages, or operates an interactive computer service (or attempts or conspires to do so) to promote or facilitate the prostitution of another person.
Additionally, it establishes enhanced penalties—a fine, a prison term of up to 25 years, or both—for a person who commits the offense in one of the following aggravating circumstances: (1) promotes or facilitates the prostitution of five or more persons, or (2) acts with reckless disregard that such conduct contributes to sex trafficking.
A person injured by an aggravated offense may recover damages and attorneys' fees in a federal civil action.
(more details of the bill at the link)
Even this website could be found guilty. Those pop up banner adds sometimes include "dating" ads. "Meet Russia women!"
Last edited by Zippyjuan; 04-15-2018 at 12:36 PM.
Good questions. The fact that this could be applied to Youtube came to mind. And Backpage had a firearms section? Interesting. I believe Craigslist explicitly bans any gun sales on their website.
Not that this would be the best source for information, but Tosh.0 has exposed some sketchy things on Youtube that are not banned or censored. Seems like Youtube will eventually fall under this new law.
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I hesitate to even discuss it here, because there's little doubt this will quickly evolve into yet another He-Man Woman Haters Club fest. But when I was a girl, there were pictures of naked women around. They were under Dads bed, under Granpa's car seat, buried in a sock drawer. We all knew there were girls who did such shocking things, but there weren't so many of them in our daily lives.
And there's always been pimps hanging out at the bus and train stations in the big city looking for runaway teens, both boys and girls. Shutting Backpage down is just a blip in the radar. It won't make a dent in the underage prostitution numbers, but it will keep three nasty ass old men from getting rich off it.
Ah, that reminds me of something. A single friend was telling me about his experience with dating sites. He says that are now filled with foreign scammers and prostitution. Guess the foreign scammers set-up profiles that say they are local, but then after interacting with them for a while they reveal that they live in Russia and need some money for various things or so they can "travel to the US".
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
Bill Text.
Here is the bill in final form including strikeouts. Read 4 yourself.
https://www.congress.gov/bill/115th-...bill/1693/text
Yes, Backpage had a substantial private firearms marketplace. Ammunition for cheap too. You cannot sell guns or ammo on Craigslist.
Reading the snippet that Zippy posted, it also seems that this bill is more about prostitution in general and less about child trafficking and forced prostitution.
Interesting to note that Backpage was largely (or even mostly) dormant in many cities. Being founded in Phoenix, the website did however have a large user base in Nevada (where prostitution is mostly legal).
"Foreign aid is taking money from the poor people of a rich country, and giving it to the rich people of a poor country." - Ron Paul
"Beware the Military-Industrial-Financial-Pharma-Corporate-Internet-Media-Government Complex." - B4L update of General Dwight D. Eisenhower
"Debt is the drug, Wall St. Banksters are the dealers, and politicians are the addicts." - B4L
"Totally free immigration? I've never taken that position. I believe in national sovereignty." - Ron Paul
Proponent of real science.
The views and opinions expressed here are solely my own, and do not represent this forum or any other entities or persons.
I don't know enough about backpage or the new law so I will just speak to general principles.
Prostitution involving consenting adults is a crime according to classical conservative thought because it is blatant immorality that will bring the curses of GOD on the nation if it is allowed, libertarianism says that it and all other strictly moral issues are beyond the scope of government and should be left to the individual, libertarians will point to the problems caused for prostitutes when driven underground to say that government is only making things worse and conservatives will say that immorality brings consequences and if being a whore is more unpleasant less people will make that choice, if prostitution is going to be illegal then the customers should be subject to the same penalties as the whores and pimps but usually they aren't, it is a question that should be left to the states or local jurisdictions.
Prostitution of underage children should be illegal since they are not yet responsible, the legal age of consent exists for valid practical reasons, you can argue about where it should be set but there is a lower limit that you can't breach without being a pervert.
If someone facilitates underage prostitution after being alerted to it the site should be shut down and they should go to jail, if they do the same for ordinary prostitution in a jurisdiction that outlaws it then they should also be shut down and they should go to jail.
Never attempt to teach a pig to sing; it wastes your time and annoys the pig.
Robert Heinlein
Give a man an inch and right away he thinks he's a ruler
Groucho Marx
I love mankind…it’s people I can’t stand.
Linus, from the Peanuts comic
You cannot have liberty without morality and morality without faith
Alexis de Torqueville
Those who fail to learn from the past are condemned to repeat it.
Those who learn from the past are condemned to watch everybody else repeat it
A Zero Hedge comment
Not much. eBay has a program called VeRO (Verified Rights Owner) which means they'll cooperate with anyone who claims to have the rights to a copyright. A lot pf brand names (Tiffany, Coach, Ralph Lauren....etc) have a relationship with eBay that allows them to pull down listings. Other sites (iOffer comes to mind) are bumped way down in search results because they refuse to comply with the take-down requests.
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